2019 HOF ballot

[moonslav59]

The election of Baines is causing as bit of a furor, deservedly so. Good ballplayer, but nowhere near the HOF.

 

It's nothing short of insanity.

[mvp 78]

People on the committee:

Hall of Famers: Roberto Alomar, Bert Blyleven, Pat Gillick, Tony La Russa, Greg Maddux, Joe Morgan, John Schuerholz, Ozzie Smith, Joe Torre

 

Executives: Al Avila (Tigers), Paul Beeston (Blue Jays), Andy MacPhail (Phillies), Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox)

 

Media: Hirdt (the only repeater from the HOC), Tim Kurkjian (ESPN), Claire Smith (ESPN)

 

As I noted in my election preview on Friday, several of the candidates had connections to the voters, an inescapable fact of longevity within an insular industry but also an inevitable reminder of the old Veterans Committees’ history of cronyism, most notably from the 1960s through the 1980s. Baines, who was drafted by the White Sox with the overall number one pick in 1977, spent three separate stretches on the South Side (1980-1989, 1996-1997, 2000-2001), all but the first year of which were within Reinsdorf’s still-ongoing tenure of ownership. Additionally, he was managed by La Russa both there and in Oakland (1992), and was in Baltimore while Gillick was GM (1997-1998).

[Kimmi]

Just shows what a joke the MLB HOF election process is.

 

Yup.

[Kimmi]

It's nothing short of insanity.

 

It's a shame because it cheapens the HOF for those who are truly worth of being in.

[moonslav59]

It's a shame because it cheapens the HOF for those who are truly worth of being in.

 

It was already cheapened, but now it's a comedy.

 

[notin]

So if Baines gets in for having 2,866 hits, does this open the door for Johnny Damon, Bill Buckner and Al Oliver?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

So if Baines gets in for having 2,866 hits, does this open the door for Johnny Damon, Bill Buckner and Al Oliver?

 

Good point.

 

The problem started before Baines. Phil Rizzuto doesn't belong in the HOF. And Jim Rice doesn't belong in the HOF. I don't know how someone can defend Jim Rice being in the HOF but not Dale Murphy or Don Mattingly.

 

And then we have the interesting case of Dwight Evans.....

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Is 200 wins, 2 x Cy Young and numerous All Star appearances first ballot-worthy? I don't know, I'm asking.

 

I think so. Halladay was pretty special and spent part of his career pitching through the steroids era. Pedro was remarkable for what he did in an era of hyped offense (PEDs) and I would think a similar argument applies to Halladay. I would like to see the comparative data on this, however: Halladay v. pitchers who pitched in an era of lower offensive output.

[notin]

Good point.

 

The problem started before Baines. Phil Rizzuto doesn't belong in the HOF. And Jim Rice doesn't belong in the HOF. .

 

Tony Perez doesn’t belong in the HOF either.

 

But it goes back further than that. Dave Bancroft and Ross Youngs might be the two single worst players in the Hall of Fame....

[Bellhorn04]

I think the Serenity Prayer applies here, or the one about not being able to put the excrement back in the equine.

[moonslav59]

There's no way to ever boot any of these guys out of the Hall, so there will forever be lame arguments that if one undeserving player made it in, then other similar players should be in, too.

 

The whole thing is a mess. It can't be fixed, except for going forward, but there seems to be no meaningful drive to correct the system.

[Bellhorn04]

There's no way to ever boot any of these guys out of the Hall, so there will forever be lame arguments that if one undeserving player made it in, then other similar players should be in, too.

 

The whole thing is a mess. It can't be fixed, except for going forward, but there seems to be no meaningful drive to correct the system.

 

If they had the guts, they'd divide the Hall into 2 wings, one for the Great and one for the Very Good.

[moonslav59]

If they had the guts, they'd divide the Hall into 2 wings, one for the Great and one for the Very Good.

 

Good.

 

One- The Hall of Fame

 

The other- The Hall of Excellence

 

[mvp 78]

If they had the guts, they'd divide the Hall into 2 wings, one for the Great and one for the Very Good.

