The Alex Cora Managerial Decision Thread

[Maxbialystock]

https://www.overthemonster.com/2018/3/30/17178324/red-sox-alex-cora-managerial-decisions-joe-kelly-craig-kimbrel-carson-smith

 

It obviously didn’t go well, but I’m not sure you can put that on Cora for calling upon the righty at all. It was a four-run game, the Rays hadn’t done anything on offense all day, and Tampa had their bottom two hitters and Matt Duffy coming up. This wasn’t a tremendously high-leverage situation, and Kelly is at worst the fourth-best reliever in a bullpen that already used their third-best. Simply put, it’s a situation in which Kelly needs to come through, and he simply didn’t.

 

Cora allowed Kelly to face five batters in this game, and that was a mistake. It was pretty clear from the start that Kelly couldn’t locate his pitches in this outing, and while the umpire was squeezing him the control was a bigger issue than the strike zone. We know by now that Kelly has a tendency to lose the zone at times, and Cora needs to learn to be more proactive when this is the case. Ideally he would have been removed after the Duffy double, but he certainly should have been lifted after he walked Kiermaier.

 

Next, we have Cora going to Smith rather than going to Bobby Poyner with the left-handed Miller coming up. The manager’s reasoning for this was that it would have been too big of a spot for Poyner to make his major-league debut, and it’s a fair point. However, it does lead one to wonder why he was warming in the first place. I suppose it wouldn’t have been as bad if Kelly had gotten Carlos Gomez out, leaving two on in a three-run game with two outs against Miller compared to bases loaded and one out. It’s also fair to wonder why you’d put Poyner on the major-league roster in the first place if he’s not ready for this kind of outing, but that’s also not entirely on Cora. I think it probably would have been fine to go with Poyner, but at the same time Smith is a groundball machine who has never shown big platoon splits. He should be able to handle that spot, and arguably was a better choice than Poyner even if you don’t worry about the latter being ready for his major-league debut.

 

The biggest criticism of Cora, though, was not bringing Kimbrel in at all for the eighth inning. One of the Red Sox manager’s biggest talking points this winter has been a more aggressive usage of his closer and not being afraid to use Kimbrel before the ninth inning. However, according to Cora after the game, he and the Red Sox closer talked before the game and decided he would only pitch in a clean inning for Opening Day. That’s a bit strange, but once he and Kimbrel talked about it I’m fine not going back on that decision. Communication is key between relievers and a manager, and Cora needs to earn trust early in the year.

 

As for the decision to only use Kimbrel in a clean inning, Cora insists that this won’t be the case all year but only early on.

 

I frankly would never have brought Kimbrel into that particular 8th inning--not in the very first game of the season. Horrible precedent because it basically says, "only my closer for the 8th and 9th innings, even when we have a 4 (or even a 2 run) lead."

 

We have the benefit of hindsight. But even then my memory is that Kelly had at least two 8 pitch counts on walks which came on 3-2 counts. So close. Also, we should not forget that, while Smith walked the first guy to make the score 4-2, he struck out the second guy for the 2d out of the inning. The bases were still loaded, but we only needed one out. Me, I almost certainly stay with Smith, and I sure as heck don't bring in a newbie. Later in the season, sure, bring in Kimbrel for the last out.

[mvp 78]

Agree. I like to do most of my complaining on the game thread. Postgame, I like to be a little less nasty.

 

About Vazquez. During the game I was torqued about the two passed balls even though the second one didn't cost us. I also wonder about his pitch calling with the bullpen. Kelly in particular did not seem to have good command of his breaking stuff. Also, early on, I think Vazquez should have gone out to the mound.

 

Complaining in the game thread is your mod-given right. Can't fault anyone for that.

 

There are a few posters who typically get blocked from me during the season just because the only thing they can do is complain in game threads in uninteresting ways without any sense of humor. If you're gonna bitch and moan, at least be entertaining about it.

