The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

They're in 2nd place now. They have a pretty decent lineup and lots of big bats coming through their system (Hernandez, Gurriel, Bichette, Guerrero). Their pitching is pretty nondescript, but their hitting is decent enough. 4th in runs.

 

Happ, Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada and Garcia is actually really good.

[moonslav59]

Happ, Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada and Garcia is actually really good.

 

They are going to be tough.

 

They also dumped Bautista- addition by subtraction.

[mvp 78]

Happ, Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada and Garcia is actually really good.

 

I meant "nondescript" more as solid veterans. The names don't wow you, but they get the job done. Their numbers are basically league average last year and this year.

[Station 13]

Happ, Sanchez, Stroman, Estrada and Garcia is actually really good.

 

Good #3-4s

[Maxbialystock]

sorry, i fail to see the comparison to the POM start.

as for the 8th inning 22-April: Price had just given up back to back base hits. i dont care what he did against Lowrie...he should have been pulled from the game at that point IMO. it's actually worse that he K'd lowrie because that just allowed Cora to sit on his hands and let him face KHRush. maybe if lowrie had hit an atem ball cora would have gone righty-righty.

as for bringing up Carson in Game 1 of the season....that was 20 games ago. are we never going to pitch carson in a high leverage/8th inning spot again the rest of the season because of how he fared game 1???

should we have not pitched Kelly in all of these high leverage spots because he also pooped the sheets game 1?

sorry Max.

 

Fine. Forget the Pom first start game. Just look at the team won-lost record and don't forget to look at the close ones when the manager might have been partly involved in the outcome. That alone should give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But, fine again, don't consider the won-lost record. Just focus on the April 22 game 8th inning. Price gets an out and gives up 2 singles, at which point you want Carson Smith in there instead of Price. A fresh arm. But I say I want more than a fresh arm in a tie game with 2 men on in the 8th inning. I want a good arm, by which I mean someone who can throw good pitches when it's crunch time. Carson has pitched in 9 games and has the worst ERA and the lowest WAR (-.1) in the Sox bullpen. He has given up 6 walks in 7 innings. This year he has yet to pitch well with the game on the line and with runners on base when he goes into the game. I will grant you he probably would not have given up a dinger, but Oakland didn't need a dinger. All they needed was maybe a walk to move that runner to 3b and then a fly or a grounder with eyes to get thru the drawn in infield with 1 out. Or forget the walk and just get a single to bring the runner on 2b home.

 

Price, on the other hand, has had men on base several times in 5 starts and 27.2 innings and done pretty well up until that April 22 dinger. And up until that fatal pitch he had gone 7.2 innings while giving up 1 run and 1 walk. So I honestly think leaving him in is defensible.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Kimmi]

The Jays will not be in any race.

 

I don't think the Jays will be in any race either. We've seen them get off to hot starts before, only to fade quickly. Besides, the competition is too good for them to be able to stick around.

[Kimmi]

I do and agree with her. I do not intend sarcastic nastiness and do not object to other points of view on managerial decisions. I just enjoy defending them.

 

I don't know how you took my comment, but I have absolutely no issues with you Max.

[a700hitter]

My apologies. You've mentioned several times in the past you don't consider these men to hold much intelligence, I figured it was an extension of this view.

That is very faulty logic. Having an opinion that most managers have little intelligence and that they do a poor job would not have anything at all to do with their effect or impact on the performance of their teams.

[jacksonianmarch]

Good #3-4s

 

That's not even close. Happ won 20 games in 16 and has posted three straight 2.9WAR or higher seasons. Stroman has 7 WAR the last 2 years. Sanchez won the AL ERA title in 2016. Estrada is a #3-4 kind of guy. Garcia is a #5.

[StephenCurry30]

I don't think this is worthy of a whole new thread, so I will put this in my Alex Cora thread, since I link the coaching staff and the manager together. Our 3B coach is an absolute moron, He has had numerous guys thrown out on bases and they are bad, like not even close plays. I know a few people were displeased with his sending of Nunez tonight - Max, JBay, myself, and a few others in the game thread. Do other teams have this issue? I am honestly asking. How many teams have guys consistently thrown out at home like we do. Butterfield was stupid, but febles is just as bad, if not worse. where do we find these morons?