 

This is just dumb.

[moonslav59]

This is just dumb.

 

Not any dumber than Baines being in the same hall as Babe Ruth.

[mvp 78]

Good point.

 

The problem started before Baines. Phil Rizzuto doesn't belong in the HOF. And Jim Rice doesn't belong in the HOF. I don't know how someone can defend Jim Rice being in the HOF but not Dale Murphy or Don Mattingly.

 

And then we have the interesting case of Dwight Evans.....

 

Mattingly's JAWS score is 15 less than the average HOF at his position. Rice's in 11 less. He's a better case for the HOF than Mattingly. Rice ended his career with higher WAR than Mattingly. Dale Murphy was a great talent stuck in a second tier town. If he played on the Yankees, he'd be in the HOF for sure. His numbers are similar to Fred Lynn and Kirby Puckett.

 

If I went to the HOF and saw a plaque for Mattingly, Lynn, Murphy, et al I wouldn't be bothered. Anyone deserving of a conversation should be in. They were some of the greatest players of their time. They should be in.

 

Dewey will get in eventually.

[moonslav59]

They were some of the greatest players of their time. They should be in.

 

I guess it's all relative.

 

Many disagree with where the line for "greatness" begins and ends.

[Bellhorn04]

This is just dumb.

 

You think Baines should be in?

[mvp 78]

@NotMrTibbs

 

Net gained/lost votes through 66 ballots (~16.0% of the vote):

 

McGriff +11

Walker +10

Edgar +8

Mussina +8

Vizquel +7

Rolen +5

Schilling +4

Kent +3

Wagner +3

Sheffield +2

Andruw +1

BB/RC +1

-----

Sosa -1

Manny -4

[mvp 78]

You think Baines should be in?

 

You advocating for 2 separate Halls is the single lamest thing I've read on here in a long while. This is like 7:30 AM Sunday radio sports jock filler silliness.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather have 1,000 Harold Baines in the HOF than have to hear or see that old tired "It's not the Hall of Very Good" nonsense ever again.

[moonslav59]

I'd rather have 1,000 Harold Baines in the HOF than have to hear or see that old tired "It's not the Hall of Very Good" nonsense ever again.

 

1,000 Harold Baines's would make the Hall worthless and futile.

 

Just one comes close.

[Bellhorn04]

You advocating for 2 separate Halls is the single lamest thing I've read on here in a long while. This is like 7:30 AM Sunday radio sports jock filler silliness.

 

Ease up man, it was not meant to be a serious proposal. I've already said on this very thread that the Hall is what it is.

[mvp 78]

1,000 Harold Baines's would make the Hall worthless and futile.

 

Just one comes close.

 

Well, then I guess you don't have to worry about it anymore toots.

[mvp 78]

Ease up man, it was not meant to be a serious proposal. I've already said on this very thread that the Hall is what it is.

 

I'd be more sad if the HOF burned down than if Capitol Hill sunk into the middle of the Earth.

[dgalehouse]

Lowering the bar makes it easier for everyone. Except for limbo dancers.

[Kimmi]

If they had the guts, they'd divide the Hall into 2 wings, one for the Great and one for the Very Good.

 

If they had any sense, the Very Good wouldn't be in the Hall to begin with.

 

As Moon says, it's a big mess.

[Northern Star]

If they had any sense, the Very Good wouldn't be in the Hall to begin with.

 

As Moon says, it's a big mess.

 

Agree 100%. I personally don't like these stupid committees that are going back and electing people the writers "missed." One of them has 16 voters, I believe. Way too small to be making these decisions.

[Northern Star]

Another thing that burns me is guys like Santo who are left dangling forever, then finally get elected....after they've died.

[Kimmi]

Agree 100%. I personally don't like these stupid committees that are going back and electing people the writers "missed." One of them has 16 voters, I believe. Way too small to be making these decisions.

 

If they're not good enough to be 1st ballot HOFers, they're not good enough to be in. One and done, either you're in or you're not.