The 2018 Bullpen Season Thread

[Bellhorn04]

I'm still trying to figure out how someone " is sick of us losing games because of Kimbrel ." What ???

 

Loss on April 24.

Blown save leading to loss on May 1.

 

But a very unfair statement, needless to say.

[jacksonianmarch]

Someone is sick of Kimbrel blowing games? He only comes in for close games. He’s dominated in all but two games. One of those games a guy hit a solo HR. I’m confused

[notin]

I agree with this. although I guess my main beef at the end of the day is that some of those prospects would have landed Sale and we could still have moncada....

 

I doubt any combination of Margot, Asuaje, Allen of Guerra was going to replace Moncada, who was the clear headliner in that trade.

 

My biggest gripe was the Sox gave up an awful lot to get a closer, when we were a last place team with much bigger needs...

[Spudboy]

I still say there is a good chance of keeping Kimbrel.

 

Has anyone considered what teams would be in the market for him? Also, how many teams can go 5/90 or whatever for any players, much less a player who plays 60-70 innings?

 

I would assume that most of the "Haves", the teams in major markets, all have an effective closer. Why would they want to jump horses? How many teams with smaller payrolls

 

will show serious interest in him?

 

 

I just thinks that MAYBE the market for a premium closer is not as robust as we assume it to be in these conversations.

 

I think that he can be secured by a deal for say, 3/48 -4/60 or so.

 

This is all just my OPINION.

 

A good negotiator could get this done if the approach to Kimbrel is done well.

 

DD and company may be proficient in their jobs but I have seen very little if any of good negotiating.

[cp176]

I'm still trying to figure out how someone " is sick of us losing games because of Kimbrel ." What ???

 

Not to worry - it was Larry - lol

[mvp 78]

I doubt any combination of Margot, Asuaje, Allen of Guerra was going to replace Moncada, who was the clear headliner in that trade.

 

My biggest gripe was the Sox gave up an awful lot to get a closer, when we were a last place team with much bigger needs...

Knowing what we do now, the Kimbrel trade was a good deal for the Sox.

[moonslav59]

Knowing what we do now, the Kimbrel trade was a good deal for the Sox.

 

I hated the deal at the time, and not because of any dislike for Kimbrel.

 

At the time, Kimbrel was making near FA money, so I felt we shouldn't have had to pay FA money AND prospects.

 

Since the deal, closer costs have sky-rocketed and only Margot has shown ML readiness.

 

At the time, I suggested Kimbrel should stay a top 3-5 closer for the remainder of his control time, and he has.

[notin]

Knowing what we do now, the Kimbrel trade was a good deal for the Sox.

 

While true, that also involves knowing:

 

1. Porcello would emerge as a Cy Young-caliber pitcher. While I always liked Porcello, his 2016 was completely unforeseen by anyone except maybe his mom.

2. Chris Sale would become available. There was really no reason for the White Sox to blow up what was actually a good team, with Sale being the centerpiece in terms of not only talent but also trade value. Rick Hahn did a great job identifying and locking up premier talents like Sale, Quintana and Eaton to insanely affordable deals that, coupled with players like Abreu, Robertson, and a few other notables, formed a cheap nucleus that was already controlled affordably long-term. I have always suspected Sale's public tantrums prior to the 2017 season lead to an availability that never should have been there.

 

I can easily believe Price was going to be attainable, given how high Dombrowski was clearly willing to go to get him.

 

But without the emergence of Porcello and the sudden unexpected availability of Sale, was the plan to rely solely on Price to upgrade the starting pitching?

Edited May 3, 2018 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

While true, that also involves knowing:

 

1. Porcello would emerge as a Cy Young-caliber pitcher. While I always liked Porcello, his 2016 was completely unforeseen by anyone except maybe his mom.

2. Chris Sale would become available. There was really no reason for the White Sox to blow up what was actually a good team, with Sale being the centerpiece in terms of not only talent but also trade value. Rick Hahn did a great job identifying and locking up premier talents like Sale, Quintana and Eaton to insanely affordable deals that, coupled with players like Abreu, Robertson, and a few other notables, formed a cheap nucleus that was already controlled affordably long-term. I have always suspected Sale's public tantrums prior to the 2017 season lead to an availability that never should have been there.

 

I can easily believe Price was going to be attainable, given how high Dombrowski was clearly willing to go to get him.

 

But without the emergence of Porcello and the sudden unexpected availability of Sale, was the plan to rely solely on Price to upgrade the starting pitching?

 

Well, as we know, the team had trade chips and Dombrowski had no qualms about using them.

 

Also, there was certainly reason to believe Porcello would be better than he was in 2015. Not as good as he was, but better.

[notin]

Well, as we know, the team had other trade chips and Dombrowski had no qualms about using them.

 

Also, there was certainly reason to believe Porcello would be better than he was in 2015. Not as good as he was, but better.

 

Porcello had a terrific second half, once he came off the DL in 2015.

 

But even having trade chips doesn't mean the player you want is readily available. Especially from a team taht should have been as good as the White Sox. The Yankees have plenty of trade chips today, but that doesn't automatically mean Michael Fulmer is going to end up there. (And Fulmer is a guy who should be traded from that awful Detroit team.)

