Spring Training 2018 Thread

[Kimmi]

Yeah but the sox leaving Holt off the 25???... I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

I don't really believe it either, but that's the way it should be.

 

I could see Holt taking a phantom DL stint to buy the Sox a little more time to sort things out.

[Kimmi]

Hmm. I just wonder why you think Swihart "won't reach Vasquez level" defensively.

 

And how is it not likely that he can be an average catcher with a pretty good stick?

 

I don't think he will reach Vazquez level defensively because I think Vazquez has the potential to be elite. He was headed there before he was set back by an injury and missed an entire season.

 

I didn't say that is was not likely that Swihart can be an average catcher.

[Kimmi]

Thank God fans don't run the team LOL

 

Amen to that!

[moonslav59]

I don't really believe it either, but that's the way it should be.

 

I could see Holt taking a phantom DL stint to buy the Sox a little more time to sort things out.

 

Holt doesn't need a phantom DL; he has an option left.

[moonslav59]

 

I didn't say that is was not likely that Swihart can be an average catcher.

 

I said it. I still think it, but it's not an impossibility.

[cp176]

As a sub, yes, but even then, he never "excited" ,e.

 

he has an option and everybody knows that if you have an option you go down before someone who doesn't have an option even if you are better than they are. That is pure sarcasm because I don't believe in that theory at all. Best players make the team. Now in Holt's case there really isn't much not to like but when you get the most at bats you have ever gotten in any season before or since on one of the poorest teams in baseball - that doesn't scream indispensable to me. Send him down and at least keep Marrero around for the glove.

[moonslav59]

he has an option and everybody knows that if you have an option you go down before someone who doesn't have an option even if you are better than they are. That is pure sarcasm because I don't believe in that theory at all. Best players make the team. Now in Holt's case there really isn't much not to like but when you get the most at bats you have ever gotten in any season before or since on one of the poorest teams in baseball - that doesn't scream indispensable to me. Send him down and at least keep Marrero around for the glove.

 

His defense has always been "not to like" to me.

 

Our infield defense needs some late inning help, so Marrero is the better choice, even without the option issue.

[cp176]

His defense has always been "not to like" to me.

 

Our infield defense needs some late inning help, so Marrero is the better choice, even without the option issue.

 

Agree

[notin]

he has an option and everybody knows that if you have an option you go down before someone who doesn't have an option even if you are better than they are. That is pure sarcasm because I don't believe in that theory at all. Best players make the team. Now in Holt's case there really isn't much not to like but when you get the most at bats you have ever gotten in any season before or since on one of the poorest teams in baseball - that doesn't scream indispensable to me. Send him down and at least keep Marrero around for the glove.

 

Actually sending down better players with options happens all the time. Remember that fit Tommy LaStella threw when the Cubs demoted him 2 years ago instead of DFAing a worthless Chris Coughlan?

[Larry Cook]

Did anybody watch sale pitch? Wow, he was incredible. If only we could bottle up his stuff as of now and unleash it to him in September.

[Spudboy]

I don't think he will reach Vazquez level defensively because I think Vazquez has the potential to be elite. He was headed there before he was set back by an injury and missed an entire season.

 

I didn't say that is was not likely that Swihart can be an average catcher.

 

Okay so you believe that Vazquez can still make it to elite level. Maybe so.

 

However, what is to prevent Swihart from achieving a similar goal? That fact that he is further away from being elite does not preclude his ability to improve significantly.

 

Unless he has some drastic deformity or incurable flaw in his mechanics I see no reason that Swihart could not become a very good catcher on both sides of the ball. Given the chance, that is.

 

He is already a superior athlete and most likely will continue to be so.

[cp176]

Actually sending down better players with options happens all the time. Remember that fit Tommy LaStella threw when the Cubs demoted him 2 years ago instead of DFAing a worthless Chris Coughlan?

 

Did I say that it doesn't happen? I think that I understand that it does. It probably isn't habit forming though. This topic has been pounded to death. Some of this would be determined by who gets to decide who the "better " player is. My opinion - it is a way of doing things that I detest.

[Bellhorn04]

Did I say that it doesn't happen? I think that I understand that it does. It probably isn't habit forming though. This topic has been pounded to death. Some of this would be determined by who gets to decide who the "better " player is. My opinion - it is a way of doing things that I detest.

