WS Road Games--who makes room for JDM?

[S5Dewey]

I don't think it's an entirely bad idea except that I don't want Mookie around 2B with Mr. Cheap Shot bearing down on him.

It's a shame that's what the game has come to with Machado but it is.

[Hitch]

At the time of dustcover's suggestion , we had Nunez struggling mightily at second base. Now , we have a top notch second baseman in Kinsler. So we are saying it was a crazy idea then , but a good idea now in the most important games of the year ?

 

Surely you can see the reason it might be considered for three games now?

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it's an entirely bad idea except that I don't want Mookie around 2B with Mr. Cheap Shot bearing down on him.

It's a shame that's what the game has come to with Machado but it is.

 

That's a legitimate reason for concern.

[Maxbialystock]

I think we all need to agree on something pretty basic. When the Sox go to LA, it will be almost obligatory to keep JDM in the lineup, and he can only play in the outfield. So, one way or the other, the Sox are going to have to pay a price in defense.

 

My view is that the smallest defensive price to be paid is moving JDM to LF and leaving Mookie in RF and JBJ in CF because the latter two are much better at their positions than Beni is in LF.

 

Moving Mookie to 2B keeps more good bats in the lineup, but pays a heavier defensive price with JDM in RF and Mookie at 2B. I think Mookie can handle 2B, but not as well as Kinsler or Holt. Plus I feel confident that Machado would try to injure him as he did Pedroia.

 

No easy choices, and I will be happy with whatever Cora decides.

[sk7326]

Betts at 2B is a perfectly defensible idea. I'm just curious whether Martinez has done any work at all at 1B, and whether Cora would be okay trying it now. I do think some of the logic might change is the Red Sox are up 2-0.

[S5Dewey]

I think we all need to agree on something pretty basic. When the Sox go to LA, it will be almost obligatory to keep JDM in the lineup, and he can only play in the outfield. So, one way or the other, the Sox are going to have to pay a price in defense.

 

My view is that the smallest defensive price to be paid is moving JDM to LF and leaving Mookie in RF and JBJ in CF because the latter two are much better at their positions than Beni is in LF.

 

Moving Mookie to 2B keeps more good bats in the lineup, but pays a heavier defensive price with JDM in RF and Mookie at 2B. I think Mookie can handle 2B, but not as well as Kinsler or Holt. Plus I feel confident that Machado would try to injure him as he did Pedroia.

 

No easy choices, and I will be happy with whatever Cora decides.

 

Your lips to Cora's ears, Max.

[vegasbob]

what do i think will really happen?

i think he will rotate JBj & Beni out of the lineup.

Betts & JD will start every game.

with a lead, JD will be pulled for defense.

 

I agree with the Beni/JBJr rotation to make room for JDM. That is also supported by the LH pitching to be faced with LA. Not an issue in the first 2 at Fenway , so the result of those games may affect decision making as well as who is hot and who is not. Jackie's hits were very big and glad he got some recognition, but overall, you do not play him for offensive production., especially against LH'ers.

[dgalehouse]

J.D. is going to be in the outfield. That is for sure. Mookie is going to play somewhere. That is for sure. So , it really just comes down to who sits. JBJ , Benintendi or Kinsler? Maybe it depends on who the opposing pitcher happens to be. Obviously, with a late lead , J.D. will be taken out.

[Emp9]

Betts at 2B is a perfectly defensible idea. I'm just curious whether Martinez has done any work at all at 1B, and whether Cora would be okay trying it now. I do think some of the logic might change is the Red Sox are up 2-0.

 

Indeed. I was thinking the other way around. If Sox were down 0-2 and some comination of Kinsler & Nunez are 0-8 or 0-16, we pull out all the f***ing stops and go for broke and play Mookie at 2B. Other than that type of scenario I really don’t see much straying from what we’ve done all year.

[Emp9]

I don't think it's an entirely bad idea except that I don't want Mookie around 2B with Mr. Cheap Shot bearing down on him.

