Cody Allen to Angels...

[notin]

It's getting a little late in the game for the Pirates to trade him this offseason, of course.

 

Not really. There’s still plenty of free agents left. Cervelli’s propensity for concussions is another matter...

[Kimmi]

Take a look at the sequence of posts with Harmony about a possible trade of Vazquez to the Pirates for a reliever, which was raised by notin and continued by me.

 

Harmony basically scoffs at the idea because of Vazquez being blocked by Cervelli. I tried to point out that the Pirates might be motivated to trade Cervelli because of his cost. Harmony responds that the Pirates don't have the same problems with luxury tax that the Red Sox do. I suggested that if the Pirates don't trade Cervelli this offseason they'll probably trade him at the deadline, because he's in the last year of his contract. Harmony responds that the Red Sox might also trade Bogaerts and Porcello at the deadline for the same reason.

 

It seems that when you disagree with him, Harmony has a habit of taking shots at the Red Sox rather than engaging you on your points. It's a bit childish, in my opinion.

 

I can see why you would feel this way, and you don't have to defend yourself. I was not trying to take sides, but rather just trying to let Harmony know that I'm glad he is posting here.

 

I would do the same for you.

[Kimmi]

$11.5 is a lot of money for the Pirates, and it has nothing to do with luxury taxes.

 

They will likely trade him, even if they are in a race for the playoffs.

 

I just hope it's not to us.

 

I have never felt the need to improve at the catching position.

 

If this team has any holes, catching is not one of them, IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

I can see why you would feel this way, and you don't have to defend yourself. I was not trying to take sides, but rather just trying to let Harmony know that I'm glad he is posting here.

 

I would do the same for you.

 

You are a very nice person.

 

And Harmony is a nice guy. I just think he likes to take shots at the Sox and their fans a little more than he cares to admit.

[dgalehouse]

You are a very nice person.

 

And Harmony is a nice guy. I just think he likes to take shots at the Sox and their fans a little more than he cares to admit.

 

Harmony is " The Cooler " . It is his job to tamper down all irrational exuberance and unrealistic expectations.

[Bellhorn04]

Harmony is " The Cooler " . It is his job to tamper down all irrational exuberance and unrealistic expectations.

 

Yeah, he tries to keep us in line. And sometimes we have to keep him in line. No one gets a free pass here.

[harmony]

Yeah, he tries to keep us in line. And sometimes we have to keep him in line. No one gets a free pass here.

Fair enough.

[notin]

Ok here’s a fictional un-rumored 3-team trade that can be shredded using Steamer and fWAR and steamers at war.

 

Atlanta gets Eric Thames (1 yr $6mill)

Milwaukee gets Brock Holt (1 yr $3.3mill)

Boston gets Arodys Vizcaino (1 yr $4.8mill)

 

The Braves are looking to upgrade over Adam Duvall in LF. The Brewers get the infield help they are reportedly looking for. And the Sox get a closer who is exactly DD’s type - an oft-injured flamethrower.

 

The biggest downside is Thames is right-handed, meaning a poor platoon option with Duvall. I doubt Atlanta views Holt as a strong side platoon for a corner OF spot, hence the third team. Atlanta could use switch-hitting Johan Camargo that way and use Holt as the bench role and Milwaukee could be cut from this deal altogether...

Edited January 22, 2019 by notin

[moonslav59]

Ok here’s a fictional un-rumored 3-team trade that can be shredded using Steamer and fWAR and steamers at war.

 

Atlanta gets Eric Thames (1 yr $6mill)

Milwaukee gets Brock Holt (1 yr $3.3mill)

Boston gets Arodys Vizcaino (1 yr $4.8mill)

 

The Braves are looking to upgrade over Adam Duvall in LF. The Brewers get the infield help they are reportedly looking for. And the Sox get a closer who is exactly DD’s type - an oft-injured flamethrower.

 

The biggest downside is Thames is right-handed, meaning a poor platoon option with Duvall. I doubt Atlanta views Holt as a strong side platoon for a corner OF spot, hence the third team. Atlanta could use switch-hitting Johan Camargo that way and use Holt as the bench role and Milwaukee could be cut from this deal altogether...

 

I think this might be the first winter I haven't suggested trading Holt. It makes more sense to trade Nunez. His salary is a little higher and his health is now a bigger concern than Holt's. For those reasons, he'd also bring back less than Holt.

 

I think Holt is a better defender than Nunez at 2B, which is likely where our utility IF'er will be needed most. If Pedey never comes back we may need Holt FT at 2B.

 

Last year we used Nunez 10 times more at 3B than Holt, but only about 3:2 at 2B. I'm not sure DD would like the idea of relying on Nunez FT at 2B, but I suppose we could us Lin or trade for another Kinsler type, if needed.

 

Out of the 3 players with salaries between $3-6M (Nunez, Holt & Moreland), Holt is the one other teams want or need most.

 

I'd hate to trade Holt, but our pen seems more in need than our utility IF situation.

