Down the stretch: The bullpen

[Dojji]

I started this thread mostly because there didn't seem to be a good spot to put opinions of the bullpen at the moment.

 

What I wanted to say was, one of the things that's going to be lost in the massive strikeout count from Johnson, 3 HR's from Pearce, etc tonight, is that Brandon Workman was very impressive tonight, going 2 innings against a very powerful lineup. His contribution helped keep the game under control and prevented Cora from having to use higher leverage relievers in a blowout, so well done to him.

 

I also wanted to add that Workman in particular is probably underrated by a lot of fans. I consider him a solid MR, he's shown good things this year and last. Since he was rotting in AAA before the deadline, we might almost consider Workman our deadline acquisition in the pen. He's as good at what he does as anyone in the bullpen not named Craig Kimbrel, and to be honest about it.

[Spudboy]

Became a fan of his in 2013 and I continue to root for his success.

[Kimmi]

I agreed with your point about Workman in the game thread, but I'll agree with it again here. Workman has been solid for us.

 

Workman has the misfortune of having options left, so he tends to be the odd man out.

[Kimmi]

Also, as far as last night's game goes,

 

Red Sox BP > Yankees BP

[FredLynn]

For all the hoopla about the Yankees bullpen it should be noted that the Sox pen is just 0.22 ERA behind them. Our pen is more than competitive. In fact we are closing in on the Astros pitching staff for best overall in the league. Pretty funny that Yankee fans, at the beginning of the season, were gloating about how stellar their team was going to be after they signed Stanton. Guess that at the end of the day you still have to prove it on the field.

[sk7326]

For all the hoopla about the Yankees bullpen it should be noted that the Sox pen is just 0.22 ERA behind them. Our pen is more than competitive. In fact we are closing in on the Astros pitching staff for best overall in the league. Pretty funny that Yankee fans, at the beginning of the season, were gloating about how stellar their team was going to be after they signed Stanton. Guess that at the end of the day you still have to prove it on the field.

 

my favorite stat was the Yankees oen not allowing more than 6 runs in a game all season - until they gave up 7 in the 4th inning.

 

The Red Sox could use more bullpen depth - not because they are lacking but because this is baseball and you can never have too many arms. It'd be good for them to revisit the Francisco Liriano talks over waiver time.

[Bellhorn04]

The Yankee bullpen is a tad overrated. Of course it doesn't help them that their starters are not going deep and piling the innings on the pen.

[sk7326]

The Yankee bullpen is a tad overrated. Of course it doesn't help them that their starters are not going deep and piling the innings on the pen.

 

Right. The Yankee bullpen is excellent - especially bridging from the 6th to the end. But no regular season bullpen is really that well equipped to hold up a team if a starter can't escape the 5th.

[Kimmi]

The Yankee bullpen is a tad overrated. Of course it doesn't help them that their starters are not going deep and piling the innings on the pen.

 

No it doesn't, but wasn't that supposed to be the whole idea of getting Britton? The Yankees were supposed to be able to shorten games to 3 innings. LOL

[Kimmi]

For all the hoopla about the Yankees bullpen it should be noted that the Sox pen is just 0.22 ERA behind them. Our pen is more than competitive. In fact we are closing in on the Astros pitching staff for best overall in the league. Pretty funny that Yankee fans, at the beginning of the season, were gloating about how stellar their team was going to be after they signed Stanton. Guess that at the end of the day you still have to prove it on the field.

 

my favorite stat was the Yankees oen not allowing more than 6 runs in a game all season - until they gave up 7 in the 4th inning.

 

The Red Sox could use more bullpen depth - not because they are lacking but because this is baseball and you can never have too many arms. It'd be good for them to revisit the Francisco Liriano talks over waiver time.

 

Agree with both of you.

[sk7326]

What I like about the Sox 'pen is that they have a good number of legit multi-inning options. It gives Cora some freedom in having a quick hook with his #4/#5 guys.

[Bellhorn04]

No it doesn't, but wasn't that supposed to be the whole idea of getting Britton? The Yankees were supposed to be able to shorten games to 3 innings. LOL

 

They also traded Adam Warren - to the Mariners no less. Some Yankee fans are really shaking their heads over that one.