[mvp 78]

http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/local_sports/mason-alex-cora-responds-well-to-brutal-first-loss-as/article_fc461992-380d-5fec-a23c-87d4223f7588.html

 

Calm and measured, Cora was ready for it. He was first asked for comment on Kelly, and the new manager was refreshingly honest.

 

'He didn’t throw strikes," Cora said. "His stuff was there, but in that spot, with that lead, you have to attack. He was close. Just a few pitches off. You need to be aggressive. Walking guys, a lot of people, you create traffic. We were put in a bad spot, and you saw the result.”

 

It was different than what came from the same office a year ago.

 

By the end of the John Farrell era, the former Sox manager seemed to feel a need to defend his players' performances no matter what actually happened on the field. At times, he'd talk himself in circles, and sports radio hosts treated him like a pinata.

 

"At the end of the day, that’s pretty pathetic what I did," Kelly said bluntly. "Can’t do that."

 

Cora had spoken to Kimbrel before the game, and because of his abbreviated spring training, the closer wouldn't be asked to come into a dirty inning and get more than three outs.

 

“I’m not going to change my mind because there’s a lot of stuff going on there," Cora said. "We have a plan, and we’ve got to take care of the players, and that’s the way we’re going to take care of him right now. We know what he went through, short spring training. He’s ready to pitch, but don’t want to jeopardize his health just because there’s traffic in the eighth inning and we feel like if he comes in, it’s an option.

 

"For what we’re trying to accomplish here, we need him for the long run and not just to be 1-0 on Opening Day," Cora concluded.

 

“As a player, I was upset and you turn the page and show up tomorrow," Cora said. "As a manager, I’m upset, turn the page and show up tomorrow."

[Carbo-Diem]

Team captain Dustin Pedroia just weighed in on the heartbreaking loss in the opener. He stated "it wasn't me, it was them".

[moonslav59]

Complaining in the game thread is your mod-given right. Can't fault anyone for that.

 

There are a few posters who typically get blocked from me during the season just because the only thing they can do is complain in game threads in uninteresting ways without any sense of humor. If you're gonna bitch and moan, at least be entertaining about it.

 

It's one thing that has kept me away from most game threads for years. I'm not trying to come off as sanctimonious here, but it never ceases to amaze me how many posters rush to judgement on a player based on 1 pitch, 1 plate appearance, 1 play, 1 inning or even one full game.

 

Baseball is a game of millimeters. Kelly's no movement 100 mph fastball worked pretty good last year. Now, after one partial inning, he sucks. Cora sucks. Vaz sucks. HRam sucks. Mookie sucks.

 

It's just one freakin' game!

 

(Your next post was a great one, MVP, and it explains, pretty well to me, why we didn't see Kimbrel in the 8th. I guess, in hindsight, one could argue we could have brought Kimbrel in in the 8th and someone else in the 9th (Smith?), but imagine if we'd gotten out of the 8th and then Smith blew the 9th. There's still be intense rancor.)

 

I get the frustration and emotion that goes on during a meltdown. I've thought things like "YOU SUCK!" towards good player many times myself in the heat of the moment. I'm not trying to say or imply I'm better than anyone else, because maybe I can let go faster and more easily, but I'm just going to come out and say it. It bugs me how some poster hold onto a grudge or a feeling for so long and so intensely. The, one good performance the next day, and the same guy is great and a hero. I'm not sure how anyone can survive on such an emotional rollercoaster. I'd have died of a heart attack years ago.

[moonslav59]

Team captain Dustin Pedroia just weighed in on the heartbreaking loss in the opener. He stated "it wasn't me, it was them".

 

LOL!

 

Reportedly, Lester told his ex-teammates to "just have a beer and forget about it!"

[mvp 78]

Team captain Dustin Pedroia just weighed in on the heartbreaking loss in the opener. He stated "it wasn't me, it was them".

 

New poster of the year!