 

I thinks this type of deal could happen.

 

[notin]

I think this might be the first winter I haven't suggested trading Holt. It makes more sense to trade Nunez. His salary is a little higher and his health is now a bigger concern than Holt's. For those reasons, he'd also bring back less than Holt.

 

I think Holt is a better defender than Nunez at 2B, which is likely where our utility IF'er will be needed most. If Pedey never comes back we may need Holt FT at 2B.

 

Last year we used Nunez 10 times more at 3B than Holt, but only about 3:2 at 2B. I'm not sure DD would like the idea of relying on Nunez FT at 2B, but I suppose we could us Lin or trade for another Kinsler type, if needed.

 

Out of the 3 players with salaries between $3-6M (Nunez, Holt & Moreland), Holt is the one other teams want or need most.

 

I'd hate to trade Holt, but our pen seems more in need than our utility IF situation.

 

I thinks this type of deal could happen.

 

 

If you were the GM of the Brewers and were currently looking at defending your NL Central title with Corey Spangenburg at 2b, would you prefer Holt or Nunez?

[sk7326]

If you were the GM of the Brewers and were currently looking at defending your NL Central title with Corey Spangenburg at 2b, would you prefer Holt or Nunez?

 

Holt - when healthy he is better at everything ... though Nunez is more capable of catching fire

[notin]

Holt - when healthy he is better at everything ... though Nunez is more capable of catching fire

 

My thought, too. I took the higher floor over the higher ceiling.

 

But either one is fine with me...

[Bellhorn04]

DD likes Holt and Cora loves Nunez. I doubt either is traded. But we shall see.

[notin]

DD likes Holt and Cora loves Nunez. I doubt either is traded. But we shall see.

 

 

They’re both good players, but the Sox do have a bench surplus if Pedroia is healthy. I know DD has hinted at trading a catcher, but that’s a bad idea. What one will get back anything useful?

[Bellhorn04]

They’re both good players, but the Sox do have a bench surplus if Pedroia is healthy. I know DD has hinted at trading a catcher, but that’s a bad idea. What one will get back anything useful?

 

All the answers are coming soon!

[Bellhorn04]

Dave is busy at the moment browsing around the Relief Pitcher Flea Market.

[notin]

I

Ok here’s a fictional un-rumored 3-team trade that can be shredded using Steamer and fWAR and steamers at war.

 

Atlanta gets Eric Thames (1 yr $6mill)

Milwaukee gets Brock Holt (1 yr $3.3mill)

Boston gets Arodys Vizcaino (1 yr $4.8mill)

 

The Braves are looking to upgrade over Adam Duvall in LF. The Brewers get the infield help they are reportedly looking for. And the Sox get a closer who is exactly DD’s type - an oft-injured flamethrower.

 

The biggest downside is Thames is right-handed, meaning a poor platoon option with Duvall. I doubt Atlanta views Holt as a strong side platoon for a corner OF spot, hence the third team. Atlanta could use switch-hitting Johan Camargo that way and use Holt as the bench role and Milwaukee could be cut from this deal altogether...

 

And then the Braves go and sign Nick Markakis, ruining my glorious attempt to pry a closer from them for a utility infielder...

[notin]

Dave is busy at the moment browsing around the Relief Pitcher Flea Market.

 

 

If he comes out of it with a slightly used Justin Wilson and a near-mint condition Nick Vincent, I won’t mind...

[moonslav59]

If you were the GM of the Brewers and were currently looking at defending your NL Central title with Corey Spangenburg at 2b, would you prefer Holt or Nunez?

 

Holt, unless maybe I knew Nunez's knee was 100%.

 

(I agreed that Holt will bring back more. The added money on Nunez's contract makes it even worse.

 

[moonslav59]

They’re both good players, but the Sox do have a bench surplus if Pedroia is healthy. I know DD has hinted at trading a catcher, but that’s a bad idea. What one will get back anything useful?

 

IMO, only Vazquez, but he's the one we need the most. Leon can't catch 60-70% and I don't want Swihart catching anymore than 5% of the games, let alone 30%+.

 

To me, the mid ranged contract players we can afford to trade the most (Moreland and Nunez) are NOT surprisingly the ones nobody wants or won't bring us back the quality pen arm we need. Throwing in Swihart or a mid ranged prospect might help a little, but we won't get anything very useful for them.

 

Trading Holt or Porcello could get us a nice return, but I'm not sure we can afford to lose them- certainly not Porcello and maybe not Holt, depending on the luck of Pedey not tweaking his knee again. I mean, Pedey only lasted how long last year? Do we really want to rely on Nunez's knee and Lin at 2B and back up 3B this year?

 

I guess it comes down to how bad you think our current closer is vs that choice at 2B. We aren't trading Porcello. I doubt we trade Moreland or Nunez for the reasons I just gave. Swihart will not bring a closer, unless we add Chavis and Shawaryn or something similar.

 

Tough call, but if the budget is the $40M line, then trading is the only option vs status quo.