[greenwell]

Right. The Yankee bullpen is excellent - especially bridging from the 6th to the end. But no regular season bullpen is really that well equipped to hold up a team if a starter can't escape the 5th.

 

The redsox pen has done pretty well at that.

[Maxbialystock]

Better thread than I expected. Agree Workman has been effective. Amazingly, also agree our bullpen just might be as good as or better than the Yankees, especially if you look at the cumulative WAR's of their relievers vs. ours. Last night proves nothing, of course, because it's just one game, and we have had those things happen if not quite as bad.

 

The big question for any bullpen of course is whether they will hold up. It seems so simple just to go out there and pitch just one lousy inning, but in fact it is always fraught with peril because the margins are so small between success and failure. A couple of bad calls by an ump. A nice curve that unfortunately is up in the zone and fat. Ditto Kelly's fastball sometimes. And so on.

 

I like this bullpen as imperfect as it no doubt is. More than that, I like Cora's handling of the pitching staff as a whole. So, yes, I think the bullpen will hold up over the next two months and begone. Not perfect, but good enough.

[Dojji]

The redsox pen has done pretty well at that.

 

 

Yes it has, Velazquez, Johnson and Workman have all proven themselves capable of pitching 1+ innings whenever we need it. All the better because having multiple options means we don't over tax one poor longsuffering arm like we did to Alfredo Aceves a few years back

[Dojji]

Better thread than I expected. Agree Workman has been effective. Amazingly, also agree our bullpen just might be as good as or better than the Yankees, especially if you look at the cumulative WAR's of their relievers vs. ours. Last night proves nothing, of course, because it's just one game, and we have had those things happen if not quite as bad.

 

The big question for any bullpen of course is whether they will hold up. It seems so simple just to go out there and pitch just one lousy inning, but in fact it is always fraught with peril because the margins are so small between success and failure. A couple of bad calls by an ump. A nice curve that unfortunately is up in the zone and fat. Ditto Kelly's fastball sometimes. And so on.

 

I like this bullpen as imperfect as it no doubt is. More than that, I like Cora's handling of the pitching staff as a whole. So, yes, I think the bullpen will hold up over the next two months and begone. Not perfect, but good enough.

 

Matters are definitely helped when you have a solid rotation that can usually go 6+. All of Porcello, Price and Sale are good candidates to get you into that all-important 7th inning. If we get E-Rod and Wright back, we're going to have a very good bullpen because the rotation will help keep them alive.

[kenmeister]

I started this thread mostly because there didn't seem to be a good spot to put opinions of the bullpen at the moment.

 

I had made this thread earlier: https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/18798-Sox-relief-pitching-thread.

 

Mods, perhaps you could combine the two threads?

[Kimmi]

They also traded Adam Warren - to the Mariners no less. Some Yankee fans are really shaking their heads over that one.

 

Yes, they did, a move clearly intended to improve the future of the team.

 

While I am all about not sacrificing the future when putting together a team, I am 100% against weakening the current playoff bound team to improve the future outlook. I was against DFAing Hanley and the idea of trading JBJ for prospects because of this.

[Spudboy]

The Yankee bullpen is a tad overrated. Of course it doesn't help them that their starters are not going deep and piling the innings on the pen.

 

Lol. According to Jacko, now that the Yankees have Britton, their starters need not go further than 3 innings!

[Spudboy]

No it doesn't, but wasn't that supposed to be the whole idea of getting Britton? The Yankees were supposed to be able to shorten games to 3 innings. LOL

 

LOL! Exactly!

[fxkatt]

The trading of Warren was a head-scratcher, but as in all these case, there is method in it. And I think this had something to do with 40-man roster jockeying.

 

Regardless of the closeness of stats, the Yanks do have a superior bull pen in the sense of shut down guys. We bitch and complain about Kelly and Barnes and then have the nerve, after a win of course, to proclaim our bull pen all but equal to the Yanks. I also think that Zach Britton is only going to get stronger with work. He's still in his pre-season. (better say tho that yes yes we are stronger in starting rotation---no no doubt)

[Bellhorn04]

The trading of Warren was a head-scratcher, but as in all these case, there is method in it. And I think this had something to do with 40-man roster jockeying.

