Martinez vs Hosmer vs Santana

[cp176]

I'm all for signing Nunez as well, but I believe that if he is signed it won't be as some super sub. He will be signed to play second base for a while and perhaps longer. We are not talking Brock Holt here. The fact that Holt has been (was) able to jump out there and give us innings at a number of different positions as in almost all of them was nice (a little sarcasm there) but shouldn't be necessary. He has helped us for sure and has been a good conversation piece but I think that having one person being able to perform at an average ability level all over the diamond might just not be all that important.

[Hitch]

Holt traded, Nunez signed as second base for the foreseeable and Hernandez as the multi tool spanner for now. We can but dream...

[cp176]

Holt traded, Nunez signed as second base for the foreseeable and Hernandez as the multi tool spanner for now. We can but dream...

 

yup

[sk7326]

I'm all for signing Nunez as well, but I believe that if he is signed it won't be as some super sub. He will be signed to play second base for a while and perhaps longer. We are not talking Brock Holt here. The fact that Holt has been (was) able to jump out there and give us innings at a number of different positions as in almost all of them was nice (a little sarcasm there) but shouldn't be necessary. He has helped us for sure and has been a good conversation piece but I think that having one person being able to perform at an average ability level all over the diamond might just not be all that important.

 

He is a very very poor fielder - and since he doesn't walk or hit homeruns, his value lies in making hard contact. When he has a good streak, it's fun.

[fxkatt]

I think Nunez would vastly prefer or insist on a starting role which kind of puts us out of his picture.

 

And I don't think he should be a backup either, any more than I think Pedroia should be or is willing to be.

[cp176]

He is a very very poor fielder - and since he doesn't walk or hit homeruns, his value lies in making hard contact. When he has a good streak, it's fun.

 

Nunez you mean right? He for sure didn't look like Chuck Schilling out there. (research needed or not) He actually looked as though his fielding ability was more on the Felix Mantilla plane. Mantilla could really hit though.

 

How about Martinez's fielding ability? I think that you probably know that I do not put all of my faith into what the metrics say. I have been told that he is a terrible outfielder but just recently I read an article that led me to believe that he really wasn't that bad at all. As in average. What do you have to say?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

So the Red Sox are only be on the hook for $20 million in 2018. If they sign JD and cut Hanley, that would be great imo. DD has had to eat an awful lot of bad contracts that he inherited— Pablo ($54 million), Hanley ($23 million) and Craig ($12 million)—that’s almost $90 million in parting gifts. That is ridiculous. And we still have Rusney Castillo rotting away in the minors for another 3 years.

 

This why B.Cherrington will likely never get another chance to be a GM. No owner in his right mind is ever going to give Cherrington control of baseball operations again.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Dombrowski is playing it right Martinez, none of the big market teams are after him. They all want to stay under the Luxury Tax for next years, bonanza of Free Agents. Yanks, Dodgers, Cubs, and Giants, don't look in a hurry for him. That only leaves the Sox.

 

I agree. I thought the Giants were interested but they acquired Longoria and are now likely targeting a more modest corner outfielder, maybe a LHB too. The Angels signed J.Upton for around 100 million, that is a really good comp for Martinez. I'm hoping the Red Sox get him for around that amount.

[cp176]

Just heard an interview with Tim Britton and it just seems once again that common sense is coming in to play. I am a DD fan - I get that - but the biggest reason is that I believe that his primary moves just make sense to me. KISS - it still works. Britton says that Martinez to Boston makes sense for both sides and that we just are in the middle of the waiting game to really see who else might be interested. 5 years seems to be the thinking right now. As for the Moerland signing, he provides a great backup plan if Ramirez cannot get it done for us early in the season. He does not see a signing of Martinez, and Moreland, really being much of an issue with respect to playing time. If Bradley winds up being dealt, I've got to think that it will be for pitching. Signing Martinez does not mean by any means that JBJ gets moved. He also noted that with Santana being signed, they really did not want to lose out on signing Moreland. First base defense still counts. I kind of think that Sam Travis or anybody else who people might have thought might be playing some first for us next year, all will have to prove what they might be able to do before they get the chance.

[moonslav59]

He needs to be kept on a very tight leash, however.

 

No doubt. I'd have no issue canning his ass, if he struggles or gets hurt again, but there is still potential there--much more than with Pablito.

 

Let it play out. The easiest positions to fill mid season are 1B and DH.

