run support for Sale

[mvp 78]

Yes, there are a lot of people who still do.

 

Who?

[Slasher9]

Who?

 

Chris Sale

[Bellhorn04]

Who?

 

Plenty of commentators and fans still buy into the importance of the W. The most obvious evidence of this comes when a starter is pulled in the 5th inning with a lead. A big deal is made of the fact that he can't get the win.

[S5Dewey]

Whether they're right or not some people still put a lot of emphasis on wins. Look at any broadcast or any pregame write-up and the first thing that's mentioned about a pitcher is his W/L record. Somebody likes it.

[cp176]

Plenty of commentators and fans still buy into the importance of the W. The most obvious evidence of this comes when a starter is pulled in the 5th inning with a lead. A big deal is made of the fact that he can't get the win.

 

Ok I'll admit it, so do I. Who doesn't would be the question I guess. There are other statistics that tell a more complete story but numbers like ERA and wins and losses still serve a purpose for lots of diehard fans that I know. I still like those guys with 15 to 20+ wins - oh well.

[moonslav59]

To me, a pitcher's wins is about last on my list of criteria. Team record in his starts matters more, but is still below ERA- or ERA+, WHIP, OPS against, xFIP, WAR and just plain old ERA.

[Emp9]

I think ERA along with WHIP gives one a pretty good idea what’s up, for a fan. A team front office might want to dig a lot deeper before they start tossing millions of dollars around. The people who vote on s*** should definitely look a lot deeper.

[mvp 78]

Chris Sale

 

Where has he stated that he cares about wins?

[mvp 78]

Whether they're right or not some people still put a lot of emphasis on wins. Look at any broadcast or any pregame write-up and the first thing that's mentioned about a pitcher is his W/L record. Somebody likes it.

 

That's put in their by rote, IMO.

[Slasher9]

Where has he stated that he cares about wins?

 

well, he cares about strikeouts so i am making the assumption he also cares about wins.

also: my opinion.

[moonslav59]

I think ERA along with WHIP gives one a pretty good idea what’s up, for a fan. A team front office might want to dig a lot deeper before they start tossing millions of dollars around. The people who vote on s*** should definitely look a lot deeper.

 

I'd say ERA- and OPS against are better than ERA and WHIP.

 

I'm not big on FIP, because it discriminates against low K but effective pitchers.

[mvp 78]

well, he cares about strikeouts so i am making the assumption he also cares about wins.

also: my opinion.

 

I think caring about strikeouts and caring about wins are completely different things. Strikeouts have legitimate value as they prevent the batter from putting a ball in play. Wins, saves and holds are basically meaningless.

[Slasher9]

[Spudboy]

lol

[dustcover]

It's been 2 months and Sale is still not getting run support by the Sox offense that is leading the league in most offensive categories. But still can't manage to give Sale some run support!

[Bellhorn04]

Sale got better than average run support in 2017.

 

This is good old buzzard luck/randomness at its finest. But it does get a little frustrating, that's for sure.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I think ERA along with WHIP gives one a pretty good idea what’s up, for a fan. A team front office might want to dig a lot deeper before they start tossing millions of dollars around. The people who vote on s*** should definitely look a lot deeper.

 

Whenever I look at the opposing pitcher I look at ERA first, then WHIP, then move on to K/W. I don't pay much attention to wins/losses. But at the end of the year W/L record is a measuring stick for pictures, well starters anyway fair or not. A 20 win season is still a 20 win season and it's significant. So it sucks that Sale's numbers do not reflect his performance.

[Bellhorn04]

Whenever I look at the opposing pitcher I look at ERA first' date=' then WHIP, then move on to K/W. I don't pay much attention to wins/losses. But at the end of the year W/L record is a measuring stick for pictures, well starters anyway fair or not. A 20 win season is still a 20 win season and it's significant. So it sucks that Sale's numbers do not reflect his performance.[/quote']

 

Things have changed a little bit in how W-L record is looked at, fortunately. King Felix's Cy Young award in 2010 came with a 13-12 record. But there's still some 'old school' values clinging to the W-L thing, no doubt.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Things have changed a little bit in how W-L record is looked at, fortunately. King Felix's Cy Young award in 2010 came with a 13-12 record. But there's still some 'old school' values clinging to the W-L thing, no doubt.

 

It's also called the Cy Young award based on his 511 wins. It should be called the Walter Johnson Award.

[Slasher9]

Would love to see the texts between Sale and his agent......

