A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[moonslav59]

i dont think nunie is the answer this season for fulltime 2b for a championship run. i believe he is still injured.

 

It seems that way, but I think he can play better than he has, so far.

[moonslav59]

I think he just likes Nunez.

 

Nunez is better vs RHPs than LHPs- this year and career.

 

Holt is better vs LHPs- this year by a ton & career.

 

They both have significant reverse splits.

 

That is probably why Cora played Nunez vs the RH'd starter, and he's the manager- not one of us..

[Slasher9]

Nunez is better vs RHPs than LHPs- this year and career.

 

Holt is better vs LHPs- this year by a ton & career.

 

They both have significant reverse splits.

 

That is probably why Cora played Nunez vs the RH'd starter, and he's the manager- not one of us..

 

still with the offense.....he should never play a negative dwar infielder with a groundball knuckler on the mound.

[Maxbialystock]

The days of buying Indulgences are long gone.

 

He wasn't buying indulgences. He was just being philanthropic. Yawkey bought the Sox in 1933 when racism was rampant in America, including lynchings, lots of lynchings.

 

His sin--not even a crime--was in not hiring the likes of Jackie Robinson to play baseball for the Boston Red Sox. If this was a grave sin--thus requiring the purchase of an indulgence--why in the wide, wide world of sports is Branch Rickey still celebrated for his courage and vision in making Jackie Robinson a Dodger in 1947, one year before Harry Truman integrated the Armed Services?

 

More to the point, no African American MLB-caliber players suffered because of Yawkey's prejudice and shortsightedness because other teams quickly saw the value of raiding the Negro League which had tons of available talent. I believe I am correct that the Negro National League folded in 1948--1948!!!!!--because MLB and even MILB were happy to hire talented African American players.

 

Yawkey's shortsightedness only hurt his team, but it did not deny employment to talented players. He spent a lot of money on players because he wanted to win, but held out for 12 years (until 1959) before signing Pumpsie Green.

 

I am not defending Yawkey and am fine with renaming Yawkey Way, which is a rightful decision by the people and government of Boston. I am also not arguing Yawkey wasn't racist, but I am definitely saying there are degrees of racism which, by the way, is still with us today. Yawkey's racism was to me almost benign. If you listen to or read about Bill Russell, whose amazing NBA career, 1956-69, was entirely in Boston, he would tell you Boston fans were very racist, as indeed the city was.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

still with the offense.....he should never play a negative dwar infielder with a groundball knuckler on the mound.

 

I'm big on defense, but never is a strong word. It's not like holt is all that much better on D, and our offense has needed all the help it can get.

[moonslav59]

He wasn't buying indulgences. He was just being philanthropic. Yawkey bought the Sox in 1933 when racism was rampant in America, including lynchings, lots of lynchings.

 

His sin--not even a crime--was in not hiring the likes of Jackie Robinson to play baseball for the Boston Red Sox. If this was a grave sin--thus requiring the purchase of an indulgence--why in the wide, wide world of sports is Branch Rickey still celebrated for his courage and vision in making Jackie Robinson a Dodger in 1947, one year before Harry Truman integrated the Armed Services?

 

More to the point, no African American MLB-caliber players suffered because of Yawkey's prejudice and shortsightedness because other teams quickly saw the value of raiding the Negro League which had tons of available talent. I believe I am correct that the Negro National League folded in 1948--1948!!!!!--because MLB and even MILB were happy to hire talented African American players.

 

Yawkey's shortsightedness only hurt his team, but it did not deny employment to talented players. He spent a lot of money on players because he wanted to win, but held out for 12 years (until 1959) before signing Pumpsie Green.

 

I am not defending Yawkey and am fine with renaming Yawkey Way, which is a rightful decision by the people and government of Boston. I am also not arguing Yawkey wasn't racist, but I am definitely saying there are degrees of racism which, by the way, is still with us today. Yawkey's racism was to me almost benign. If you listen to or read about Bill Russell, whose amazing NBA career, 1956-69, was entirely in Boston, he would tell you Boston fans were very racist, as indeed the city was.

 

No Afican American suffered?

 

1) That's not true. More worthy players would have made the bugs.

 

2) That's a poor gauge to judge with.

