The Pen

[Kimmi]

If the plan is to wait until we are having bullpen problems and then trade prospects for a reliever who is probably not as good as most of those we passed on as free agents , I don't especially care for it . Not a very proactive approach.

 

My apologies to you for promising that Dombrowski would sign a closer that you would be happy with. I was sure that he would sign a big name closer because that's what he does. Obviously, I was wrong.

 

On the bright side, Dombrowski has earned some brownie points with me this offseason. Go Dave! I know that matters not to you, but believe me, Dombrowski is sleeping better at night knowing this.

[Maxbialystock]

My apologies to you for promising that Dombrowski would sign a closer that you would be happy with. I was sure that he would sign a big name closer because that's what he does. Obviously, I was wrong.

 

On the bright side, Dombrowski has earned some brownie points with me this offseason. Go Dave! I know that matters not to you, but believe me, Dombrowski is sleeping better at night knowing this.

 

I hope you mean DD's unwillingness to meet Kimbrel's agent's demands. In the past three years with the Sox Kimbrel has accumulated a total WAR of 6.7 and total salary of $37.5M. That's roughly $6M per WAR of 1, which is insane and way over-priced.

 

In the last two seasons Chris Sale has accumulated a total WAR of 12.9 and salary of $24.5M--or about $2M per WAR of 1. For his career Sale has a total WAR of 43.1 and total salary of $44.9M.

 

Sale is underpaid. Kimbrel is already ridiculously overpaid and wants more of the same with of course zero guarantee of performance unless growing a beard is a worthwhile asset.

 

If Wright is healthy--a big if--I see a pretty good core with Wright, Barnes, Brasier, and maybe Hembree, Poyner, and Smith.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope you mean DD's unwillingness to meet Kimbrel's agent's demands. In the past three years with the Sox Kimbrel has accumulated a total WAR of 6.7 and total salary of $37.5M. That's roughly $6M per WAR of 1, which is insane and way over-priced.

 

Not over-priced for a good relief pitcher. If we could get Kimbrel back for 3/37.5 that would be a steal. Not happening of course.

[Maxbialystock]

Not over-priced for a good relief pitcher. If we could get Kimbrel back for 3/37.5 that would be a steal. Not happening of course.

 

You could be right. I'm just still on my rant.

[cp176]

I hope you mean DD's unwillingness to meet Kimbrel's agent's demands. In the past three years with the Sox Kimbrel has accumulated a total WAR of 6.7 and total salary of $37.5M. That's roughly $6M per WAR of 1, which is insane and way over-priced.

 

In the last two seasons Chris Sale has accumulated a total WAR of 12.9 and salary of $24.5M--or about $2M per WAR of 1. For his career Sale has a total WAR of 43.1 and total salary of $44.9M.

 

Sale is underpaid. Kimbrel is already ridiculously overpaid and wants more of the same with of course zero guarantee of performance unless growing a beard is a worthwhile asset.

 

If Wright is healthy--a big if--I see a pretty good core with Wright, Barnes, Brasier, and maybe Hembree, Poyner, and Smith.

 

Oh Max - if the guys you mentioned there represent all we have to offer in the bullpen, i think that we are in some serious trouble. i look for at least 2 more arms to come out of camp. Thornburg could be one of them.

[Kimmi]

I hope you mean DD's unwillingness to meet Kimbrel's agent's demands. In the past three years with the Sox Kimbrel has accumulated a total WAR of 6.7 and total salary of $37.5M. That's roughly $6M per WAR of 1, which is insane and way over-priced.

 

In the last two seasons Chris Sale has accumulated a total WAR of 12.9 and salary of $24.5M--or about $2M per WAR of 1. For his career Sale has a total WAR of 43.1 and total salary of $44.9M.

 

Sale is underpaid. Kimbrel is already ridiculously overpaid and wants more of the same with of course zero guarantee of performance unless growing a beard is a worthwhile asset.

 

If Wright is healthy--a big if--I see a pretty good core with Wright, Barnes, Brasier, and maybe Hembree, Poyner, and Smith.

 

Yes, I do, in part, mean Dombrowski's unwillingness to meet Kimbrel's demands. More generally, I'm am happy to see Dombrowski not spending big bucks on the BP.

