Red Sox To Sign J.D. Martinez

[Kimmi]

One thing's for sure, if we didn't sign JD we'd be cursing out DD pretty good these days.

 

If somebody else signed him for the same or very similar deal, AND he were having the same type of year, probably.

 

OTOH, if the Sox were still 5 games up in the division, maybe not.

[Bellhorn04]

If somebody else signed him for the same or very similar deal, AND he were having the same type of year, probably.

 

OTOH, if the Sox were still 5 games up in the division, maybe not.

 

Some fans, like you, would be reasonable about it. Some, not so much.

[OH FOY]

These are unreal stats.

RISP .368... 66 RBI's

2 Outs and RISP .377 28 RBI's.

I say this was a pretty good signing.

 

94 RBI's when it matters. Again like any stat that has the word Run it. At end of the game this word determines Wins and Losses.

Edited August 15, 2018 by OH FOY!

[greenwell]

These are unreal stats.

RISP .368... 66 RBI's

2 Outs and RISP .377 28 RBI's.

I say this was a pretty good signing.

 

94 RBI's when it matters. Again like any stat that has the word Run it. At end of the game this word determines Wins and Losses.

 

I'm not saying he's not insanely good, but the 28 rbi's with 2 out and RISP are included in the 66 with RISP

[OH FOY]

Thanks didn't know that. I figured RISP with less then 2 Out, and another category with 2 Outs. That would make sense to me, because 2 different entire situations, because of Outs. Edited August 15, 2018 by OH FOY!

[cp176]

As silly as it is to think that JD Martinez is solely responsible for the hitting resurgence that our guys are experiencing, Personally I think that it is just as silly to think that they would all be having the years that they have had to date without him in the lineup. It is obvious that to a man his influence has been felt in a positive way, whether it is through the protection he provides or simply from the advice and coaching that he has given. It really is a good situation for all and not really worth arguing over something that once again cannot be proven.There are lots of things that can't be proven by the way. It doesn't make them wrong.

[moonslav59]

As silly as it is to think that JD Martinez is solely responsible for the hitting resurgence that our guys are experiencing, Personally I think that it is just as silly to think that they would all be having the years that they have had to date without him in the lineup. It is obvious that to a man his influence has been felt in a positive way, whether it is through the protection he provides or simply from the advice and coaching that he has given. It really is a good situation for all and not really worth arguing over something that once again cannot be proven.There are lots of things that can't be proven by the way. It doesn't make them wrong.

 

Exactly. Probably just about everyone (except Vaz) would have been doing better without JD, but he surely has helped some (maybe most) do better than if he wasn't here.

[vegasbob]

These are unreal stats.

RISP .368... 66 RBI's

2 Outs and RISP .377 28 RBI's.

I say this was a pretty good signing.

 

94 RBI's when it matters. Again like any stat that has the word Run it. At end of the game this word determines Wins and Losses.

 

I am confused. I thought FWAR, fWar and UZR determined the league champions . Please clarify. Scoring more runs than the opponent on any given day wins games. I think the stats show which guys should be playing , so they have their use.

[cp176]

Exactly. Probably just about everyone (except Vaz) would have been doing better without JD, but he surely has helped some (maybe most) do better than if he wasn't here.

 

I'm glad that you said probably here Moon. If the Red Sox had not signed JD Martinez simply because they assumed and hoped that everybody would have hit better this year just because, it would have been a foolish risk to take. I just finished reading the article about JD written in SI. I knew they I liked him and what he has brought to our team, now I know why I really like him. I like him just as much for what he does personally as I do for the ways in which he has helped our young players develop their hitting skills. It was a great read particularly if people can get by how he felt about the reasons Houston released him. I bet a clear majority of the payers playing the game have many of the same feelings that he has. Regardless of what the statistical odds say, it is possible to still get better.

[Emp9]

I am sure we would still be in first place without JD. Maybe with a 5 game lead instead of a 10 game lead.

 

Agreed

[moonslav59]

I'm glad that you said probably here Moon. If the Red Sox had not signed JD Martinez simply because they assumed and hoped that everybody would have hit better this year just because, it would have been a foolish risk to take. I just finished reading the article about JD written in SI. I knew they I liked him and what he has brought to our team, now I know why I really like him. I like him just as much for what he does personally as I do for the ways in which he has helped our young players develop their hitting skills. It was a great read particularly if people can get by how he felt about the reasons Houston released him. I bet a clear majority of the payers playing the game have many of the same feelings that he has. Regardless of what the statistical odds say, it is possible to still get better.