 

I understand how you feel. The roster rules can sometimes force teams to do things they don't really want to do. In some cases even do things that you might call cheating, like stashing a player who isn't really hurt on the DL.

 

It's almost like income tax rules.

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s a negotiated portion of the CBA and if the player doesn’t like it, he has no legal leverage. Coming out of spring, you want to keep all your options open, hence a player who may have a future with your team who is out of options will stick while a better player with options will go. That might happen with Swihart, although I’d be very surprised if he supplants the better player. Swihart’s value is tied to his position. If he’s a catcher and he can hit a bit, then he’s got significant value. This is where Ben et al screwed the pooch. Swihart never should have been in the OF. His offensive ceiling was that of a replacement level LFer, it was fitting a square peg in a round hole. Now that most organizations maximize a player’s value, I anticipate that won’t happen again. Swihart should have been in AAA as a C and not in LF hurting an ankle. Now he’s out of options, lost development time and is still far from being passable as a big league catcher. I think he gets DFA’d and someone takes a chance On him only to DFA him again in the hopes of sneaking him into a AAA roster. His only hope of being a productive big leaguer is spending a healthy 2018 in AAA catching full time

[Hitch]

Swihart is not getting DFA'd.

[Natick to NC]

Swihart is not getting DFA'd.

 

Yeah this^ Swi will be here atleast until trade deadline ....unless there's a deal to be had with a certain Miami catcher named JT.....hell we have JD and JBJ why not A JT ? I wonder if Jeter would take a Swihart and young pitcher for JT ....perfect swing for Fenway .They want to tank anyway .

Edited March 15, 2018 by Natick to NC

[jacksonianmarch]

Carrying a third catcher who has no other utility is stupid. He’s a minus OFer and with your DH also being an OFer, that’s redundant. You’ve got Hanley and Moreland for 1b.

 

If you carry 12 pitchers and Pedey starts the year on the DL, you’re 13 offensive guys are

 

Vasquez

Leon

Hanley

Moreland

Nunez

Bogaerts

Devers

Martinez

Bradley

Betts

Holt

SS capable UTIL (Marrero?)

Backup OF

 

Maybe Swihart wins that last spot and is a DFA candidate when Pedey comes back. Either way, it’s redundant and not a path to playing time

[mvp 78]

Carrying a third catcher who has no other utility is stupid.

 

The want him to play corner IF and corner OF too. I think that counts as "other utility."

[Bellhorn04]

As I said in the other thread, Swihart had a UZR/150 of +8.0 in LF.

[moonslav59]

Okay so you believe that Vazquez can still make it to elite level. Maybe so.

 

However, what is to prevent Swihart from achieving a similar goal? That fact that he is further away from being elite does not preclude his ability to improve significantly.

 

Unless he has some drastic deformity or incurable flaw in his mechanics I see no reason that Swihart could not become a very good catcher on both sides of the ball. Given the chance, that is.

 

He is already a superior athlete and most likely will continue to be so.

 

I guess nothing is impossible, but when you watch a player's growth curve, you can pretty much project where the best he can be might occur. Sure, it's not an exact science, and writing Swihart off as possibly becoming a decent defender at the catching position is probably premature, but he's currently way behind Vaz and Leon right now, IMO. By playing him in LF, 1B and next 3B, it's not going to be easy for him to excel or grow quickly at catching.

 

It's just not how it works.

 

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

Eduardo Rodriguez just wrapped up his three simulated innings. I believe he had 48 pitches, working out of both stretch and wind while incorporating fastballs, sliders, changeups.

[a700hitter]

@alexspeier

 

Eduardo Rodriguez just wrapped up his three simulated innings. I believe he had 48 pitches, working out of both stretch and wind while incorporating fastballs, sliders, changeups.

And he didn't collapse.

[moonslav59]

As I said in the other thread, Swihart had a UZR/150 of +8.0 in LF.

 

Certainly, he was off to a good start, but he only played 114 innings in LF, and I believe the UZR/150 guys claim 2-3 year sample sizes are best for truly judging a player's defensive value.

 

Never the less, Swihart is not going to be DFA'd.

 

4th OF: We want to avoid using JD in the OF, except in NL parks. Nunez is the true 4th OF'er on the team (his best position defensively), but he's needed at 2B for quite a while. Even when Pedey returns, Nunez may play 2B 1-2 times a week.

