2019 HOF ballot

[Bellhorn04]

If they're not good enough to be 1st ballot HOFers, they're not good enough to be in. One and done, either you're in or you're not.

 

That rule would really trim the present Hall from what it is.

[Northern Star]

That rule would really trim the present Hall from what it is.

 

Probably not a bad thing, tbh.

[Kimmi]

That rule would really trim the present Hall from what it is.

 

Two things about that:

 

1. I think it should be trimmed. As I've said, if people have to debate about whether a player should be in the HOF, then he shouldn't be.

 

2. Some of the players that were not voted in their first year would have been voted in their first year if the players only get one year on the ballot. I really don't understand the point of making a player wait several years to get in if the player is good enough to be in.

[Bellhorn04]

Two things about that:

 

1. I think it should be trimmed. As I've said, if people have to debate about whether a player should be in the HOF, then he shouldn't be.

 

2. Some of the players that were not voted in their first year would have been voted in their first year if the players only get one year on the ballot. I really don't understand the point of making a player wait several years to get in if the player is good enough to be in.

 

I really don't know what the answer is. I think any rules we could come up with are going to be arbitrary to some degree. You're always going to get different opinions from different people.

 

We've already heard that one of the voters isn't going to vote for Rivera.

 

Should David Ortiz be in? Schilling? I think they should be, but I realize they are not clear-cut choices.

[Kimmi]

I really don't know what the answer is. I think any rules we could come up with are going to be arbitrary to some degree. You're always going to get different opinions from different people.

 

We've already heard that one of the voters isn't going to vote for Rivera.

 

Should David Ortiz be in? Schilling? I think they should be, but I realize they are not clear-cut choices.

 

That voter who isn't going to vote for Rivera is a problem in and of itself, IMO.

 

As far as Oritz and Schilling are concerned, I would say yes.

 

Is the debate about whether Oritz and Schilling are clear-cut choices baseball related (do they have the numbers?) or is it related to Oritz being a DH and Schilling being a guy whose mouth ticks a lot of people off?

 

I don't think there's really a debate about the former. The latter should not be the reason why a player is not voted in.

[Northern Star]

That voter who isn't going to vote for Rivera is a problem in and of itself, IMO.

 

 

Since he's said he's not voting, he should have his vote taken away.

 

Also, I missed when saves became so easy any MLB pitcher could get them?

 

https://www.telegram.com/news/20181222/bill-ballou-mariano-rivera-not-getting-this-writers-hall-of-fame-vote?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

[Kimmi]

Since he's said he's not voting, he should have his vote taken away.

 

Also, I missed when saves became so easy any MLB pitcher could get them?

 

https://www.telegram.com/news/20181222/bill-ballou-mariano-rivera-not-getting-this-writers-hall-of-fame-vote?template=ampart&__twitter_impression=true

 

Saves may or may not be easy to come by. It depends on the exact situation of the save.

 

The problem is that the save is a terrible stat. Anyone who is trying to assess a pitcher for any reason should not be looking at saves as the primary stat, or even as one of the most important stats.

[Northern Star]

Saves may or may not be easy to come by. It depends on the exact situation of the save.

 

The problem is that the save is a terrible stat. Anyone who is trying to assess a pitcher for any reason should not be looking at saves as the primary stat, or even as one of the most important stats.

 

So does this mean closers shouldn't be in the hall, since saves is usually their best stat? Is there criteria that they can be hall-worthy on, given how little they pitch relative to SPs?

[Bellhorn04]

So does this mean closers shouldn't be in the hall, since saves is usually their best stat? Is there criteria that they can be hall-worthy on, given how little they pitch relative to SPs?

 

Just look at Rivera's numbers.

[notin]

So does this mean closers shouldn't be in the hall, since saves is usually their best stat? Is there criteria that they can be hall-worthy on, given how little they pitch relative to SPs?

 

I do find it hypocritical that closers are considered for the Hall more readily than DHs...

[Kimmi]

So does this mean closers shouldn't be in the hall, since saves is usually their best stat? Is there criteria that they can be hall-worthy on, given how little they pitch relative to SPs?

 

Because 'relief pitcher' is an actual role in MLB, then relievers (not just closers) should be admitted or not admitted to the Hall based on how good they are in comparison to other relievers. It's not fair to compare a relief pitcher to a starter. Relievers have to be compared to other relievers.

[Kimmi]

I do find it hypocritical that closers are considered for the Hall more readily than DHs...

 

A DH falls in a category similar to relief pitchers. A DH should not be penalized for not playing defense.

 

And yes, DHs should absolutely be considered for the HOF.

[Northern Star]

Because 'relief pitcher' is an actual role in MLB, then relievers (not just closers) should be admitted or not admitted to the Hall based on how good they are in comparison to other relievers. It's not fair to compare a relief pitcher to a starter. Relievers have to be compared to other relievers.

 

So what criteria would you use, given their pitching sample size is relatively small?

[Kimmi]

So what criteria would you use, given their pitching sample size is relatively small?

 

In terms of simpler or more traditional stats, K/W ratio, WHIP, and IP are good places to start.

 

There are many excellent advanced stats to use. WAR and FIP/xFIP are good places to start.

 

For relief pitchers, Meltdowns and Shutdowns are much better stats to use over the traditional Saves or Blown Saves.

 

As always, the more stats one looks at, the better.

[notin]

I'd rather have 1,000 Harold Baines in the HOF than have to hear or see that old tired "It's not the Hall of Very Good" nonsense ever again.

 

 

Maybe you should counter with “It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Greatness!!”