[OH FOY]

2-13 RISP last night, last 30 days we have been slipping in getting the big hit in games. For all the Pitchers.

[Maxbialystock]

I do think wins are important and, honestly, was a little disappointed with those 2 runs in the 6th. One of guys who scored was HBP. Also, that grounder with no outs should have been a GIDP but was just 1 out. Also, Sale didn't bear down on Escobar with men on 1st and 3 and one out. A double, for crying out loud.

 

I think Sale is a great pitcher and that he largely got screwed last night, but I also think that game goes differently if he were just a little tougher in the 6th inning. If Sale gets thru the 7th with a lead, I think the bullpen does a better job if only because Kimbrel comes into play.

[mvp 78]

I do think wins are important and, honestly, was a little disappointed with those 2 runs in the 6th. One of guys who scored was HBP. Also, that grounder with no outs should have been a GIDP but was just 1 out. Also, Sale didn't bear down on Escobar with men on 1st and 3 and one out. A double, for crying out loud.

 

I think Sale is a great pitcher and that he largely got screwed last night, but I also think that game goes differently if he were just a little tougher in the 6th inning. If Sale gets thru the 7th with a lead, I think the bullpen does a better job if only because Kimbrel comes into play.

 

No, it shouldn't have been. That batter that was up got down the line really fast. They wouldn't have gotten him 99/100 times.

[illinoisredsox]

It's also called the Cy Young award based on his 511 wins. It should be called the Walter Johnson Award.

 

People forget or overlook the fact that Cy Young is the losingest pitcher of all time (316). Johnson is 4th with 279.

 

You have to be really good to lose a lot of games. W-L meant a lot more when pitchers routinely pitched complete games.

[Kimmi]

I do think wins are important and, honestly, was a little disappointed with those 2 runs in the 6th. One of guys who scored was HBP. Also, that grounder with no outs should have been a GIDP but was just 1 out. Also, Sale didn't bear down on Escobar with men on 1st and 3 and one out. A double, for crying out loud.

 

I think Sale is a great pitcher and that he largely got screwed last night, but I also think that game goes differently if he were just a little tougher in the 6th inning. If Sale gets thru the 7th with a lead, I think the bullpen does a better job if only because Kimbrel comes into play.

 

Sale also clearly struck LaMarre out on a pitch that the umpire called a ball. LaMarre promptly gets a single after that. The correct strike call would have changed the entire complexion of that inning.

 

That said, what happened after that is on Sale.

 

That said, Sale pitched a great game. The fact that his W-L record is 8-8 tells you how awful a stat pitcher Wins is.

[Bellhorn04]

People forget or overlook the fact that Cy Young is the losingest pitcher of all time (316). Johnson is 4th with 279.

 

You have to be really good to lose a lot of games. W-L meant a lot more when pitchers routinely pitched complete games.

 

Yes and no. The career W-L records of Ryan and Blyleven more than anything highlight that they pitched great for some very bad teams.

 

Ryan's 1987 season (8-16, 2.76 ERA) is probably the all-time howler when it comes to W-L.

[Slasher9]

Sale also clearly struck LaMarre out on a pitch that the umpire called a ball. LaMarre promptly gets a single after that. The correct strike call would have changed the entire complexion of that inning.

 

 

be-still my heart. has Kimmi joined me in ROBOT UMPS NOW! ????

[Maxbialystock]

No, it shouldn't have been. That batter that was up got down the line really fast. They wouldn't have gotten him 99/100 times.

 

OK, OK. I just threw that in there to blame the infield instead of Sale. 1B to SS to 1B is always a tough GIDP. My point, however, remains: great as Sale has been since coming to Boston, he wasn't so great in the 6th last night. And we needed him to be great. In the recently completed series at Seattle, who was on a roll when the Sox arrived, Price was great in game 1 and Wright was great in game 3.

[mvp 78]

OK, OK. I just threw that in there to blame the infield instead of Sale. 1B to SS to 1B is always a tough GIDP. My point, however, remains: great as Sale has been since coming to Boston, he wasn't so great in the 6th last night. And we needed him to be great. In the recently completed series at Seattle, who was on a roll when the Sox arrived, Price was great in game 1 and Wright was great in game 3.

 

Sox had a lot of runners on last night and very little to show for it. Can't expect Sale to pitch a SHO every game.

[SoxnCycles]

be-still my heart. has Kimmi joined me in ROBOT UMPS NOW! ????

 

LOL

 

Don't bet on it.