And the off season begins (2018-19)

[dgalehouse]

We are on pace to way outspend the next highest spending teams in MLB from 2018-2019.

 

Despite all that, we have a weak area, as do all other teams.

 

I don't think we can just assume we'll keep throwing money at every position in need of an upgrade. GMs make these choices all the time, and maybe DD feels like we'll have a winner in 2019 without a glitzy closer.

If you have to have a weak area ( I don't think that is a given) , I don't want it to be the bullpen. And , assuming the Yankees get Machado, what exactly is their weak area ?

[S5Dewey]

If you have to have a weak area ( I don't think that is a given) , I don't want it to be the bullpen. And , assuming the Yankees get Machado, what exactly is their weak area ?

 

IMO if they pick up Machado their weak area might be the clubhouse... but what do I know?

[dgalehouse]

IMO if they pick up Machado their weak area might be the clubhouse... but what do I know?

 

I don't know. I think you might be overrating that aspect.

[jacksonianmarch]

IMO if they pick up Machado their weak area might be the clubhouse... but what do I know?

 

That's garbage and you know it

[moonslav59]

If you have to have a weak area ( I don't think that is a given) , I don't want it to be the bullpen. And , assuming the Yankees get Machado, what exactly is their weak area ?

 

For argument's sake, what area would you weaken (via trade) on the Sox to improve the pen, assuming we have a spending limit?

 

The Yanks are weak at 1B, SS until Didi returns and our rotation, defense, base running and offense is better than theirs. Also, the Yanks have some great young talent, but they are relying on more post-prime players than we are at key positions:

38 Sabathia

36 Happ

35 Gardner

 

 

It would be nice to be as good or better than every competitor at every position, but we've already spent more than anyone else to get where we are, I just think it's a bit too much to expect we just go out and buy more shiny objects, so we can be the best everywhere.

[notin]

If you have to have a weak area ( I don't think that is a given) , I don't want it to be the bullpen. And , assuming the Yankees get Machado, what exactly is their weak area ?

 

 

Health.

 

They’re not all injury prone types to miss 3 months each. But they do have their share of accident prone types who might miss a few weeks.

 

There’s also a chance of them being susceptible more so to right handed pitching with that righty heavy lineup, but I’m not overly convinced. Machado-Judge-Stanton isn’t going to be a breeze for RHP.

 

But also - they don’t have Machado yet. Have they even made an offer?

[jacksonianmarch]

If we get Machado, then 1b will end up as either Voit/Bird or Andujar. So while it is a question-mark now, it is likely to end up a plus, especially compared to Moreland. SS will start off with Tulo, who I absolutely believe is a minus compared to Bogaerts. Once we get Didi back, we get back to even with you. Sabathia right now is a big question mark, I agree. Heck, the guy just had a stent put in his heart. Happ showed no signs of slowdown and was still throwing hard come season's end. His career renaissance has been great and may continue. If it doesn't, then he's a two year mistake.

[dgalehouse]

I can't answer that. I don't agree with the premise . If I need to choose between fixing the furnace and buying food, I can't do it. Both are needed. I have to come up with the money to do both. It might be hard for me , but it is not hard for those who own MLB franchises. They do have the money already. Luxury taxes and resets are just their way of working around the lack of a salary cap . I don't necessarily blame them, but I just don't feel like playing along. Don't tell me that we can't afford a closer without giving up our shortstop.

[notin]

Don't tell me that we can't afford a closer without giving up our shortstop.

 

That might be reality. But teams do things like that all the time. Just because the Sox are among the biggest spenders doesn’t make them immune to budgets. The Dodgers also made a deal this off-season to unload salary. They’re notorious big spenders as well...

[jacksonianmarch]

The easiest plan if you HAD to jettison money is to move on from Bradley and allocate his $8+ mil predicted salary and then get a closer with that plus a little more. You can move Betts to CF, Beni to RF and JD to LF. That gets Pearce into all games and allows for the sox to potentially see Chavis by mid season to platoon with Moreland.

[moonslav59]

The easiest plan if you HAD to jettison money is to move on from Bradley and allocate his $8+ mil predicted salary and then get a closer with that plus a little more. You can move Betts to CF, Beni to RF and JD to LF. That gets Pearce into all games and allows for the sox to potentially see Chavis by mid season to platoon with Moreland.