 

I think we will be pleasantly surprised with our pen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dombrowski’s biggest bugaboos prior to last season have been his bullpens. The Sox showed that in 2013 when they beat his Tigers squad with multiple comebacks. Last year, your pen was good with the late hammer in Kimbrel. Come the playoffs, Kimbrel was tipping his pitches and Cora used some starters plus some ridiculous performances from Barnes and Kelly to create a lights out pen. Kelly has left and you’re not going to use starters in the pen for the regular season. Kimbrel being gone from the regular season is going to be significant. Now, I’m not saying Kimbrel is going to be great come 2019, just saying removing a sub 1 WHIP, high strikeout, 90-ish percent save conversion closer with his credibility is not going to be easy. Even if Barnes becomes a reliable closer, you’re then losing a reliable setup man in the process. In today’s game where starters go 5-6IP, having only one proven reliable reliever is something most rebuilding teams have, not a team headed for playoff contention. I think most people here are going to be up in arms over the state of the pen, and that’s even with good performances from Brasier and Barnes, which is far from guaranteed.

[notin]

I think there’s a pretty good chance that you Yankee fans are equally disappointed in your bullpen. Sure you have all the high-priced talented arms, but they’re being managed by Aaron Boone. That’s like buying a brand new Ferrari and paying for every available option and tuning the engine for high performance.

 

And then having it driven by Dorko the Chimp...

[Slasher9]

oh no! our bullpen! does this mean that the yankees will win more than 1 game in the ALDS this year?????

[Slasher9]

DD just had a f***ing parade and we danced on your infield to celebrate ALDS clinch. and jacksonianmarch is calling out DD. Sad!

[jacksonianmarch]

DD just had a f***ing parade and we danced on your infield to celebrate ALDS clinch. and jacksonianmarch is calling out DD. Sad!

 

And then your GM watched two good pen arms walk away without any improvements brought in. 2019 is different than 2018, or do you not realize that?

[cp176]

DD just had a f***ing parade and we danced on your infield to celebrate ALDS clinch. and jacksonianmarch is calling out DD. Sad!

 

I agree with you here Slasher but you do know that DD gets called out for something here daily by his beloved followers on Talksox.

[Bellhorn04]

And then your GM watched two good pen arms walk away without any improvements brought in. 2019 is different than 2018, or do you not realize that?

 

They're hoping from improvements from within and from the dumpster dives. We'll see how it plays out.

[notin]

They're hoping from improvements from within and from the dumpster dives. We'll see how it plays out.

 

And by bucking the bullpen-dependent trend by having a 5-man deep rotation...

[notin]

And then your GM watched two good pen arms walk away without any improvements brought in. 2019 is different than 2018, or do you not realize that?

 

 

We do. We also realize every time DD acquires a reliever, that player goes on the DL before the phone hangs up. (My theory is other teams are shipping relief pitchers to us via UPS. Ever seen how those guys handle “fragile” packages?)

 

The good news is, we still have all those relievers, and hey, no wear and tear on their arms in the past two seasons. But it’s sort of like DD acquired his replacements for Kimbrel and Kelly prematurely in anticipation of this off-season. Back when he still had a farm system to trade from...

[mvp 78]

And then your GM watched two good pen arms walk away without any improvements brought in. 2019 is different than 2018, or do you not realize that?

 

Joe Kelly was a good regular season pitcher? You'd want him on the Yankees?

[moonslav59]

Joe Kelly was a good regular season pitcher? You'd want him on the Yankees?

 

Think of all the love Jacko bestowed on Kelly last year...

[harmony]

One who got away:

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/angels-righty-ty-buttrey-on-how-he-turned-a-corner/

Edited February 27, 2019 by harmony

[Slasher9]

And then your GM watched two good pen arms walk away without any improvements brought in. 2019 is different than 2018, or do you not realize that?

 

won the division 3 years in a row.

beat the yankees in the ALDS and celebrated on their infield (again).

won the world series.

had a parade.

DD (and the FO) can have a "pass" from me this season for not resigning an aging leprechaun and joe fightclub kelly. i wish he resigned Kelly but understand the constraints....

[mvp 78]

One that got away:

 

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/angels-righty-ty-buttrey-on-how-he-turned-a-corner/

 

Not convinced that 1.63 FIP is going to hold up.