 

Regardless of the closeness of stats, the Yanks do have a superior bull pen in the sense of shut down guys. We bitch and complain about Kelly and Barnes and then have the nerve, after a win of course, to proclaim our bull pen all but equal to the Yanks. I also think that Zach Britton is only going to get stronger with work. He's still in his pre-season. (better say tho that yes yes we are stronger in starting rotation---no no doubt)

 

It's a fact that the 2 bullpens are very close statistically.

 

Britton might change that a bit, we'll see.

 

But Green and Holder have been struggling, Warren is gone, Kahnle is injured, and DRob is not what he once was.

[mvp 78]

It's a fact that the 2 bullpens are very close statistically.

 

Britton might change that a bit, we'll see.

 

But Green and Holder have been struggling, Warren is gone, Kahnle is injured, and DRob is not what he once was.

 

Some guys just want to close. We'll see if that happens with Britton.

[Larry Cook]

Some guys just want to close. We'll see if that happens with Britton.

 

I would love for us to sign Britton. Love the movement he generates. Really tough to time it out when he is dealing.

[dgalehouse]

Would have liked to get Britton , but I think the pen will be fine. Kimbrel needs to pitch more often. He looks kind of rusty . Command is not sharp.

[fxkatt]

As the Yanks brought up the go-ahead hitter in Bird today, I was thinking can't relief pitchers imagine they're in real games and work accordingly out in the bull pen rather than "get actual work," in a game like this when Eovaldi could have easily completed his own game.

 

The Yankee announcer said: "Kimbrel was brought in only to get work... well, he's getting more work than the Redsox bargained for."

[oldtimer]

As the Yanks brought up the go-ahead hitter in Bird today, I was thinking can't relief pitchers imagine they're in real games and work accordingly out in the bull pen rather than "get actual work," in a game like this when Eovaldi could have easily completed his own game.

 

The Yankee announcer said: "Kimbrel was brought in only to get work... well, he's getting more work than the Redsox bargained for."

 

There is always a danger of replacing a pitcher who is doing very well with a guy out of the BP. One would think a closer is fairly safe but we have seen even Kimbrel seems to let his nerves get to him. What a downer it would have been had Kimbrel given up a HR to Bird. Still,, Cora has done very well with the team using these approaches.

[Kimmi]

There is always a danger of replacing a pitcher who is doing very well with a guy out of the BP. One would think a closer is fairly safe but we have seen even Kimbrel seems to let his nerves get to him. What a downer it would have been had Kimbrel given up a HR to Bird. Still,, Cora has done very well with the team using these approaches.

 

One thing that often bothers me is when one reliever comes into the game, has a dominant inning with very few pitches, then is replaced by another reliever the next inning, who may or may not get the job done. I wish the manager (not just Cora) would let a reliever pitch a 2nd inning when the first one was so easy.

[Dojji]

That would make sense if he didn't need that reliever tomorrow too. And probably the next day as well.

 

It really is better to limit how much a reliever pitches in any one outing if you need him healthy all the way through October.

 

I'm thinking about the pile of bloody bones out behind the bullpen from workhorse relievers who did great for one or two years then lost everything. Manny Delcarmen springs to mind, so does Alfredo Aceves and Dan Bard. Lots of history of careers ruined 'doing it the old-fashioned way'

 

I'm a big of convention, but it makes a very poor reason to kill a man or ruin his career

[vegasbob]

That would make sense if he didn't need that reliever tomorrow too. And probably the next day as well.

 

It really is better to limit how much a reliever pitches in any one outing if you need him healthy all the way through October.

 

I'm thinking about the pile of bloody bones out behind the bullpen from workhorse relievers who did great for one or two years then lost everything. Manny Delcarmen springs to mind, so does Alfredo Aceves and Dan Bard. Lots of history of careers ruined 'doing it the old-fashioned way'

 

I'm a big of convention, but it makes a very poor reason to kill a man or ruin his career

 

Just a recollection but hasn't Kimbrel gone over 30 pitches twice since the A-S break ? Because of low contact against him (high K's), he is usually in the 20's per outing it seems. Clearly the best we have in the pen, but does apparently get rattled when he gets hit.