[mvp 78]

It's one thing that has kept me away from most game threads for years. I'm not trying to come off as sanctimonious here, but it never ceases to amaze me how many posters rush to judgement on a player based on 1 pitch, 1 plate appearance, 1 play, 1 inning or even one full game.

 

Join in. Just learn to use the ignore feature on some of the dumber posters and you'll enjoy it more.

[jacksonianmarch]

100 mph without movement suddenly becomes a LOT less special.

 

Joe Kelly is all fastball. His breaking stuff is not good and his location is poor. He reminds me of Kyle Farnsworth without the intimidation factor. You knew 100 was coming. You didn’t know if 100 was coming at your ear hole or over the plate. His erratic command actually helped him a bit as did his size and persona. Farnsworth was a bad dude. Joe Kelly looks like he works IT during the day and if he gets out of work on time, he can come throw the ball around at Fenway.

[sk7326]

Joe Kelly is all fastball. His breaking stuff is not good and his location is poor. He reminds me of Kyle Farnsworth without the intimidation factor. You knew 100 was coming. You didn’t know if 100 was coming at your ear hole or over the plate. His erratic command actually helped him a bit as did his size and persona. Farnsworth was a bad dude. Joe Kelly looks like he works IT during the day and if he gets out of work on time, he can come throw the ball around at Fenway.

 

Farnsworth had some movement - after all Tampa (ever the miracle workers with other team's garbage) got a terrific season out of him. Kelly is better as a reliever than a starter clearly - but you'd like your relievers to have at least one wipeout pitch.

[S5Dewey]

Team captain Dustin Pedroia just weighed in on the heartbreaking loss in the opener. He stated "it wasn't me, it was them".

 

And this qualifies as The Post of the Day!

[moonslav59]

Farnsworth had some movement - after all Tampa (ever the miracle workers with other team's garbage) got a terrific season out of him. Kelly is better as a reliever than a starter clearly - but you'd like your relievers to have at least one wipeout pitch.

 

Clearly, there are issues when someone throws that hard and has a K rate of just 6.9.

[Emp9]

Team captain Dustin Pedroia just weighed in on the heartbreaking loss in the opener. He stated "it wasn't me, it was them".

 

That’s f***ing classic.

[mvp 78]

Clearly, there are issues when someone throws that hard and has a K rate of just 6.9.

 

8.16 since 2015.

[Maxbialystock]

It's one thing that has kept me away from most game threads for years. I'm not trying to come off as sanctimonious here, but it never ceases to amaze me how many posters rush to judgement on a player based on 1 pitch, 1 plate appearance, 1 play, 1 inning or even one full game.

 

Baseball is a game of millimeters. Kelly's no movement 100 mph fastball worked pretty good last year. Now, after one partial inning, he sucks. Cora sucks. Vaz sucks. HRam sucks. Mookie sucks.

 

It's just one freakin' game!

 

(Your next post was a great one, MVP, and it explains, pretty well to me, why we didn't see Kimbrel in the 8th. I guess, in hindsight, one could argue we could have brought Kimbrel in in the 8th and someone else in the 9th (Smith?), but imagine if we'd gotten out of the 8th and then Smith blew the 9th. There's still be intense rancor.)

 

I get the frustration and emotion that goes on during a meltdown. I've thought things like "YOU SUCK!" towards good player many times myself in the heat of the moment. I'm not trying to say or imply I'm better than anyone else, because maybe I can let go faster and more easily, but I'm just going to come out and say it. It bugs me how some poster hold onto a grudge or a feeling for so long and so intensely. The, one good performance the next day, and the same guy is great and a hero. I'm not sure how anyone can survive on such an emotional rollercoaster. I'd have died of a heart attack years ago.

 

Good stuff, moonslav. Also agree that mvp78's discussion on Cora was spot on. During the game I was ready to shoot him. After the game, I changed my mind.