[moonslav59]

Just heard an interview with Tim Britton and it just seems once again that common sense is coming in to play. I am a DD fan - I get that - but the biggest reason is that I believe that his primary moves just make sense to me. KISS - it still works. Britton says that Martinez to Boston makes sense for both sides and that we just are in the middle of the waiting game to really see who else might be interested. 5 years seems to be the thinking right now. As for the Moerland signing, he provides a great backup plan if Ramirez cannot get it done for us early in the season. He does not see a signing of Martinez, and Moreland, really being much of an issue with respect to playing time. If Bradley winds up being dealt, I've got to think that it will be for pitching. Signing Martinez does not mean by any means that JBJ gets moved. He also noted that with Santana being signed, they really did not want to lose out on signing Moreland. First base defense still counts. I kind of think that Sam Travis or anybody else who people might have thought might be playing some first for us next year, all will have to prove what they might be able to do before they get the chance.

 

I'd hate to trade JBJ, but if we do (after signing JD) trade him for pitching, I'd at least understand the reasoning. Trading JBJ for prospects to flip for Abreu made no sense to me, so at least the Moreland signing took us out of the Hosmer & Abreu sweepstakes.

 

Who know, maybe we get lucky and get JD for $110M/4. If nobody else is in the bidding, is there a chance we could get him for even less?

[sk7326]

Nunez you mean right? He for sure didn't look like Chuck Schilling out there. (research needed or not) He actually looked as though his fielding ability was more on the Felix Mantilla plane. Mantilla could really hit though.

 

How about Martinez's fielding ability? I think that you probably know that I do not put all of my faith into what the metrics say. I have been told that he is a terrible outfielder but just recently I read an article that led me to believe that he really wasn't that bad at all. As in average. What do you have to say?

 

Martinez really should be a 1B/DH. If you are putting him in the field, it is to please him. The Red Sox incumbents are all better with the glove.

 

I think right now this is just a staring contest - the Red Sox have the need and the money and nobody else has both.

[moonslav59]

Martinez really should be a 1B/DH. If you are putting him in the field, it is to please him. The Red Sox incumbents are all better with the glove.

 

I think right now this is just a staring contest - the Red Sox have the need and the money and nobody else has both.

 

I'm not sure I'd try Martinez at 1B. He should DH, so he can get 700 PAs.

 

Keep the OF intact.

 

I guess we end up with a $28M Moreland-HRam platoon at 1B, with HRam DH'ing when an OF'er needs a rest.

 

That doesn't leave much money for a 5th starter.

 

[a700hitter]

There's no log jam even if Hanley is not waived.

If DD signs J.D. there is no logjam?

[a700hitter]

I didn't like the move, but I understood the rationale behind it.

I am yet to see a move by GM where the GM did not have a rationale for the move, even the worst of moves. Having a rationale for the move doesn't make it less bad. Pablo was a horrible move.

[mvp 78]

Martinez really should be a 1B/DH. If you are putting him in the field, it is to please him. The Red Sox incumbents are all better with the glove.

 

I think right now this is just a staring contest - the Red Sox have the need and the money and nobody else has both.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[moonslav59]

I am yet to see a move by GM where the GM did not have a rationale for the move, even the worst of moves. Having a rationale for the move doesn't make it less bad. Pablo was a horrible move.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Just because we needed a 3Bman, did not mean we had to go out and get arguably the best available 3Bman that winter. It's a crappy way to make a decision.

 

Instead of signing HRam, Pablo and Masterson, he should have signed Scherzer. I could have understood signing HRam to play 3B and Scherzer, if they could have afforded both.

 

Pablo was a horrible signing, and just about everyone knew it.

[notin]

I am yet to see a move by GM where the GM did not have a rationale for the move, even the worst of moves. Having a rationale for the move doesn't make it less bad. Pablo was a horrible move.

 

Absolutely true,

 

The rationale isn't always good, but it is always there.

 

Sometimes it is obvious, but sometimes it is a lot less clear to us as fans, despite what we think we know.

[Bellhorn04]

Pablo was a horrible move, although none of us in our wildest nightmares imagined exactly how horrible it would be.

 

If we had just signed Pablo or Hanley, I think it would fall under the forgivable category. But signing them both, at a combined AAV of 41 million, was unforgivable.

[Spudboy]

Pablo was a horrible move, although none of us in our wildest nightmares imagined exactly how horrible it would be.

 

If we had just signed Pablo or Hanley, I think it would fall under the forgivable category. But signing them both, at a combined AAV of 41 million, was unforgivable.

 

And it makes no difference who made these decisions.

 

It was bad business from the start and the Sox are "paying" for their mistake.

[moonslav59]

And it makes no difference who made these decisions.

 

It was bad business from the start and the Sox are "paying" for their mistake.

 

Yes, but what is interesting is the cry from us fans to "fix the problem".

 

How?

 

By signing another FA, this time to a 5+ year deal.

[cp176]

And it makes no difference who made these decisions.

 

It was bad business from the start and the Sox are "paying" for their mistake.

