Sox starting pitching thread

[Bellhorn04]

According to ESPN, the Yankees think the Mets are asking for too much for de grom and now looking at Happ.

 

Could be a really good move if they pull it off,

 

Well, I have to admit, I'd prefer they didn't get De Grom.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Mets aren’t going to trade either IMO. I think they’re hoping for a Chapman trade, which they should at this point. This isn’t Machado or Happ who are headed for FA at season’s end. Thor and DeGrom have two more years of control. They should ask for the world.

 

I think with the fact that Loaisiga needs to build innings slowly, ie, he isn’t likely to pitch in Sept or beyond, and German’s inability to get through rough innings, I’m resigned to the idea of dealing for a guy like Happ. Clearly the non 40 man status of Sheff, the injuries to Acevedo and the poor start of Adams are keeping those guys down in the minors. All things being equal and Sheff would have been in the bigs since Montgomery got hurt.

 

I wonder if a guy like German would end up being the main piece in a Happ deal. He’s got ace level stuff with great peripherals who hasn’t been able to limit the big inning. He’s best suited finding himself rather than learning in a pennant race. It would suck to see German 6 times a year if he ends up reaching his potential, but I think he’s our most likely piece to be moved

[moonslav59]

Degrom has 2 playoff cycles under his contract. He's worth a lot.

 

I wouldn't believe the Yankees' posturing. They will probably get him,because he is the best guy out there that would give them the strongest boost in chances at a ring for 2 years. They won't have to give up their whole future to get him, so I bet a deal gets done.

 

I hope DD does not panic and try to match up with a bonehead big splash deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

They get three playoff runs with him if they get him now

[notin]

Degrom has 2 playoff cycles under his contract. He's worth a lot.

 

I wouldn't believe the Yankees' posturing. They will probably get him,because he is the best guy out there that would give them the strongest boost in chances at a ring for 2 years. They won't have to give up their whole future to get him, so I bet a deal gets done.

 

I hope DD does not panic and try to match up with a bonehead big splash deal.

 

The Yankees can easily afford deGrom, but it looks like Cashman is falling into the same trap that Cherington did and refusing to part with any prospects.

 

I don't think DD has the prospects to make a huge splash deal...

[OH FOY]

Minaya is not going to just want Prospects. He'll want more than that. Andujar or Torres at least, maybe both. He be an idiot to give up Talent like DeGrom, and not want a Major Leaguer, who he has control of for years, and Minaya is not an idiot.

He built that Pitching Staff, minus Harvey now.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/18/sports/baseball/omar-minayas-fingerprints-are-all-over-these-mets.html

Edited July 5, 2018 by OH FOY!

[notin]

I always thought Minaya was an idiot. Fortunately for the Mets, Sandy Anderson is still the GM...

[Natick to NC]

He will fleece the Yankees and give a sweetheart deal to The Redsox compared .

[OH FOY]

I always thought Minaya was an idiot. Fortunately for the Mets, Sandy Anderson is still the GM...

 

Alderson out buddy, he has Cancer. Minaya back running Operations. Where have you been?

https://www.newsmax.com/health/people/sandy-alderson-mets-cancer-baseball/2018/06/28/id/868809/

Edited July 5, 2018 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

The Yankees can easily afford deGrom, but it looks like Cashman is falling into the same trap that Cherington did and refusing to part with any prospects.

 

I don't think DD has the prospects to make a huge splash deal...

 

I think Cashman is just posturing to try and feign disinterest.

 

He'll come back when he realizes Degrom improves his chances more than anyone else on open market.

[moonslav59]

They get three playoff runs with him if they get him now

 

Right, my bad. Even more reason for Cashamn to kick up his 3 year window chances while still keeping the beyond looking much better than ours.

[a700hitter]

I always thought Minaya was an idiot. Fortunately for the Mets, Sandy Anderson is still the GM...

Alderson (not Anderson) has stepped down as GM due to a rucurrence of his cancer. Minaya will have greater input on decisions.

[Larry Cook]

Looks like Johnson is trying to wrestle the fifth starter job from all contenders and be the guy for the rest of the year. It would be great if he could do it.

[reYoukilis]

What nonsense? Your pink hat mentality is fine. I won't hold that against you. I will say The Organization needs the pink hats to pay those outrageous ball park prices and praise every player move they make or every draft pick or every new Manager that runs the team into the ground.

 

I myself, when I see an Organization built by a Hall of Fame Executive, win 2 World series Titles then get shown the door to include a Manager who won you both those titles by an incompetent Ownership group, I question it!

Cherington brought the Sox Ownership back into the game with the Farrell hire and the same dirt dog mentality to win a ring in 13. Then Ownership via Luchinno low balls an Ace pitcher with Hall of Fame post season numbers and you have been chasing your tail ever since. Garbage Free Agent signings. What is the result, fire Cherington bring in Dombrowski who continues the string of "not keeping payroll flexibility" by over spending on a DUD! Now that 30 million could have been the reserve last year and this, to go out and get that one big chip to win you a Ring.