 

I really like mvp78's point that Cora ain't going to protect his relievers when they do what Kelly did. Also, Cora's memory of what happened with Kelly is exactly mine--he was only missing by a little, but he absolutely needed to attack the strike zone, not try to kiss it gently while passing by.

[a700hitter]

http://www.eagletribune.com/sports/local_sports/mason-alex-cora-responds-well-to-brutal-first-loss-as/article_fc461992-380d-5fec-a23c-87d4223f7588.html

 

Calm and measured, Cora was ready for it. He was first asked for comment on Kelly, and the new manager was refreshingly honest.

 

'He didn’t throw strikes," Cora said. "His stuff was there, but in that spot, with that lead, you have to attack. He was close. Just a few pitches off. You need to be aggressive. Walking guys, a lot of people, you create traffic. We were put in a bad spot, and you saw the result.”

 

It was different than what came from the same office a year ago.

 

By the end of the John Farrell era, the former Sox manager seemed to feel a need to defend his players' performances no matter what actually happened on the field. At times, he'd talk himself in circles, and sports radio hosts treated him like a pinata.

 

"At the end of the day, that’s pretty pathetic what I did," Kelly said bluntly. "Can’t do that."

 

Cora had spoken to Kimbrel before the game, and because of his abbreviated spring training, the closer wouldn't be asked to come into a dirty inning and get more than three outs.

 

“I’m not going to change my mind because there’s a lot of stuff going on there," Cora said. "We have a plan, and we’ve got to take care of the players, and that’s the way we’re going to take care of him right now. We know what he went through, short spring training. He’s ready to pitch, but don’t want to jeopardize his health just because there’s traffic in the eighth inning and we feel like if he comes in, it’s an option.

 

"For what we’re trying to accomplish here, we need him for the long run and not just to be 1-0 on Opening Day," Cora concluded.

 

“As a player, I was upset and you turn the page and show up tomorrow," Cora said. "As a manager, I’m upset, turn the page and show up tomorrow."

He said everything right except acknowledging that he sat there and reacted too slowly costing his team the game. how trite that he is going to turn the page as if he has any other choice. just a bunch of excuses, not really much different from what came out of Farrell's mouth after games -- just a different vocabulary. Farrell tried to make it soun like he was a baseball PhD.

[mvp 78]

He said everything right except acknowledging that he sat there and reacted too slowly costing his team the game. how trite that he is going to turn the page as if he has any other choice. just a bunch of excuses, not really much different from what came out of Farrell's mouth after games -- just a different vocabulary. Farrell tried to make it soun like he was a baseball PhD.

 

I just like that Cora had a plan and didn't get flustered into changing the plan. We'll obviously have to see how it works over the long haul.

[devildavid]

I guess Red Sox managers should take a page out of Bill Belichick's book when it comes to post game interviews. Provide less red meat for rabid Sox fans.

[mvp 78]

I guess Red Sox managers should take a page out of Bill Belichick's book when it comes to post game interviews. Provide less red meat for rabid Sox fans.

 

It only works for Bill because he wins. If he doesn't have the first 3 rings, that s*** would have been laughed out of New England.

[jung]

I just love being a fan of this team. First game of the season completed and BANG, we get an Alex Cora Managerial Decisions thread. I am not at all criticizing the thread. Not in the least. Like I said, I just love being a fan of this team.

[cp176]

I just love being a fan of this team. First game of the season completed and BANG, we get an Alex Cora Managerial Decisions thread. I am not at all criticizing the thread. Not in the least. Like I said, I just love being a fan of this team.

 

Good post and very true!

 

If we had won that game yesterday though I'm on safe ground with this opinion - There were still things that would have gotten criticized by some. Someone regardless of the score would have been critical of the following:

baserunning blunders (whether they were or not)

Ramirez - 0 for whatever so we need to sit him down so the option doesn't vest

Martinez - waste of money - look at Stanton

Why have Poyner even up if you aren't going to use him

JBJ is still in a slump

Should have kept Sale in for one more inning

should have held Nunez at second because of his fragile knee

Vazquez surly can't catch a cold

Nunez sucks in the field (even though the only errors I think were made by Vazquez) his range may not be great but he made the plays.