 

This I agree with very much. Has been a mind boggler for me how much attention has been paid to the GMs that have worked for the Sox and the constant scrutinizing of every move each of them has made. It is the actual decisions themselves that seem significant to me as opposed to who has been responsible for this and that. The Red Sox are and having been paying for some time now for lousy baseball decisions from a $ perspective. It is a damn good thing that our primary owner is a multi billionaire!

[cp176]

Yes, but what is interesting is the cry from us fans to "fix the problem".

 

How?

 

By signing another FA, this time to a 5+ year deal.

 

 

I'm not sure that there is any real fix to the "problems" bad contracts create. I'm very sure that if a poll was taken as to how we fans might solve the problems that have been created, there would be so many different suggestions that it would be joke like. Signing JD Martinez to a 5 year deal might be a great deal for us and it might not.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure that there is any real fix to the "problems" bad contracts create. I'm very sure that if a poll was taken as to how we fans might solve the problems that have been created, there would be so many different suggestions that it would be joke like. Signing JD Martinez to a 5 year deal might be a great deal for us and it might not.

 

I'm hoping we do sign JD, as long as it is not a massive overpay for 6 years, however, I realize we are sticking our neck out. I don't view JD in the same light as HRam and Pablo, but he'll cost more money and more years, and if he fails, we'll be hearing the same thing we are now about Ben and his big mistakes. If JD fails and Price's elbow "pops", one could argue DD made bigger mistakes than Ben and Theo.

[cp176]

I'm hoping we do sign JD, as long as it is not a massive overpay for 6 years, however, I realize we are sticking our neck out. I don't view JD in the same light as HRam and Pablo, but he'll cost more money and more years, and if he fails, we'll be hearing the same thing we are now about Ben and his big mistakes. If JD fails and Price's elbow "pops", one could argue DD made bigger mistakes than Ben and Theo.

 

Your approach seems a little too negative for me. For the record, although i do like how DD goes about his business - he treats it like his not ours - I could care less who the GM is. I'm going to look forward to the spring and sitting tight and thinking that our offensive woes are going to magically heal themselves, won't make it for me.

[moonslav59]

Your approach seems a little too negative for me. For the record, although i do like how DD goes about his business - he treats it like his not ours - I could care less who the GM is. I'm going to look forward to the spring and sitting tight and thinking that our offensive woes are going to magically heal themselves, won't make it for me.

 

I don't either. I'm for signing JD. I was for signing Scherzer instead of Pablo & Masterson. I was for doing something big when we signed Price.

 

I'm just saying that there is some hypocrisy in our own desires. We want our GMs to spend, spend, spend. The history of all big signings by all MLB teams is not good. When our big signings fail, we blame the GM, as if we were against signing anybody.

 

Yes, I get that the vast majority of us were against the Pablo signing. We all want our GM to sign only big FAs that will not fail, when, in fact the vast majority do fail- many right out of the gait.

 

I'm not expecting JD to fail. I did not expect Price to fail. I did not think HRam would fail, although I thought moving him to LF was a mistake. While I despised the Pablo & Crawford signings, I never expected such a massive failure. The fact is, our last 4 biggest signings have ranged from failing miserable (CC & Pablo) to failing badly (HRam) to looking pretty darn scary (Price). We realize the failure we made and look to solve those failures by doing what?

 

Signing the next big promising FA in JD Martinez.

 

Like I said, I'm all for signing him, but I have to think we may be just repeating the same mistakes again and again. I hope to hell we finally get one right. Not all big signings do badly. We're due for a good one.

[notin]

Your approach seems a little too negative for me. For the record, although i do like how DD goes about his business - he treats it like his not ours - I could care less who the GM is. I'm going to look forward to the spring and sitting tight and thinking that our offensive woes are going to magically heal themselves, won't make it for me.

 

Good thing you don't care who the GM, considering the team doesn't have one..

[cp176]

Good thing you don't care who the GM, considering the team doesn't have one..

 

That is what I'm talking about Notin. You see you do get it. We have a GM who doesn't feel obligated to let his fan base in on every little injury, prospective signing, or other types of day to day stuff thus we must not have a GM. What forever shall we do?

[notin]

That is what I'm talking about Notin. You see you do get it. We have a GM who doesn't feel obligated to let his fan base in on every little injury, prospective signing, or other types of day to day stuff thus we must not have a GM. What forever shall we do?

 

Not what I meant.

 

The Red Sox do not have a GM and haven't since Mike Hazen left. We have a President of Baseball Ops who handles everything himself. Although this off-season he hasn't done all that much...

[Bellhorn04]

Not what I meant.

 

The Red Sox do not have a GM and haven't since Mike Hazen left. We have a President of Baseball Ops who handles everything himself. Although this off-season he hasn't done all that much...

 

Official title doesn't matter, of course. All that matters is who is the de facto decision-maker.