 

You only save and spend the big smoke $$ on premier power pitchers like Lester Scherzer Verlander Kershaw to an extent Cueto, not inconsistent pitchers like Porcello. The same for hitters. You pay the superstars of this game like Manny, Ortiz, not the sandoval crawford Hanley duds who eventually tax strap you.

 

A DeGrom trade wins you a ring, without him, keep paying the piper and john henry!

Stickin up for Stork here. I agree, not just because of Price but the bad mentality of paying your way to a ring. Look at the freaking WS winners in the past decade or so for proof.

 

I've said it before but we were on the right track until we won 2013 WS and just because we couldn't repeat....blow it all up.....fire, fire, fire....spend, spend spend.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees can easily afford deGrom, but it looks like Cashman is falling into the same trap that Cherington did and refusing to part with any prospects.

 

I don't think DD has the prospects to make a huge splash deal...

 

This doesn’t make all that much sense. Cash has been willing to part with prospects all along. It’s about parting with the right ones. His approach has us staring at a prolonged period of sustained success and a rebuilt core from within. I can’t blame him for not wanting to burn that for rentals. DeGrom is a different case as he’s available for more than one year, but we don’t know what the Mets price is. Andujar and Torres are absolutely off limits. They carried us for the last two months and both are having all star caliber seasons. They’re likely to be 1 and 2 in ROY voting as long as Torres isn’t out for long with his hip issue.

 

The other issue is proximity. When you’ve got holes opening and guys ready to fill them, you don’t want to deal off the cheap replacements for rentals or shorter term fixes that are going to be expensive a la DeGrom. We’ve got at least one hole opening in the rotation next year. If the Yanks end up going deep into October, CC has already said he’d hang it up. If he keeps pitching like this, I hope not, but that’s a distinct possibility. I’d also say a deal to rid ourselves of Gray might occur as well. That makes a guy like Sheffield, who is clearly ready for prime time, very valuable. Same can be said for Frazier as Gardy isn’t playing at a level to guarantee his option and Frazier is killing the ball in AAA and even in his cup of coffee this year in the bigs. Our two biggest trade chips are likely to be our two best options to start next year. Granted, you pair Degrom with Sevy and Tanaka and the front of your rotation looks pretty sweet. That’s the trade off.

 

In the end, I think the Mets hold until the offseason where the hot stove will allow for a more well thought out approach. I think we can come to an agreement then when all the cards are on the table. Currently, I can’t blame the Mets for shooting for the moon, but they’re not getting Torres or Andujar. The Mets are the team needing a rebuild and they’re staring at a long one. The Yanks are clearly fine holding pat if need be

[Bellhorn04]

Stickin up for Stork here. I agree, not just because of Price but the bad mentality of paying your way to a ring. Look at the freaking WS winners in the past decade or so for proof.

 

I've said it before but we were on the right track until we won 2013 WS and just because we couldn't repeat....blow it all up.....fire, fire, fire....spend, spend spend.

 

I think it's mostly horseshit. Of course there have been some big mistakes, I'm not denying that. But if you're a long-term Red Sox fan and you're moaning and groaning about John Henry's stewardship of the team, you're basically a spoiled pussy.

 

Stork is obviously not a Sox fan.

[Maxbialystock]

Agree completely with Bellhorn04 that critics of the John Henry era are idiots. He not only broke the 86 year curse but won two more and I believe the three WS wins, 2004 to the present, are as many or more than any other team in MLB and certainly more than the Yankees.

[Kimmi]

Then we're respectfully (I hope) going to disagree on most of your post. While I agree that a non-baseball related issue (like a sick child) is not choking I see the others as choking. IMO when a player alters his normal physical motion due to a fear of failure...that's choking.

 

In the case of David Price I think he has all the ability in the world. He shows it repeatedly against weaker teams but when asked to face a top echelon team it's in his head and that manifests itself by his making small changes in his delivery. IMO a baseball psychiatrist might work wonders for him.

 

As I said about his relieving, I dunno. It was just a theory. But IMO there's something going on.

 

Interestingly, when I think of players who've played through having a sick child I also think of players who've "played through" their family issues with no loss of effectiveness. Think: Dwight Evans and Craig Kimbrel. Of course I freely admit that there may be others whose family issues have affected their performance but we didn't hear about them

 

As I posted before, it's a fine line. As I also posted before, I do 100% believe in the concept of choking, and have no doubt that there are choking moments.

[Kimmi]

I think it's mostly horseshit. Of course there have been some big mistakes, I'm not denying that. But if you're a long-term Red Sox fan and you're moaning and groaning about John Henry's stewardship of the team, you're basically a spoiled pussy.

 

Stork is obviously not a Sox fan.

 

My only criticism of Henry is that I think he tends to overreact when things go badly. Letting Theo and Tito go, then later letting Cherington go, were all hasty decisions.

 

I don't know how anyone can seriously criticize Henry in terms of thinking he doesn't want to win every year or in terms of not spending enough money.