[Slasher9]

I'm big on defense, but never is a strong word. It's not like holt is all that much better on D, and our offense has needed all the help it can get.

 

your right never is too strong. but i will still say it made zero sense to start nunez 2 nights ago and have holt on the bench.

[moonslav59]

your right never is too strong. but i will still say it made zero sense to start nunez 2 nights ago and have holt on the bench.

 

I can see the point in starting Holt, but to say "zero sense" when Nunez has been way better than Holt offensively vs RHPs is hyperbole.

[OH FOY]

Hardest debate of them all Defense vs. Offense. For me, I'd rather look at the match-ups for that day. If your facing a tough Pitcher where runs are going to be tough to get, I'll take the Defense. If I'm facing a Pitcher that we should handle pretty easily, I'll go Offense, get the Runs, then play Defense later in the game, to prevent them.

[Maxbialystock]

No Afican American suffered?

 

1) That's not true. More worthy players would have made the bugs.

 

2) That's a poor gauge to judge with.

 

Not playing baseball for a MLB team is not nor ever has been "suffering." We still have racial ills and prejudices that do far more damage. Even little things in our everyday lives can do some small damage. We can do just fine without a "Yawkey Way," but I see no need to make him into a latter day Simon Legree.

[Spudboy]

Filia reminds me of Mike Ford for us. A guy who killed levels when he was older than them and had insane OBP skills who didn't translate when given a chance at the big show. A lot of guys are like that. If he truly is one of the rare late bloomers, then its a steal. Most of these guys end up being AAAA fodder

 

This is taken from the chart.

[harmony]

Filia reminds me of Mike Ford for us. A guy who killed levels when he was older than them and had insane OBP skills who didn't translate when given a chance at the big show. A lot of guys are like that. If he truly is one of the rare late bloomers, then its a steal. Most of these guys end up being AAAA fodder

That's not a bad comp.

 

Eric Filia's upside might be Daniel Nava.

[moonslav59]

That's not a bad comp.

 

Eric Filia's upside might be Daniel Nava.

 

What would his upside be had he remained with the M's?

[notin]

What would his upside be had he remained with the M's?

 

Mike Wilson

[moonslav59]

Mike Wilson

 

I was thinking Alex Hassan.

[cp176]

He wasn't buying indulgences. He was just being philanthropic. Yawkey bought the Sox in 1933 when racism was rampant in America, including lynchings, lots of lynchings.

 

His sin--not even a crime--was in not hiring the likes of Jackie Robinson to play baseball for the Boston Red Sox. If this was a grave sin--thus requiring the purchase of an indulgence--why in the wide, wide world of sports is Branch Rickey still celebrated for his courage and vision in making Jackie Robinson a Dodger in 1947, one year before Harry Truman integrated the Armed Services?

 

More to the point, no African American MLB-caliber players suffered because of Yawkey's prejudice and shortsightedness because other teams quickly saw the value of raiding the Negro League which had tons of available talent. I believe I am correct that the Negro National League folded in 1948--1948!!!!!--because MLB and even MILB were happy to hire talented African American players.

 

Yawkey's shortsightedness only hurt his team, but it did not deny employment to talented players. He spent a lot of money on players because he wanted to win, but held out for 12 years (until 1959) before signing Pumpsie Green.

 

I am not defending Yawkey and am fine with renaming Yawkey Way, which is a rightful decision by the people and government of Boston. I am also not arguing Yawkey wasn't racist, but I am definitely saying there are degrees of racism which, by the way, is still with us today. Yawkey's racism was to me almost benign. If you listen to or read about Bill Russell, whose amazing NBA career, 1956-69, was entirely in Boston, he would tell you Boston fans were very racist, as indeed the city was.

 

This my friend is an excellent post. "Go Up For Glory" was one of my best reads as a kid and a die hard Celtics fan. Russell prevailed and thrived in an extremely difficult environment. This is why I absolutely hate mixing athletics with politics in general. I was a fan of the RedSox as I am today beginning in the fifties. In all honesty I did not know who the owner was. I did not care nor do I particularly care today. I really don't give a s*** about what color you are or anyone happens to be or my God forgive me what your sexual preferences might be. We all have our own story to tell. if we are lucky we make it. Everytime the Yawkey name is used in reference to racism tends to vilify the family and the family foundation. I think that that is absolute ******** and the height of hypocrisy.