[jacksonianmarch]

They take their marching orders from Cora. If Cora wants them to be more cautious, he will say so

[SoxHop]

They take their marching orders from Cora. If Cora wants them to be more cautious, he will say so

 

Will you stop. That's just a super bad read on the thirdbase coach. Coras not teaching to be suicidal on the basepath.

[notin]

I don't think the Jays will be in any race either. We've seen them get off to hot starts before, only to fade quickly. Besides, the competition is too good for them to be able to stick around.

 

While true, bear in mind this Jays team has a little more depth coming up from below than we've seen them have in the past. And quite a few of them with familiar names like Biggio, Bichette and Vlad Guerrero...

[Youk Of The Nation]

How weird would it be if all three of those guys were playing on the same team at the same time in the majors? EDIT: Just looked it up. They've got Koby Clemens and Mark Grudzelaineks' nephew too. That's a hell of a lot to live up to all on one roster.

[jacksonianmarch]

Will you stop. That's just a super bad read on the thirdbase coach. Coras not teaching to be suicidal on the basepath.

 

No, it’s not. Running is situational. With two outs and a tie game while the away team, you take the chance to score. Cora is the manager, he gives the direction to the other coaches.

[S5Dewey]

To all those people who thought sending Nunez in the 9th was a bad decision,

 

Was it also a "bad decision" when the Jays sent a runner from 3rd in the second inning that allowed a run to score when Devers threw to the wrong side of the plate? That run and the run subsequent to it are what allowed the game to go into extra innings where the Jays eventually won.

 

I have no problem with Nunez trying to score at that point. Yes, there was adequate time to have Nunez thrown out (obviously) but sometimes it's worthwhile to gamble on an errant throw.

[moonslav59]

To all those people who thought sending Nunez in the 9th was a bad decision,

 

Was it also a "bad decision" when the Jays sent a runner from 3rd in the second inning that allowed a run to score when Devers threw to the wrong side of the plate? That run and the run subsequent to it are what allowed the game to go into extra innings where the Jays eventually won.

 

I have no problem with Nunez trying to score at that point. Yes, there was adequate time to have Nunez thrown out (obviously) but sometimes it's worthwhile to gamble on an errant throw.

 

Apparently, any choice that fails is bad, and any choice that works is good.

[Maxbialystock]

S5dewey and moonslav make some good points. I was mad on the game thread because that's the right place to get mad plus Nunez was out by a mile plus holding Nunez at 3b would have kept the bases loaded and put even more pressure on the Jays pitcher(s), especially with Betts (who had a bad night at the plate) coming to bat.

 

I do think Cora has done a good job.

[moonslav59]

S5dewey and moonslav make some good points. I was mad on the game thread because that's the right place to get mad plus Nunez was out by a mile plus holding Nunez at 3b would have kept the bases loaded and put even more pressure on the Jays pitcher(s), especially with Betts (who had a bad night at the plate) coming to bat.

 

I do think Cora has done a good job.

 

Maybe Betts had a 30% chance of getting a hit.

 

What was the chance Nunez was going to be safe at home?

 

31%?

 

29%

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe Betts had a 30% chance of getting a hit.

 

What was the chance Nunez was going to be safe at home?

 

31%?

 

29%

 

I think OBP is the more relevant stat. Mookie's is .444 this year and .355 career.

[moonslav59]

I think OBP is the more relevant stat. Mookie's is .444 this year and .355 career.

 

Good point.

 

So, was the chances Nunez would be thown out higher or lower than about 35%?

 

When seen in this light, the choice to send Nunez was not horrible or clearly wrong.

 

It was a bang-bang choice. The throw was nice, so it looked like a horrible choice.

[a700hitter]

Good point.

 

So, was the chances Nunez would be thown out higher or lower than about 35%?

 

When seen in this light, the choice to send Nunez was not horrible or clearly wrong.