 

We could possibly trade 2 of the 3 salaries, if anyone wants them, to come up with the $8M or so...

 

$6.5M Moreland (Go with Pearce FT or give him help with Swihart/Chavis...)

 

$5M Nunez (Pray for Pedey or Holt to be enough)

 

$4.5M Vazquez (Go with Leon and Swihart and many prayers)

 

I'm assuming a lot here, but I'd rather do without Nunez & Moreland than JBJ.

 

 

[moonslav59]

The easiest plan if you HAD to jettison money is to move on from Bradley and allocate his $8+ mil predicted salary and then get a closer with that plus a little more. You can move Betts to CF, Beni to RF and JD to LF. That gets Pearce into all games and allows for the sox to potentially see Chavis by mid season to platoon with Moreland.

 

They could trade Porcello & Vazquez for something decent and sign Kimbrel & Grandal.

[notin]

They could trade Porcello & Vazquez for something decent and sign Kimbrel & Grandal.

 

 

Like my thoughts, this assumes Grandal works really cheap...

[moonslav59]

Like my thoughts, this assumes Grandal works really cheap...

 

Or, pay a little more for Grandal and sign Ottavino not CK.

 

If we get something decent for Porcello & Vaz, it could work out.

[oldtimer]

I can't answer that. I don't agree with the premise . If I need to choose between fixing the furnace and buying food, I can't do it. Both are needed. I have to come up with the money to do both. It might be hard for me , but it is not hard for those who own MLB franchises. They do have the money already. Luxury taxes and resets are just their way of working around the lack of a salary cap . I don't necessarily blame them, but I just don't feel like playing along. Don't tell me that we can't afford a closer without giving up our shortstop.

 

Your analogy of furnace or food begs the question. Do you need tenderloin or will strip steak do? Any damn fool with the thickest wallet can win if they spend without limit. It takes a GM and owner who can make smart decisions to both win and stay within the limit. We still are outspending other clubs. Still, the impacts of Panda's contract and now maybe Pedroia's are handing over our head.

[Bellhorn04]

Your analogy of furnace or food begs the question. Do you need tenderloin or will strip steak do? Any damn fool with the thickest wallet can win if they spend without limit. It takes a GM and owner who can make smart decisions to both win and stay within the limit. We still are outspending other clubs. Still, the impacts of Panda's contract and now maybe Pedroia's are handing over our head.

 

You can't really compare the ownership of an MLB franchise to the ownership of a house. Many of the rules of common sense are out the door with the former. By some standards we spent foolishly last year, going more than $40 million over the first tax threshold! But no one is complaining, I don't think, least of all the owner.

[cp176]

You can't really compare the ownership of an MLB franchise to the ownership of a house. Many of the rules of common sense are out the door with the former. By some standards we spent foolishly last year, going more than $40 million over the first tax threshold! But no one is complaining, I don't think, least of all the owner.

 

If you took the money wasted on Ramirez and Sandoval last year out of the mix, how do things look? I realize fully that you can't do this but it is what people do here everyday - hindsight analysis.

[notin]

Your analogy of furnace or food begs the question. Do you need tenderloin or will strip steak do? Any damn fool with the thickest wallet can win if they spend without limit. It takes a GM and owner who can make smart decisions to both win and stay within the limit. We still are outspending other clubs. Still, the impacts of Panda's contract and now maybe Pedroia's are handing over our head.

 

 

While the contracts of Panda and Pedroia certainly can be a hindrance, you’re still asking Dombrowski to put together a winning team with the other $208million, and DD should be able to do that if he is a good GM. Most of MLB manages to pull off putting together a team with much less..,

[Bellhorn04]

If you took the money wasted on Ramirez and Sandoval last year out of the mix, how do things look? I realize fully that you can't do this but it is what people do here everyday - hindsight analysis.

 

Those 2 represented about 40 million.

 

The biggest spending teams usually do have some dead money on the books. Yanks still have Ellsbury.