[notin]

Not convinced that 1.63 FIP is going to hold up.

 

 

16 career IP not enough of a sample size for you?

[mvp 78]

16 career IP not enough of a sample size for you?

 

I regard it with the same esteem as his ERA of 45.00 from 9/19 - 9/30.

[Kimmi]

Ut oh.

 

Thornburg's first 2 batters faced: Single, HR

[Bellhorn04]

Ut oh.

 

Thornburg's first 2 batters faced: Single, HR

 

Double ut oh - Brewer didn't fare much better.

[jacksonianmarch]

Spring stats don’t matter. I am puzzled, though, as to why most here think the Sox are going to have a good pen. You’ve got guys with devastating injuries with no idea how they’d return (Thorburg). Players with no track record coming off a good 3 months (Brasier). Players with a long track record of crap performance (Hembree). You’ve got a good reliever elevating to a new role he hasn’t proven he can handle (Barnes). How in the world are you all expecting good things out of this universally panned pen squad? It’s not like your rotation is the 2005 White Sox. The average IP for your starters per start last year was around 5.6. That means you’re pen, on average, needs to get 10 outs per game. Outside of blind hometown, put something out there that shows this squad can be held together enough to not slip significantly in the standings

[Bellhorn04]

Spring stats don’t matter. I am puzzled, though, as to why most here think the Sox are going to have a good pen. You’ve got guys with devastating injuries with no idea how they’d return (Thorburg). Players with no track record coming off a good 3 months (Brasier). Players with a long track record of crap performance (Hembree). You’ve got a good reliever elevating to a new role he hasn’t proven he can handle (Barnes). How in the world are you all expecting good things out of this universally panned pen squad? It’s not like your rotation is the 2005 White Sox. The average IP for your starters per start last year was around 5.6. That means you’re pen, on average, needs to get 10 outs per game. Outside of blind hometown, put something out there that shows this squad can be held together enough to not slip significantly in the standings

 

For me it's about having some faith in DD and the organization that they know what they're doing.

 

I'm also of the belief that DD hasn't closed the door on making an acquisition if that looks to be necessary.

[S5Dewey]

Spring stats don’t matter. I am puzzled, though, as to why most here think the Sox are going to have a good pen. You’ve got guys with devastating injuries with no idea how they’d return (Thorburg). Players with no track record coming off a good 3 months (Brasier). Players with a long track record of crap performance (Hembree). You’ve got a good reliever elevating to a new role he hasn’t proven he can handle (Barnes). How in the world are you all expecting good things out of this universally panned pen squad? It’s not like your rotation is the 2005 White Sox. The average IP for your starters per start last year was around 5.6. That means you’re pen, on average, needs to get 10 outs per game. Outside of blind hometown, put something out there that shows this squad can be held together enough to not slip significantly in the standings

 

As little as I like to engage someone whom I think is (unknowingly) trolling...

 

Jax has had a lot to say about the alleged comparative inferiority of the Sox offense, defense, starting pitching, and the BP as viewed through the pinstriped glasses. Now I'm waiting to see how he can justify Aaron Boone being a better manager than Alex Cora. Or are the Yankees so much better than the Sox in every facet of the game that it just won't matter that Cora is undoubtedly a better manager?

[jacksonianmarch]

Boone is clearly inferior to Cora. I also don’t think the Sox offense is inferior to NY’s. I’ve made a case that our ridiculous injuries in 2018 led to our offense being inferior and the projected health should lead to equivalence. Ive also said that starting staff to starting staff gets and edge towards the Sox solely based on the left arm of Chris sale and his health.

[notin]

It’s not like your rotation is the 2005 White Sox. The average IP for your starters per start last year was around 5.6. That means you’re pen, on average, needs to get 10 outs per game. Outside of blind hometown, put something out there that shows this squad can be held together enough to not slip significantly in the standings

 

That number includes the starts by Johnson, Velasquez, Pomeranz, etc. that actually totaled about 1/4 of the Sox games. While we all expect some starts from the depth starters, do you still think it’s going to be around 25% again?

[BillyWilliams]

Ut oh.

 

Thornburg's first 2 batters faced: Single, HR

 

As I said, you may have to get used to it!