It's a shame that's what the game has come to with Machado but it is.

 

Yeah, it’s getting to be borderline criminal assualt w/ fishface. I really hope it catches up to him someday.

[Spudboy]

I think it's crazy to try this now and I don't consider his 6 innings and two chances at 2b this year to be considered an adequate trial. Might as well just put JD at first...

 

Except it has been known for a while that Mookie takes fielding practice at second base all season.

 

He is an infielder that plays a spectacular right field.

 

I don't see all this danger you guys seem to fear, either.

[jung]

I don't buy that JBJ is suddenly such an offensive monster that he sends either Beni or JD to the bench for games in LA. You might be less inclined to play JD out there if Buehler is pitching. Buehler is the one Starter they have that can get to the hole in JD's swing. We probably clear Buehler here in game 2 making that a mute argument. But do you really want to see JBJ instead of Beni against a LH pitcher if forced to make a choice in LA?

 

Mookie to 2nd would be a panic move which Cora has resisted in his lineups regardless of anything. So I don't see it unless a panic move is called for.

[Spudboy]

I also heard that Betts takes 2B reps before every game during the regular season. I wouldn’t know. I don’t get access to any pre-game warm-up stuff, I only get most of the actual games themselves. Only going by what I’ve heard.

 

This is so, Emp9. I have seen video of him and photos as well while he takes reps at second. I became aware of this about the time the Swihart issue came up as the idea of Swi playing second would require reps there.

[notin]

I don't think it's an entirely bad idea except that I don't want Mookie around 2B with Mr. Cheap Shot bearing down on him.

It's a shame that's what the game has come to with Machado but it is.

 

The one reason not to worry about this is, Machado is a free agent after the World Series with an immense payday coming, and he is well aware of this. The one thing he doesn't want is some sort of horrible injury that makes him less marketable, whether he gets that injury through aggressive/asinine play or retribution for that type of play.

 

But he's also probably an insane competitor with an air of invulnerability, so maybe he will continue to be Machado. Hopefully not...

[jung]

The one reason not to worry about this is, Machado is a free agent after the World Series with an immense payday coming, and he is well aware of this. The one thing he doesn't want is some sort of horrible injury that makes him less marketable, whether he gets that injury through aggressive/asinine play or retribution for that type of play.

 

But he's also probably an insane competitor with an air of invulnerability, so maybe he will continue to be Machado. Hopefully not...

 

Machado has a short-circuited brain. If that were not the case, we would not be talking about this at all.

 

So the argument is that Machado was "thinking" about his future and consequences when he ran over the Brewer 1st baseman's Achilles in the NLCS? What he figured nobody would notice that?

 

He doesn't care. He has never cared and he is not about to start caring a few days after running over the Brewer 1st baseman's Achilles in front of the whole world!

[moonslav59]

Machado has a short-circuited brain. If that were not the case, we would not be talking about this at all.

 

So the argument is that Machado was "thinking" about his future and consequences when he ran over the Brewer 1st baseman's Achilles in the NLCS? What he figured nobody would notice that?

 

He doesn't care. He has never cared and he is not about to start caring a few days after running over the Brewer 1st baseman's Achilles in front of the whole world!

 

It's in his instincts to try and mess up any player trying to make a play- like it's football or something.

[Kimmi]

I also heard that Betts takes 2B reps before every game during the regular season. I wouldn’t know. I don’t get access to any pre-game warm-up stuff, I only get most of the actual games themselves. Only going by what I’ve heard.

 

I don't get the pregame warm up stuff either. I only go by what I've read.

 

I would not be the least bit surprised if Betts takes 2B reps regularly. Cora has joked about Betts begging to let him play some games at 2B.

 

If Cora doesn't think Betts can handle it, he won't put Betts at 2B. Simple as that.