 

It was a bang-bang choice. The throw was nice, so it looked like a horrible choice.

Any catch-able ball by the catcher had him out easily. an offline throw relayed to the plate would also have had him. The only way he would have been safe would have been if the catcher had muffed the throw or the there had been an overthrow to the backstop.

[SoxnCycles]

S5dewey and moonslav make some good points. I was mad on the game thread because that's the right place to get mad plus Nunez was out by a mile plus holding Nunez at 3b would have kept the bases loaded and put even more pressure on the Jays pitcher(s), especially with Betts (who had a bad night at the plate) coming to bat.

 

I do think Cora has done a good job.

 

The majority of managers would've sent Nunez with 2 outs on the road.

Maybe they hold him if the offense had been performing better recently.

 

Late in a tie ball game, sometimes you just have to go for it.

[mvp 78]

The majority of managers would've sent Nunez with 2 outs on the road.

Maybe they hold him if the offense had been performing better recently.

 

Late in a tie ball game, sometimes you just have to go for it.

 

Very true.

[Maxbialystock]

A700hitter is right that it was it was not a great play/throw by Granderson, but it was a good play: he did come in on the single and fielded it cleanly and released it fairly quickly. His forward momentum helped make it a strong throw, but the throw was actually off-line, but on the 3B side, which worked well.

 

I like SoxnCycles saying it makes sense to gamble late in a road game. While Mookie's OBP is humoungous this season, it wasn't last night, so no guarantee he gets Nunez home even though a walk would do it.

[a700hitter]

 

Bad send. The cut-off man would have had him on a relay. He would only be safe on a total misfire. Add to this that th best hitter on the team was coming to bat against a struggling closer.

Edited April 25, 2018 by a700hitter

[dgalehouse]

A third base coach should be aware of the game situation , and have a plan before the play unfolds. In this case , the pitcher was struggling mightily , Betts was coming up next and Granderson , with a strong arm , was starting his throw before the runner even reached third base. Sending Nunez was clearly a blunder no matter how you try to spin it. He was out by the proverbial mile. " Send him in " Kim would have even been embarrassed .

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe

 

#RedSox have 14 outs on the bases, tops in MLB. Five at the plate, which is second. Still a small sample, but same issue as last season.

[Slasher9]

Fine. Forget the Pom first start game. Just look at the team won-lost record and don't forget to look at the close ones when the manager might have been partly involved in the outcome. That alone should give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

But, fine again, don't consider the won-lost record. Just focus on the April 22 game 8th inning. Price gets an out and gives up 2 singles, at which point you want Carson Smith in there instead of Price. A fresh arm. But I say I want more than a fresh arm in a tie game with 2 men on in the 8th inning. I want a good arm, by which I mean someone who can throw good pitches when it's crunch time. Carson has pitched in 9 games and has the worst ERA and the lowest WAR (-.1) in the Sox bullpen. He has given up 6 walks in 7 innings. This year he has yet to pitch well with the game on the line and with runners on base when he goes into the game. I will grant you he probably would not have given up a dinger, but Oakland didn't need a dinger. All they needed was maybe a walk to move that runner to 3b and then a fly or a grounder with eyes to get thru the drawn in infield with 1 out. Or forget the walk and just get a single to bring the runner on 2b home.

 

Price, on the other hand, has had men on base several times in 5 starts and 27.2 innings and done pretty well up until that April 22 dinger. And up until that fatal pitch he had gone 7.2 innings while giving up 1 run and 1 walk. So I honestly think leaving him in is defensible.

 

I'm not talking about any of the other games. that is sort of the point. I have only questioned 2 decisions thus far this season. both of which I deem "rookie manager" mistakes. both of which I feel he will cleanup as he gets more experience. you can defend the decision to leave Price in the game until your blue in the face. that doesn't change the fact that it was a rookie manager mistake. he got intimidated into sitting on his hands. that will change.

[Slasher9]

No, it’s not. Running is situational. With two outs and a tie game while the away team, you take the chance to score. Cora is the manager, he gives the direction to the other coaches.

 

not with mookie betts coming up you don't.