 

 

Welcome to the World of managing in New England Alex Cora. I'm kind of chuckling right now but it is who we are up here. We care about our teams and yes we have a lot to be thankful for. Yesterday sucked for sure but we got tonight!

[Kimmi]

It's a very long season - these are the sorts of decisions I would get angrier about later in the season. In reality the team has to be able to show they can hold a 4 run lead. Seriously, if you can't win a game like this without going to a postseason strategy, that is a problem of its own.

 

In reality - while Cora will say he will use the closer at the best time, during the slog of the season that really means the odd 4-6 out save. Do you put Kimbrel out for a 5 out save on Day 1? Carson Smith HAS to be entrusted for this job. It's a maddening loss. But it's baseball.

 

A voice of reason.

[Kimmi]

I never said Kelly wasn't bad, he sucked lex steele sized dicks. that doesn't mean cora gets out of this blame free for the carson smith move. kimbrel or a lefty should be facing span, not carson smith who had moments ago just walked in a run with the bases loaded...

 

You cannot manage an April (or March) game the same way you would manage a September game. You just can't. You'd blow out your pen by June. IMO, Cora left Kelly in one batter too long, but even that decision can be defended, being the first game of the season.

 

Francona said it best, and I'm stealing this from Speier: There were instances when accepting an increased risk of one loss was the right thing to do for the sake of his team’s well-being in the bigger picture.

[Kimmi]

Are you guys serious with this Kelly "shouldn't even be on the roster" ********? He was horrendous today obviously, but he was a very solid reliever last year, and teams carry 7-8 relievers. If you don't think Joe Kelly is a top 7 reliever on the Sox roster, you don't know what your talking about.

 

Thank you.

[Kimmi]

I agree with this philosophy and I’m not sure why a veteran manager like Francona employs this and nobody else does. Francona uses his best reliever in the highest leverage situations (Miller). It might be the 7th or 8th, but that’s where the game may be won or lost. Francona does have the benefit of having Cody Allen as well who a top notch level closer. Most people would just stack them 8th-9th, but he’ll use Miller in the 6th or 7th depending on situation. I think we will eventually see a shift towards this. Pens with 2 closer level pitchers, one reserved each game for traditional closer role and the other as a swing guy capable of neutralizing jams before the 9th

 

I agree with this philosophy as well. Yesterday's game just wasn't the time to employ it.

[Kimmi]

I hope Alex knew what he was getting himself into when he signed his contract. He should have for sure.

 

Not the way that I wanted to see Cora start his season, having to face the hound dogs right away, but he knows what it's like to play in Boston.

 

He'll be fine.

[Kimmi]

Farrell would have won this game.

 

Ha!

[moonslav59]

Not the way that I wanted to see Cora start his season, having to face the hound dogs right away, but he knows what it's like to play in Boston.

 

He'll be fine.

 

I totally agree.

 

I'm still glad we hired Coraa.

 

I'm pretty sure our pen is going to be an overall plus this season.

[Kimmi]

Agree. I like to do most of my complaining on the game thread. Postgame, I like to be a little less nasty.

 

About Vazquez. During the game I was torqued about the two passed balls even though the second one didn't cost us. I also wonder about his pitch calling with the bullpen. Kelly in particular did not seem to have good command of his breaking stuff. Also, early on, I think Vazquez should have gone out to the mound.

 

Two OOBs already.

 

Cora defended both of them. Sounds a lot like Farrell.

[Kimmi]

I just like that Cora had a plan and didn't get flustered into changing the plan. We'll obviously have to see how it works over the long haul.

 

OTOH, this is what Farrell got criticized often about - not being able to change the plan when the game situation called for it. Not that I agree with that criticism, just pointing that out.