[Kimmi]

The poster known as dustcover suggested moving Mookie to second base a couple of months ago. As I recall , he was pretty roundly ridiculed . Hardly anyone though it was a good idea. He was even called " crazy." I guess things have changed ? Maybe apologies are in order ?

 

Different reason, different situation.

 

As you know, you manage the World Series differently than you manage regular season games.

[Kimmi]

Indeed. I was thinking the other way around. If Sox were down 0-2 and some comination of Kinsler & Nunez are 0-8 or 0-16, we pull out all the f***ing stops and go for broke and play Mookie at 2B. Other than that type of scenario I really don’t see much straying from what we’ve done all year.

 

This is my opinion, as well.

 

And Bellhorn's too.

[dgalehouse]

Different reason, different situation.

 

As you know, you manage the World Series differently than you manage regular season games.

 

But the plan was the same. J.D. in right , Mookie at second. Why was it crazy a couple of months ago , but a good idea now ? Especially since we now have a very good second baseman .

[notin]

This team has won 115 games so far. Clearly something is working. No need to mess with it...

[Bellhorn04]

But the plan was the same. J.D. in right , Mookie at second. Why was it crazy a couple of months ago , but a good idea now ?

 

It's a risky move-mainly because of the injury factor. In the playoffs you might make a risky move that you wouldn't ordinarily make.

 

It may not even be a good move now. A lot of people think it isn't.

 

Above all it's something to jibber-jabber about.

[S5Dewey]

The one reason not to worry about this is, Machado is a free agent after the World Series with an immense payday coming, and he is well aware of this. The one thing he doesn't want is some sort of horrible injury that makes him less marketable, whether he gets that injury through aggressive/asinine play or retribution for that type of play.

 

But he's also probably an insane competitor with an air of invulnerability, so maybe he will continue to be Machado. Hopefully not...

 

Did you happen to see the interview the day after he kicked Aguilar in the ankle? He was asked specifically about the incident and he shrugged it off and said he'd do anything he could to help his team win.

 

What better way to help his team win than to put Mookie out of commission? He's already done it to Pedey, Hell, this would be a two-fer for him!

 

You trust him a lot more than I do.

[dgalehouse]

It's a risky move-mainly because of the injury factor. In the playoffs you might make a risky move that you wouldn't ordinarily make.

 

It may not even be a good move now. A lot of people think it isn't.

 

Above all it's something to jibber-jabber about.

 

Okay. I'm just having a problem with the logic here. I have no problem being for or against the idea. But be consistent. What I'm getting is that when dustcover suggested it a couple of months ago , it was shot down as crazy. A terrible idea. ( By the way , a possible injury wasn't much mentioned as a reason) Now it's like ; " here's a better idea, let's wait until the World Series and then we'll try it. " It seems that once Cora said he was considering the move , people changed their minds.

[Bellhorn04]

Okay. I'm just having a problem with the logic here. I have no problem being for or against the idea. But be consistent. What I'm getting is that when dustcover suggested it a couple of months ago , it was shot down as crazy. A terrible idea. ( By the way , a possible injury wasn't much mentioned as a reason) Now it's like ; " here's a better idea, let's wait until the World Series and then we'll try it. " It seems that once Cora said he was considering the move , people changed their minds.

 

I don't think there's any inconsistency.

 

dustcover was talking about moving Mookie to 2B for the whole second half of the season - all the time.

 

What we're talking about now is 3 World Series games in a National League park. These are special circumstances. The other thing is that both JBJ and Benintendi have been playing at a very high level. JBJ of course was MVP of the ALCS. You kind of hate to sit one of them down for 2 or 3 games.

 

By the same token, if someone said the Red Sox should have Kimbrel pitching 2-inning saves all season, you'd say they were crazy. But in a playoff game it's something Cora is obviously willing to do. Same as using Porcello and Sale in relief. Special circumstances.