 

[Kimmi]

Dave is busy at the moment browsing around the Relief Pitcher Flea Market.

 

Dave is clearly trying to win me over.

[Larry Cook]

We have a chance to go back to back! This is insane that we are worried about the 40 million dollar threshold when this team has a fantastic chance to repeat!

 

We have brought back 23 of 25 guys and could potentially get the 24th, but desperate Dave is firmly entrenched as a Wal-Mart greeter while thinking about heading over to the dollar tree for a reliever or two.

 

Dave, please strap on that depends diaper, man up and call kimbrel’s agent. We need a closer!

[moonslav59]

We have a chance to go back to back! This is insane that we are worried about the 40 million dollar threshold when this team has a fantastic chance to repeat!

 

We have brought back 23 of 25 guys and could potentially get the 24th, but desperate Dave is firmly entrenched as a Wal-Mart greeter while thinking about heading over to the dollar tree for a reliever or two.

 

Dave, please strap on that depends diaper, man up and call kimbrel’s agent. We need a closer!

 

One could argue we already went beyond insanity last year by spending $40M more than anyone else and then spending nearly the same again the next year, only to get some fans pissed off you didn't spend more.

 

There's no Wal-mart greeter in this story.

[notin]

One could argue we already went beyond insanity last year by spending $40M more than anyone else and then spending nearly the same again the next year, only to get some fans pissed off you didn't spend more.

 

There's no Wal-mart greeter in this story.

 

 

Not to mention, the Kimbrel types are so not Dombrowski.

 

 

His history is more being the guy who takes the rags pitcher and turns him into the riches one, with pitchers like Trevor Hoffman, Rob Nen, Matt Mantei, and Joaquin Benoit and a few others...

[kenmeister]

 

Dave, please strap on that depends diaper, man up and call kimbrel’s agent. We need a closer!

 

I'm really concerned about Kimbrel's ability to pitch quality innings going forwards. I don't think he's the answer. I actually prefer the trade solution (see my Jose Leclerc crusade from the other thread).

[moonslav59]

I'm really concerned about Kimbrel's ability to pitch quality innings going forwards. I don't think he's the answer. I actually prefer the trade solution (see my Jose Leclerc crusade from the other thread).

 

I agree.

 

Kimbrel may still have several good years left in him, but the gamble is too big... bigger than the gamble to go with what we have.

 

[Bellhorn04]

We have a chance to go back to back! This is insane that we are worried about the 40 million dollar threshold when this team has a fantastic chance to repeat!

 

We have brought back 23 of 25 guys and could potentially get the 24th, but desperate Dave is firmly entrenched as a Wal-Mart greeter while thinking about heading over to the dollar tree for a reliever or two.

 

Dave, please strap on that depends diaper, man up and call kimbrel’s agent. We need a closer!

 

You should be talking to John Henry if you want Kimbrel that much.

[notin]

You should be talking to John Henry if you want Kimbrel that much.

 

 

Give Kimbrel 1 year / $20 mill and call it an off-season...

[Kimmi]

We have a chance to go back to back! This is insane that we are worried about the 40 million dollar threshold when this team has a fantastic chance to repeat!

 

We have brought back 23 of 25 guys and could potentially get the 24th, but desperate Dave is firmly entrenched as a Wal-Mart greeter while thinking about heading over to the dollar tree for a reliever or two.

 

Dave, please strap on that depends diaper, man up and call kimbrel’s agent. We need a closer!

 

I am one who is fine with the discount relievers and reigning in the spending, but I'm rather surprised that Henry is deciding to go that route now, if that is indeed what he's planning to do. The timing of it just doesn't make any sense to me.

[cp176]

IMO, only Vazquez, but he's the one we need the most. Leon can't catch 60-70% and I don't want Swihart catching anymore than 5% of the games, let alone 30%+.

 

To me, the mid ranged contract players we can afford to trade the most (Moreland and Nunez) are NOT surprisingly the ones nobody wants or won't bring us back the quality pen arm we need. Throwing in Swihart or a mid ranged prospect might help a little, but we won't get anything very useful for them.

 

Trading Holt or Porcello could get us a nice return, but I'm not sure we can afford to lose them- certainly not Porcello and maybe not Holt, depending on the luck of Pedey not tweaking his knee again. I mean, Pedey only lasted how long last year? Do we really want to rely on Nunez's knee and Lin at 2B and back up 3B this year?

 

I guess it comes down to how bad you think our current closer is vs that choice at 2B. We aren't trading Porcello. I doubt we trade Moreland or Nunez for the reasons I just gave. Swihart will not bring a closer, unless we add Chavis and Shawaryn or something similar.

 

Tough call, but if the budget is the $40M line, then trading is the only option vs status quo.

 

 

Curiosity only here Moon but why do you think that Vazquez is the pick of our litter? I don't see it. I see absolutely no difference in the abilities of Leon and Vazquez. If the call was simply about which I felt was the better catcher, I go with Leon.