[moonslav59]

Nobody is slamming the foundation. Yawkey was a racist. Racism was present in the Sox organization at least up to the Tommy Harper issues.

 

I'm still a huge Sox fan, so Obviously some of us are able to look beyond him and that era.

 

It's not hypocrisy to call it the way we see it, and not sugar coat anything just because many intelligent people did racists things back in that day. There were countless people who stood up to it. It demeans their lives and history to sugar coat racism because everyone was doing it.

 

[a700hitter]

Nobody is slamming the foundation. Yawkey was a racist. Racism was present in the Sox organization at least up to the Tommy Harper issues.

 

I'm still a huge Sox fan, so Obviously some of us are able to look beyond him and that era.

 

It's not hypocrisy to call it the way we see it, and not sugar coat anything just because many intelligent people did racists things back in that day. There were countless people who stood up to it. It demeans their lives and history to sugar coat racism because everyone was doing it.

 

Racism should never be sugarcoated, nor should we sit in judgment of others where we define a person's entire life based on what we believe was in that person's heart on a particular issue.

[moonslav59]

Racism should never be sugarcoated, nor should we sit in judgment of others where we define a person's entire life based on what we believe was in that person's heart on a particular issue.

 

Very true. Nothing is ever as black and white (pun intended) as it seems. Yawkey did a lot of good, as did the ruthless SOB Andrew Carnegie.

 

There's always gray area, but let's not sugar coat the bad or ignore the good.

[cp176]

Very true. Nothing is ever as black and white (pun intended) as it seems. Yawkey did a lot of good, as did the ruthless SOB Andrew Carnegie.

 

There's always gray area, but let's not sugar coat the bad or ignore the good.

 

 

It is absolutely a never-ending list of people who have been extremely successful and have done amazing things with their lives who could be accused of all types of things that just don't seem to be acceptable when taking the high road today. We do not live in a perfect world. I really hope that you aren't suggesting that any of my comments seem to be sugar coating the bad to use your words. I am just not as quick as some to make judgement calls on the lifework of people that I really do not know very much about. Sorry but I guess that I am one of those people who like to look at the good before considering the bad.

[cp176]

Nobody is slamming the foundation. Yawkey was a racist. Racism was present in the Sox organization at least up to the Tommy Harper issues.

 

I'm still a huge Sox fan, so Obviously some of us are able to look beyond him and that era.

 

It's not hypocrisy to call it the way we see it, and not sugar coat anything just because many intelligent people did racists things back in that day. There were countless people who stood up to it. It demeans their lives and history to sugar coat racism because everyone was doing it.

 

 

 

I agree that no one to my knowledge has knowingly slammed the foundation but for anyone to assume that the people who make up the foundation have not been negatively affedted by all this is ridiculous.

[moonslav59]

It is absolutely a never-ending list of people who have been extremely successful and have done amazing things with their lives who could be accused of all types of things that just don't seem to be acceptable when taking the high road today. We do not live in a perfect world. I really hope that you aren't suggesting that any of my comments seem to be sugar coating the bad to use your words. I am just not as quick as some to make judgement calls on the lifework of people that I really do not know very much about. Sorry but I guess that I am one of those people who like to look at the good before considering the bad.

 

No, I was not suggesting you were sugar-coating the bad, and you made a point I should have made in my original criticism of the first post.

 

I'm turning 60 next year, and if there's one thing I've learned over my time, is that just about nobody is all bad or all good. We all are imperfect beings. There is rampant racism and genocide going on in our time, so I guess it makes me cringe a bit, when people bring up the "that era" argument. Are all of us doing the best or most we can within our busy lives to end it? I doubt it. I know I try to my part, but I could do more, and in the future, I could be judged as "going along" with my era too much.

 

Let's get back to baseball. I'm not trying to get the last word in, here. I'm just not wanting this site to become too political. I come here to get away from all that, despite being guilty off taking part in it from time to time.

 

[moonslav59]

I agree that no one to my knowledge has knowingly slammed the foundation but for anyone to assume that the people who make up the foundation have not been negatively affedted by all this is ridiculous.