[notin]

Agree completely with Bellhorn04 that critics of the John Henry era are idiots. He not only broke the 86 year curse but won two more and I believe the three WS wins, 2004 to the present, are as many or more than any other team in MLB and certainly more than the Yankees.

 

Absolutely true

 

Henry has never been the problem...

[Kimmi]

Absolutely true

 

Henry has never been the problem...

 

He let Theo walk. That's a problem.

[Maxbialystock]

He let Theo walk. That's a problem.

 

Really? In 2011 Theo was offered a very good contract ($18.5M for five years) to go to the Cubs and made President of Baseball Operations or something. The Ricketts family, who bought the Cubs in 2009, were determined to spend whatever it took to win a WS. I believe they were willing to outbid John Henry.

 

Since Theo left Boston, the Cubs have won one WS, and the Sox have won one WS. I think Cherington made key moves to get the 2013 title, but then made some mistakes like letting Lester go, hiring HanRam and Pablo, etc. DD has made some good moves and some not so good, and right now the Sox have a pretty good team but a difficult future because of the salary cap.

[Kimmi]

Really? In 2011 Theo was offered a very good contract ($18.5M for five years) to go to the Cubs and made President of Baseball Operations or something. The Ricketts family, who bought the Cubs in 2009, were determined to spend whatever it took to win a WS. I believe they were willing to outbid John Henry.

 

Since Theo left Boston, the Cubs have won one WS, and the Sox have won one WS. I think Cherington made key moves to get the 2013 title, but then made some mistakes like letting Lester go, hiring HanRam and Pablo, etc. DD has made some good moves and some not so good, and right now the Sox have a pretty good team but a difficult future because of the salary cap.

 

I think a large part of the reason that Theo left was because of Lucchino, which resulted in Theo not having the autonomy that he wanted. Perhaps Theo would have left anyway, but I think Henry was ready to part with him and Tito after the 2011 collapse. As I said, Henry 'let' him walk.

 

Cherington had a 5 year plan. The 5 year plan came to fruition in 2016 because of the work that he did, not because Dombrowski came in and 'saved the day'. Cherington should have been given the opportunity to see his plan through.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dombrowski finished the plan. The 5 year plan never would have worked with Cherington because he fell in love with his prospects. Getting Kimbrel and Price for 2016 put you guys into the ALE drivers seat. Getting Sale last year kept you there. Getting JDM this offseason has put you as co-favorites to win the title with the Yanks. DD takes a lot of gruff for the way he won, but to this point, you cannot argue results

[notin]

Dombrowski finished the plan. The 5 year plan never would have worked with Cherington because he fell in love with his prospects. Getting Kimbrel and Price for 2016 put you guys into the ALE drivers seat. Getting Sale last year kept you there. Getting JDM this offseason has put you as co-favorites to win the title with the Yanks. DD takes a lot of gruff for the way he won, but to this point, you cannot argue results

 

I think DD has done better than I thought he would adding the final pieces, but most of us knew he’d mortgage the future to do so, so it needs to work.

 

Anyone who thinks this farm system is going to help sustain team success in the future is blinded by the success of today...

[Slasher9]

DD takes a lot of gruff for the way he won, but to this point, you cannot argue results

 

he hasnt won s***.

hasnt been a parade in Boston in October/November since 2013. before DD.

[a700hitter]

he hasnt won s***.

hasnt been a parade in Boston in October/November since 2013. before DD.

Division titles are nothing to sneeze at. Before winning back to back Division Titles in 2016 & 2017, we won Division Titles only in 2007 & 2013 since the turn of the Century -- one each for Theo and Ben.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If the Red Sox decide to move Price to the bullpen in October, and decide to make S.Wright the fourth starter in the playoffs (behind Sale, Porcello, and Rodriguez) I don't think the decision would be an overreaction. There is an empirical, statistical basis for the decision--Price has a record of failure as a playoff starter and he seems to have no answer for the Yankees lineup. Moreover, if the final 3 games of the regular season matter, it would make sense to start someone else besides Price in that series. Edited July 5, 2018 by Fan_since_Boggs

[TylerD]

I think it's mostly horseshit. Of course there have been some big mistakes, I'm not denying that. But if you're a long-term Red Sox fan and you're moaning and groaning about John Henry's stewardship of the team, you're basically a spoiled pussy.

 

Stork is obviously not a Sox fan.

Agreed with this. I haven't complained too much about the Sox in recent years. Seeing them win 3 World Series and I am only 30 years old is a pretty amazing thing. I think the Sox fans can be a tad dramatic and spoiled at times. Making playoffs isn't good enough unless we win the World Series. People forget how hard it actually is to make it to the World Series let alone win it. I consider myself pretty lucky as I live in Canada and all my friends are Jays fans. Poor buggers

[bosoxmal]

It is obvious that Cora is already planning for the playoffs. And doesn' really need my advice. But here it is anyway/

 

Make doubly sure that Wright is Right when we get to mid-Se[tember. He could make all the difference especially seeing one end 4-3 instead of 3-5/ The guy is unhittable when healthy, and useless when he isn't! (which seems to be a lot of the time!)