 

Well put. I will add that had we not signed JD, I'm pretty sure DD would have signed someone else. many of the other choices have been duds, but had he signed someone else that is doing well, maybe the loss of JD might not have been as bad as some think it might have been.

 

I'm sure glad we signed him, and I loved the signing at the time. I do believe he has helped others do better this year than had he not been here. I'm not sure by how much, but I am pretty certain he has helped.

[Emp9]

 

Sure, there are going to be times when the guy in front of JD gets a fastball right down Broadway because JD is due up next. Is the hitter going to hit it any more often than he otherwise would get a hit? On average, nope.

 

Ok, part of this difference in views is that you’re talking about a result and I’m talking about an opportunity. An opportunity doesn’t guarantee a certain result, but the more opportunities present themselves the better. I’m talking chances. You’re talking averages. Besides, Averages do miss things.

 

Anytime a batter can narrow down what a pitcher is going to throw and where is a huge advantage for the batter. Again, It’s not a guarantee. It’s up to the batter to make the most out of that opportunity. Fail or succeed, the opportunity did present itself regardless.

[Kimmi]

Well put. I will add that had we not signed JD, I'm pretty sure DD would have signed someone else. many of the other choices have been duds, but had he signed someone else that is doing well, maybe the loss of JD might not have been as bad as some think it might have been.

 

I'm sure glad we signed him, and I loved the signing at the time. I do believe he has helped others do better this year than had he not been here. I'm not sure by how much, but I am pretty certain he has helped.

 

I don't think anyone has argued against JD helping the other players through leadership and coaching. My argument is that:

 

1. The offense would have improved significantly even without JD.

2. JD is not improving the line up through 'protection'.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think anyone has argued against JD helping the other players through leadership and coaching. My argument is that:

 

1. The offense would have improved significantly even without JD.

2. JD is not improving the line up through 'protection'.

 

The coaching is the big X factor. If JD really did give Mookie some useful stuff with his swing and his approach, that would be pretty big in itself.

[Slasher9]

I don't think anyone has argued against JD helping the other players through leadership and coaching. My argument is that:

 

1. The offense would have improved significantly even without JD.

2. JD is not improving the line up through 'protection'.

 

do you believe in the mental aspect of hitting?

if you do, then 100% JD has improved the lineup through "protection". the players around him believe it so that belief translates to mental confidence. that confidence translates into better AB's. better AB's = "protection".

if you dont believe hitting is part mental, then.......

[S5Dewey]

The coaching is the big X factor. If JD really did give Mookie some useful stuff with his swing and his approach, that would be pretty big in itself.

 

I think about coaching some as it pertains to Devers, too. Butterfield was credited with helping Bogaerts at both SS & 3rd as well as helping Hanley at 1B. IMO letting Butterfield walk may have been the biggest mistake of the off season.

[moonslav59]

I don't think anyone has argued against JD helping the other players through leadership and coaching. My argument is that:

 

1. The offense would have improved significantly even without JD.

2. JD is not improving the line up through 'protection'.

 

I totally agree with #1, but think JD probably helped them improve even more than they would have without him.

 

I'm not big on the "protection" argument, but I do think hot hitting is often contagious or rubs off on other players.

[cp176]

do you believe in the mental aspect of hitting?

if you do, then 100% JD has improved the lineup through "protection". the players around him believe it so that belief translates to mental confidence. that confidence translates into better AB's. better AB's = "protection".

if you dont believe hitting is part mental, then.......

 

I like this one. I actually believe that a great deal of success in any sport at any level cannot be accomplished without a certain type of mental approach. It has never been just about the talent. If the players are serious with respect to the article in SI that I just read, it is good enough for me.

[Kimmi]

The coaching is the big X factor. If JD really did give Mookie some useful stuff with his swing and his approach, that would be pretty big in itself.

 

It could be. If Mookie had hit in 2016 like he did in 2017, I'd be more inclined to believe that JD was a huge factor. But because Mookie was an MVP candidate in 2016 who regressed in 2017, but was entering his prime, I'm more inclined to think most of it was going to happen anyway.

 

I'm not saying JD didn't help Mookie. I think both he and Cora helped Mookie with his approach, but I really think we would have seen a big bounce back from Mookie even if we had the exact same team from last year, including Farrell.

[Bellhorn04]

It could be. If Mookie had hit in 2016 like he did in 2017, I'd be more inclined to believe that JD was a huge factor. But because Mookie was an MVP candidate in 2016 who regressed in 2017, but was entering his prime, I'm more inclined to think most of it was going to happen anyway.