[Kimmi]

Knowing what we do now, the Kimbrel trade was a good deal for the Sox.

 

Kimbrel has been a great closer for us. That was never the issue.

 

We still overpaid for him, however, in both prospects and dollars.

[Kimmi]

That is a pretty general statement. Kimbrel is not just a relief pitcher. He is an elite closer. One of the best of his era. For what it would take to sign Kimbrel , you would probably get a good , but not elite , position player or starting pitcher. To get that would cost more , maybe a lot more. To make a decision , we would need to know which position player or starting pitcher could be had for Kimbrel money.

 

IMO, a big payout to a starting pitcher or a position player would be worth more than a big payout to even an elite closer. You can get nearly the same value, if not the same value, paying someone a lot less.

[Bellhorn04]

Kimbrel has been a great closer for us. That was never the issue.

 

We still overpaid for him, however, in both prospects and dollars.

 

We may have overpaid in prospects, but not in dollars. His salary has been reasonable. Basically about the same as we were paying Papelbon at the end of his tenure here. A much lower AAV than Chapman and Davis.

[moonslav59]

I'm so glad we don't have to worry about the Astros this year. The have no closer of any worth, as evidenced by today's meltdown with the Yanks.

[OH FOY]

Sportstrac has Kimbrel's market value at 16.5 million a year. Thanks for you service Craig, wish you well. Edited May 4, 2018 by OH FOY!

[moonslav59]

Sportstrac has Kimbrel's market value at 16.5 million a year. Thanks for you service Craig, wish you well.

 

He's been worth the $13M a year he's made with us. One can argue he wasn't worth the $13M plus 4 prospects, but the next question is this?

 

Is he worth paying $90M/5 as he ages? Would the money saved on the budget being used elsewhere plus the draft compensation be a better choice?

[jacksonianmarch]

Aroldis got a 5 year deal 2 years younger than Kimbrel will be this offseason. I'd be wary to hand a 5 yr deal to a power pitcher who will turn 31 in his first season of the deal

[notin]

Aroldis got a 5 year deal 2 years younger than Kimbrel will be this offseason. I'd be wary to hand a 5 yr deal to a power pitcher who will turn 31 in his first season of the deal

 

I think the Sox might be better served to let him go for that reason. While he won't be looking at 7 years, and while closers and their fewer IP should age a bit better than starters, at some point the Sox need to learn a lesson from the signing of Price...

[Maxbialystock]

He's been worth the $13M a year he's made with us. One can argue he wasn't worth the $13M plus 4 prospects, but the next question is this?

 

Is he worth paying $90M/5 as he ages? Would the money saved on the budget being used elsewhere plus the draft compensation be a better choice?

 

No closer is worth that money. To me the "fireman of the year" award is a joke because most of the time the closer ain't putting out a fire because he normally starts with a clean inning.

[Station 13]

Let's see how DD approach the closer market. He got JD martinez at a bargain when market was only Boston. There's not many contenders without closer next year. Andrew Miller is also a free agent as well. I think I'd go 4/65M to retain Kimbrel.

[Spudboy]

Aroldis got a 5 year deal 2 years younger than Kimbrel will be this offseason. I'd be wary to hand a 5 yr deal to a power pitcher who will turn 31 in his first season of the deal

 

I fully agree and I think he can be had for far less than 5/90.

 

How many teams do you see Kimbrel getting that type of offer from? Who are they?

[Bellhorn04]

Let's see how DD approach the closer market. He got JD martinez at a bargain when market was only Boston. There's not many contenders without closer next year. Andrew Miller is also a free agent as well. I think I'd go 4/65M to retain Kimbrel.

 

4/65 is reasonable.

[Kimmi]

4/65 is reasonable.

 

Pass.

 

I thought Koji's 2/18 was too much.

[Station 13]

Pass.

 

I thought Koji's 2/18 was too much.

 

Koji was 42.

[Kimmi]

Koji was 42.

 

Fair enough. I would give Kimbrel a 2/18 deal.

[Bellhorn04]

Fair enough. I would give Kimbrel a 2/18 deal.

 

And even that would hurt.

[Kimmi]

And even that would hurt.

 

LOL I had actually typed something along those lines as part of that post, but then I erased it.

 

I wouldn't like the $9 mil per year, but if we could re-sign him for such a short contract, I'm in.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's not forget Joltin' Joe Kelly. He's a free agent too. Do we keep him?

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Is it wishful thinking that they can get production out of Tyler Thornburg?

[S5Dewey]

Let's not forget Joltin' Joe Kelly. He's a free agent too. Do we keep him?

 

If Joe keeps doing what he's been doing keeping him is a no-brainer. He found his stride ever since he plunked Austin. Ya, he's got an ERA of 2.63 but when a pitcher has a limited number of innings one bad inning can balloon that stat. I like that 0.80 WHIP though.

 

For those people who don't want to sign Kimbrel and are willing to settle for what may be a second-rate closer to save some money JK may be just the ticket.