 

1B: Clearly, HRam and Moreland have this position locked up, but if one gets hurt or struggles, there will be room for Swhiart tosqueeze in sometime here.

 

3B: I'm skeptical about Swihart's ability to play 3B at a decent level, but with Nunez tied up at 2B for a while, Swhihat could get some time here.

 

With all three of these slots (actually 5, if you count CF and RF in the mix, since we can shift guys around) available for Swihart to squeeze out a few PAs, his value becomes much more than just as a 3rd catcher.

 

This is how I see our bench need shaping up (not listed in order of importance):

 

1) We need depth at catcher, since we may want to PH for them. Having a 3rd catcher allows PH'ing for a catcher 1-2 times a game. That's a big plus.

 

2) IF defense. our defense at 3B, 2B and even SS is lacking (1B, too with HRam). Marrero or Lincan cover this, but having Swihart on thebench offers further depth as a jack-of-all-trades type that Cora seems to love.

 

3) Flexibility. This area is not so much of a great need as it was with the DH only Papi years. If Holt starts in AAA, as he should with his remaining option, keeping Swihart makes sense.

 

Jack is right about a decision needing to be made once Pedey returns, but by then, we should know more about Swihart, Holt, Marrero, Leon and Vaz's ability to catch 4 out of 5 games. I don't project Swihart being the casualty when Pedey returns, but he might be traded at that time, depending on how our need areas are shaping up. If Devers is a butcher at 3B, and Swihart shows he's not a decent fielder there, maybe Swhihart's need is lessened. If Vaz catches 4 of 5 games and Leon remains Sale's caddie, then maybe finding time fr Swihart at catcher, other than as a late inning PH/replacement player, then his value may lessen.

 

Right now, Swihart clearly has the value to stay on the 25 man roster. The only way he does not make the 25 is b y injury or trade.

 

 

[mvp 78]

Just DFA Sandy and be done with it. Have Vaz catch 120 games, Swihart can catch 42.

[moonslav59]

Just DFA Sandy and be done with it. Have Vaz catch 120 games, Swihart can catch 42.

 

...and watch our staff ERA increase by 0.25 or more and be done with any hopes of a 3rd straight division title.

 

Why DFA Leon just to keep Holt & Marrero on the 25?

[harmony]

Yeah this^ Swi will be here atleast until trade deadline ....unless there's a deal to be had with a certain Miami catcher named JT.....hell we have JD and JBJ why not A JT ? I wonder if Jeter would take a Swihart and young pitcher for JT ....perfect swing for Fenway .They want to tank anyway .

The tanking Miami Marlins are 11-6 in Grapefruit League play (a game and a half up on the Red Sox).

 

A Spring Training record is not indicative of a team's quality but I suspect the Marlins are not nearly as bad as many fans think.

 

Fans tend to exaggerate prognoses: the strengths of the Yankees are exaggerated just as the weaknesses of the Marlins are exaggerated.

[moonslav59]

The tanking Miami Marlins are 11-6 in Grapefruit League play (a game and a half up on the Red Sox).

 

A Spring Training record is not indicative of a team's quality but I suspect the Marlins are not nearly as bad as many fans think.

 

Fans tend to exaggerate prognoses: the strengths of the Yankees are exaggerated just as the weaknesses of the Marlins are exaggerated.

 

The marlins might be playing their actual 25 man roster players more than other teams.

 

Our top AB players are....

 

42 Travis (to AAA)

36 Swihart (to bench)

35 Castillo (AAA)

34 De Jesus (AAA)

32 Devers

31 Tavarez (AAA)

29 HRam

27 Lin (AAA)

 

Miami

36 S Castro

34 L Brinson

32 G Cooper

31M Rojas

30 D Dietrich

29 Van Slyke

 

I'm no expert on Miami's roster, but maybe this is why.

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by moonslav59

[jacksonianmarch]

Spring Training for Miami will continue through September. They're in the process of gaining experience for their players. They don't give a crap about rotating and finalizing, they know their team will suck. The Yanks are trying to fill out a roster, hence they need to give guys their looks while also ensuring their starters see enough time. This is much harder

[Bellhorn04]

Just DFA Sandy and be done with it. Have Vaz catch 120 games, Swihart can catch 42.

 

DFA both Sandy and Hanley, huh? Chill, man.

[a700hitter]

DFA both Sandy and Hanley, huh? Chill, man.

And kick Pedroia to the curb too.