 

I'm not saying JD didn't help Mookie. I think both he and Cora helped Mookie with his approach, but I really think we would have seen a big bounce back from Mookie even if we had the exact same team from last year, including Farrell.

 

Of course Mookie hasn't merely bounced back offensively this year, he has rocketed into the stratosphere.

 

It might have all happened anyway, sure, there's really no way of knowing.

[Kimmi]

do you believe in the mental aspect of hitting?

if you do, then 100% JD has improved the lineup through "protection". the players around him believe it so that belief translates to mental confidence. that confidence translates into better AB's. better AB's = "protection".

if you dont believe hitting is part mental, then.......

 

The idea of the players feeling more confident with JD in the line up is a fair and valid one. I can buy into JD helping others through 'intangibles', and have stated this in previous posts.

 

This is not line up protection though.

 

IMO, Cora has also made the line up better through intangibles such as instilling confidence in players and alleviating some of the pressure they might have felt last year. Not the same thing as line up protection.

 

FTR, let me be clear. I absolutely think the line up would have improved significantly even without JD. However, I can believe that JD has made them a little better than they would have been otherwise through his leadership and coaching, etc.

[Kimmi]

I totally agree with #1, but think JD probably helped them improve even more than they would have without him.

 

I'm not big on the "protection" argument, but I do think hot hitting is often contagious or rubs off on other players.

 

I agree with your first sentence.

 

On your second point, there might be something to hitting being contagious within a game, or maybe it's just the pitcher going through a rough patch. OTOH, the ability of a team to cluster hits (or avoid the clustering of hits if you're a pitcher) is mostly random.

[Kimmi]

Of course Mookie hasn't merely bounced back offensively this year, he has rocketed into the stratosphere.

 

It might have all happened anyway, sure, there's really no way of knowing.

 

Right, but Mookie is a great player who is also entering his prime. That's a good combination for the way his offense has skyrocketed.

 

No, there's no way of knowing how much JD has impacted the rest of the team.

 

As I've said, on that level, I really wish that we could have played the season without JD, because I knew that once we signed him, he would get all of the credit. IMO, this was a great offense to begin with.

[moonslav59]

Right, but Mookie is a great player who is also entering his prime. That's a good combination for the way his offense has skyrocketed.

 

No, there's no way of knowing how much JD has impacted the rest of the team.

 

As I've said, on that level, I really wish that we could have played the season without JD, because I knew that once we signed him, he would get all of the credit. IMO, this was a great offense to begin with.

 

Even if JD gets no credit for "protection" or coaching others to do better than they otherwise would have done, his offense has greatly improved our offense from what it would have been with HRam, Swihart and Nunez as our DH all year.

[Kimmi]

Ok, part of this difference in views is that you’re talking about a result and I’m talking about an opportunity. An opportunity doesn’t guarantee a certain result, but the more opportunities present themselves the better. I’m talking chances. You’re talking averages. Besides, Averages do miss things.

 

Anytime a batter can narrow down what a pitcher is going to throw and where is a huge advantage for the batter. Again, It’s not a guarantee. It’s up to the batter to make the most out of that opportunity. Fail or succeed, the opportunity did present itself regardless.

 

I don't see how better opportunities really matters if the results are no different. Perhaps the opportunities are increased, but a batter's numbers do not improve because he has good hitters protecting him in a line up.

[Kimmi]

Even if JD gets no credit for "protection" or coaching others to do better than they otherwise would have done, his offense has greatly improved our offense from what it would have been with HRam, Swihart and Nunez as our DH all year.

 

No argument here. I completely agree.

[moonslav59]

I don't see how better opportunities really matters if the results are no different. Perhaps the opportunities are increased, but a batter's numbers do not improve because he has good hitters protecting him in a line up.

 

They might get more RBIs, but that's not really "protection" related.

[Emp9]

I don't see how better opportunities really matters if the results are no different. Perhaps the opportunities are increased, but a batter's numbers do not improve because he has good hitters protecting him in a line up.

 

Different to what? Game #36 is game #36. Game #105 is game #105.

[Kimmi]

Different to what? Game #36 is game #36. Game #105 is game #105.

 

You lost me. Which isn't hard to do.

[Emp9]

You lost me. Which isn't hard to do.

 

I just don’t see how a batter’s average could tell us anything about any particular game. Much less how an opponent handled a particular situation.