[Bellhorn04]

While the contracts of Panda and Pedroia certainly can be a hindrance, you’re still asking Dombrowski to put together a winning team with the other $208million, and DD should be able to do that if he is a good GM. Most of MLB manages to pull off putting together a team with much less..,

 

The 2018 Orioles were a team.

[cp176]

Those 2 represented about 40 million.

 

The biggest spending teams usually do have some dead money on the books. Yanks still have Ellsbury.

 

I understand what you are saying but I still think that that type of wasted money aught to at least be considered. They were failed experiments and both signings probably represented what notin has said on occasion - money spent to excite a fan base. It won't matter at all to me either what all of the data shows about Hanley Ramirez, imo those were two of the worst signings that this current ownership has made. I'm also not shamed to say that I cheered hard for both of them. That is what my type of fan does.

[notin]

The 2018 Orioles were a team.

 

 

So we’re the Astros, Guardians, Yankees, and Dodgers.

 

Per baseball-reference, the only team in MLB with a payroll over $202mill was the Red Sox.

 

Let’s not pretend that the Orioles are the destined result for any team spending under $208mill...

Edited January 7, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

So we’re the Astros, Guardians, Yankees, and Dodgers.

 

Per baseball-reference, the only team in MLB with a payroll over $202mill was the Red Sox...

 

Sure. We were also the only team that won the championship. And in spite of the high payroll the franchise probably turned a profit and fattened up its market value all at the same time. In this case spending big was spending well, I would say.

[notin]

Sure. We were also the only team that won the championship. And in spite of the high payroll the franchise probably turned a profit and fattened up its market value all at the same time. In this case spending big was spending well, I would say.

 

 

They spent well.

 

But you really can’t argue that Sandoval and Pedroia are major obstacles towards putting a 25 man roster together for a good GM.

 

DD is tasked with putting together the best 25 man roster he can and has a budget of $208mill. Do you think he’s capable or not?

[kenmeister]

The 2018 Orioles were a team.

 

They uh, put 25 players on the field on a regular basis. Using the term 'players' loosely

[Bellhorn04]

They spent well.

 

But you really can’t argue that Sandoval and Pedroia are major obstacles towards putting a 25 man roster together for a good GM.

 

DD is tasked with putting together the best 25 man roster he can and has a budget of $208mill. Do you think he’s capable or not?

 

Yes. And I certainly agree that Sandoval and Pedroia are not major obstacles when John Henry is willing to spend as if there was no dead money on the books.

[S5Dewey]

They spent well.

 

But you really can’t argue that Sandoval and Pedroia are major obstacles towards putting a 25 man roster together for a good GM.

 

DD is tasked with putting together the best 25 man roster he can and has a budget of $208mill. Do you think he’s capable or not?

 

The fallacy in that reasoning is that we don't know that he has the $208MM budget. That's all supposition.

[notin]

The fallacy in that reasoning is that we don't know that he has the $208MM budget. That's all supposition.

 

It’s not a fallacy; it’s a hypothesis. It is very likely he is working on a budget and trying to win in 2019 without leaving an impossible situation in 2020 and beyond.

 

If he was simply on it for 2019 and had a blank checkbook, why are the most notable additions to the bullpen to date two guys named Colten Brewer and Domingo Tapia?

[dgalehouse]

Do we want to run the risk of wasting a big payroll and a golden opportunity to repeat by going with a second rate bullpen? Basically, that is the debate .

[notin]

Do we want to run the risk of wasting a big payroll and a golden opportunity to repeat by going with a second rate bullpen? Basically, that is the debate .

 

It looks like the only debate is - is not spending heavily at closer the only way to build a bullpen?

 

Right now, the Sox de facto closer is Barnes. It’s only January 7, so a lot can happen over the next 80 days. But if Barnes closes and they backfill his set up role with a good pitcher who doesn’t cost $15mill, is that necessarily the death nail of this team?

 

Dombrowski does and always has valued the rotation over the bullpen, which may not agree with Cora’s managing style. So the question is- has Dombrowski learned his lesson from his Detroit days? We are talking about a GM who once entered the postseason with the three then-most recent AL Cy Young winners (Scherzer, Verlander, Price) and another future Cy Young winner (Porcello), but his closer was 39yo Joe Nathan.

 

Is that what you really still expect from Dombrowski?