 

It is a shame, but I'm not sure it should be called ridiculous. What was said needed to be said, and if people twist it out of proportion, then yes, that is sad, but hopefully those people are giving to other worthy causes, and we're not losing any net charity.

[cp176]

yes yes right back to baseball -

[moonslav59]

Big win tonight.

 

Nice to see Bogey with the big hit, JBj get an RBI and Devers get on base.

 

Mr. Tingles is making his haters tingle down their spines.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Well, we disagree. When I lived in So Dakota, I heard the word 'redskins' and 'skins' dozens, maybe hundreds of times. Not once, that is NEVER, did I hear it used in a positive or even a neutral sense. It was always pejorative. I don't think that Washington fans who use it see themselves as racists, nor do I think you are. But on the plains, that's a different story. (As for Boston and Washington having racist owners "a thousand years ago," you must be a lot younger than me, despite your screen name!)

 

 

Wait I was not talking about the name, I was addressing the idea that the teams had racist histories because they were the last to integrate. That was so long ago it's not fair to label the teams today.

 

As for the name Redskins I was in you camp forever, I thought it was offensive and could not understand how anyone could not. But the polls don't lie and the overwhelming response from Native Americans is many more like the name and want it retained then the other way. IMO we should listen to NAs, their opinion is the only one that matters.

[oldtimer]

Big win tonight.

 

Nice to see Bogey with the big hit, JBj get an RBI and Devers get on base.

 

Mr. Tingles is making his haters tingle down their spines.

 

What offense there was last night came from atypical sources. Bogey of course has been solid this year but JBJ and Vaz getting hits are good signs. I for one do not want to talk about Price using the seemingly disparaging name of Mr. Tingles. He has and is earning respect with his recent performances. It was a huge win although it was too late for me as I am recovering from a couple of long softball games in the heat.

[kenmeister]

I've noticed Mitch Moreland is cooling down. I guess it was only a matter of time.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I've noticed Mitch Moreland is cooling down. I guess it was only a matter of time.

 

 

Just as we were discussing a few days ago this was inevitable and the others at the bottom need to pick up the slack. I like the lineup last night, i think that's their best 8 right now.

[Maxbialystock]

What offense there was last night came from atypical sources. Bogey of course has been solid this year but JBJ and Vaz getting hits are good signs. I for one do not want to talk about Price using the seemingly disparaging name of Mr. Tingles. He has and is earning respect with his recent performances. It was a huge win although it was too late for me as I am recovering from a couple of long softball games in the heat.

 

Price is getting $30M a year, so words can never hurt him--at least not on TalkSox. I do agree he is looking awfully good this year. In fact, he is a big reason the Sox have been so successful so far. And thank goodness it was just a tingle that went away.

 

Porcello up tonight, and he too is vastly better than last year. Just in time. ERod is better too. And Wright right now is astounding--which moonslav kept saying he would be.

 

And something else. I think this team has a toughness I didn't see last year. Forget all those early streaks. I mean the first two games at Yankee Stadium when the Sox were faltering--inevitably--and the Yankees looked like the biggest bully on the block. The Sox lost both games but could have won both and did win the third. They have also been winning games with Mookie on the bench and with Mookie and JDM on the bench.

 

The above is why these days I absolutely refuse to question a Cora lineup because I think whatever he is doing is working with these guys. He stayed with JBJ when I was ready to shoot him. He's stayed with both catchers. He dumped Hanley. He kept Holt and has used him. Now Holt looks like Nunez 2017 and everyone is on his bandwagon and ready to dump Nunez 2018--except Cora. No doubt at DD's insistence, he has even found ways to get Swihart--whose OPS is headed toward the mendoza line--out there. He even caught a game.

 

I think the defense is about average. Terrific outfield with JBJ in CF of course. And I do not see JDM as a disaster out there. Devers keeps getting better at 3b--as predicted by me because I know all (actually, not much), Bogaerts works his buns off at SS and wants to stay there, Moreland above average at 1B, and no-range Nunez at 2B. I frankly think the defensive catching is pretty good overall and fall back on moonslav's infamous CERA for making that claim.

 

And boy oh boy do I love a 2-1 win over a hot team 3 time zones away.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Maxbialystock