[dgalehouse]

If we had tried it for a few games back then, we might have a better idea of how it would work now. Anyway , J.D. is going to play in the outfield. That is a given. That is not new. He has played both left and right numerous times. We know his limitations. Putting Mookie at second means that JBJ and Beni stay where they are and Kinsler sits. Against left hand pitching, I don't know if that is a plus.

[jung]

Footwork around 2nd base is not something that you leave off of for months or years and then just pick up where you left it. That Mookie takes ground balls at 2nd during infield practice "for fun" and to keep his hand in does nothing to recover his footwork around that bag. Even if he takes a few throws there in practice is just does not get it done. For example it took X two years of MLB play and constant attention to one position to finally have good footwork around 2nd base. It also does not help Mookie deal with the intricacies of the God Damn Overload shift which is now almost as complicated as audibles in football. Its just a bad idea for three games or one game in the WS. It would be the panic move of panic moves. This is particularly true given that there is already an infield weakness to X's right at 3rd base no matter who is playing over there which means X already has more ground to cover to his arm side than to his glove side. That at least makes sense as X is far better going right than he is going left. When you really look at it, the logic of moving Mookie to 2nd base for WS games falls apart pretty quickly.

 

This post season has so far turned on pitching and defense in spite of every possible PR outlet and baseball talking heads desperately trying to sell the MLB party line of power hitting baseball as the key element. Listening to these people on MLB Network spew their silly blather is just sad, pitiful really. They will pay homage to the great defensive plays and run prevention that have just dominated the post season as they always do and then go off and explain why its all going to change for "the next series". That has been their MO for the whole post season.

 

Ah-huh

Edited October 23, 2018 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

This post season has so far turned on pitching and defense in spite of every possible PR outlet and baseball talking head desperately trying to sell the MLB party line of power hitting baseball as the key element.

 

Power hitting may not be the key but offense has been a big factor in our success. We've won games by scores of 5-4, 7-5 and 8-6. Without offense those were L's.

[Bellhorn04]

If we had tried it for a few games back then, we might have a better idea of how it would work now. Anyway , J.D. is going to play in the outfield. That is a given. That is not new. He has played both left and right numerous times. We know his limitations. Putting Mookie at second means that JBJ and Beni stay where they are and Kinsler sits. Against left hand pitching, I don't know if that is a plus.

 

It probably only makes sense against right hand pitching, I would agree on that.

[jung]

Power hitting may not be the key but offense has been a big factor in our success. We've won games by scores of 5-4, 7-5 and 8-6. Without offense those were L's.

 

We all know what "power hitting baseball" means in today's context. It means HR's. The Sox have hit all of 9 HR's over 9 games and held their opponents to 10 HR's over those same 9 games including the HR Happy Yankees. Those are not HR stats that blow anybodies dress up. Conversely, the Sox have 79 hits to their opponents 65 and 18 doubles to their opponents 12. Opponents have tallied 40 Walks to the Sox 38. Walks are the only other offensive category besides HR's opponents have to show for their efforts. Oh by the way, runs.......56 for the Sox, 35 for the post season opponents.

 

No matter what blather MLB tries to sell, including its juiced baseball, if fence crashing, wall bashing, parking lot threatening HR's is all your offense can muster you will lose in the post season because good pitching does not just beat good hitting. It pulverizes fence crashing one dimensional baseball. No matter how much MLB tries to bend this game to its wishes and promote HR's as "critical" to outcomes the game is simply designed not to allow that to happen.

 

And...thus it should be because no matter how much silly nonsense they throw at this "power" addiction they have decided is the future of MLB, no matter how many rules they change and how much they encourage the Overload, no matter how many HR Derby's they hold, they simply cannot change what sits right at the core of the game. Everything in baseball starts with a pitch thrown by a Pitcher who is part of a Battery that has a plan that they know and that the Batter does not know and can only guess at. All their silly Machiavellian efforts do is weaken the game's most attractive element, its multi-demensionality. As HR totals and K totals rise all it brings to my mind is a game that will ultimately bore us to tears!!!

Edited October 23, 2018 by jung