Stanton or Votto

[Carpin]

[/b]I didn't say that I gave him a pass. I said "if we can give him a pass". I don't give any GM a pass on any deal he signs off on. Only one GM that I know had the stones to say that he opposed a deal. Brian Cashman publicly opposed a signing -- for Chapman I think.

 

He opposed to the Arod extension after the opt out, that fiasco was all in Hank S. after that move he was removed from any significant role in the Yankees FO

[Bellhorn04]

[/b]I didn't say that I gave him a pass. I said "if we can give him a pass". I don't give any GM a pass on any deal he signs off on. Only one GM that I know had the stones to say that he opposed a deal. Brian Cashman publicly opposed a signing -- for Chapman I think.

 

It was Rafael Soriano's signing that Cashman publicly opposed.

[notin]

He opposed to the Arod extension after the opt out, that fiasco was all in Hank S. after that move he was removed from any significant role in the Yankees FO

 

And was announced right before the Red Sox were about to win the World Series in a transparent attempt to steal thr headlines...

[a700hitter]

It was Rafael Soriano's signing that Cashman publicly opposed.

Right. I knew it was a reliever.

[Kimmi]

Boston Red Sox:

Ben = 1 parade

DD = 0 parade

 

!!!

[cp176]

!!!

 

wow

[Kimmi]

I don't know how this turned into the umpteenth rehashing of Cherington, Dombrowski, and their various deals and decisions...but anyways...

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/10/marlins-hope-to-trade-stanton-gordon-prado.html

 

The most interesting nugget here, I thought, is the speculation that "the team’s reported intentions perhaps hint that the focus could be on moving all of Stanton’s salary rather than maximizing the prospect return." Daunting though Stanton's contract may appear, I'd take it on in a moment if we didn't have to empty what's left of the farm and/or pillage key pieces from the major league roster to get him. The cost in talent will make all the difference...we'll see...

 

I felt like that might be the case when the Marlins put Stanton on waivers and not a single team put in a claim. I get the sense that the Marlins are more concerned with dumping his salary than anything else.

[moonslav59]

I felt like that might be the case when the Marlins put Stanton on waivers and not a single team put in a claim. I get the sense that the Marlins are more concerned with dumping his salary than anything else.

 

They'll still take the best offer, and that depends on how much one GM will give up. I don't think of him as a classic "salary dump", since Miami will get something nice.

 

I've been saying all along, I do not think the return will be super great for Stanton, but it will be substantial.

 

However, all it takes is two GMs who really want him to drive the price up to beyond "substantial".

[harmony]

However, all it takes is two GMs who really want him to drive the price up to beyond "substantial".

Bingo.

[Carpin]

And was announced right before the Red Sox were about to win the World Series in a transparent attempt to steal thr headlines...

 

That was on Borass, the timing was awful

[moonslav59]

I felt like that might be the case when the Marlins put Stanton on waivers and not a single team put in a claim. I get the sense that the Marlins are more concerned with dumping his salary than anything else.

 

I think they were gauging interest, perhaps for a winter deal. The salary issues with the Sox trying to reset their luxury tax kept them from making an offer this summer. I think other teams did not claim him, because they did not want the distraction or didn't want to put together a deal at that time.

 

I find it hard to believe no team claimed him, because they were afraid Miami might just hand him over for nothing in return.

 

[Larry Cook]

The angels would make a great destination for Stanton. Pujolds, trout, Stanton and Calhoun, what a brutal lineup.

[a700hitter]

The angels would make a great destination for Stanton. Pujolds, trout, Stanton and Calhoun, what a brutal lineup.

and not a single pitcher

[Jack Flap]

I felt like that might be the case when the Marlins put Stanton on waivers and not a single team put in a claim. I get the sense that the Marlins are more concerned with dumping his salary than anything else.

 

Yeah, I've been saying all along that I don't think the Marlins will be able to get the sort of spectacular package many seem to be assuming they will. Of course it's not a "salary dump" per se, but it seems like getting rid of the salary will be the primary objective, and I'm skeptical that any team will take on all of the money and surrender elite prospects and/or young MLB players. But time will tell, of course.

[notin]

and not a single pitcher

 

At least not one who can stay healthy. ..

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, I've been saying all along that I don't think the Marlins will be able to get the sort of spectacular package many seem to be assuming they will. Of course it's not a "salary dump" per se, but it seems like getting rid of the salary will be the primary objective, and I'm skeptical that any team will take on all of the money and surrender elite prospects and/or young MLB players. But time will tell, of course.

 

This is a perplexing one. Stanton is one of the premier offensive players in the game and not even in prime years yet.

 

You'd think you'd have to give up something of value.

[Nick]

This is a perplexing one. Stanton is one of the premier offensive players in the game and not even in prime years yet.

 

You'd think you'd have to give up something of value.

 

Obviously Marlins are going to want as much as they can get. It will be up to the Sox and other suitors how much they want to drive up the bid.

 

Marlins won't be interested in anyone in arbitration phase. Whats the point of getting Betts? He'll be expensive and that defeats the purpose of shedding payroll.

 

Devers for me is a deal breaker. He's under team control for 6 years. I'd entertain Beni simply because Stanton is an outfielder. Beni and couple of long ways off minor leaguers would make sense for Sox. That includes Groome.

 

Sign Martinez and trade for Stanton and call it a day.

[moonslav59]

Obviously Marlins are going to want as much as they can get. It will be up to the Sox and other suitors how much they want to drive up the bid.

 

Marlins won't be interested in anyone in arbitration phase. Whats the point of getting Betts? He'll be expensive and that defeats the purpose of shedding payroll.

 

Devers for me is a deal breaker. He's under team control for 6 years. I'd entertain Beni simply because Stanton is an outfielder. Beni and couple of long ways off minor leaguers would make sense for Sox. That includes Groome.

 

Sign Martinez and trade for Stanton and call it a day.

 

They could trade for an arb player and flip them immediately or after 1-2 years, depending on how much they want to compete now.

 

A three team trade could also work.

[moonslav59]

This is a perplexing one. Stanton is one of the premier offensive players in the game and not even in prime years yet.

 

You'd think you'd have to give up something of value.

 

There's probably 20+ teams that just flat out would not pay anyone that salary.

 

His luxury number of $25M is less than the actual, so that adds value to the top spending teams straddling the limit year after year.

 

I'd say maybe 4-6 teams might get serious.

[cp176]

If the Marlins decide to try to move Stanton in an effort to shed payroll, they are going to want a great return. If the Marlins decide to keep Stanton and not to shed payroll, good for them, they are screwed for a while. It would be nice to have a player like Stanton but only a handful of teams are going to be in the running to acquire a player as costly as he may be. if the Marlins decide that financially it is worth it to them to shed that contract, they really might just have to be satisfied with less in return than they would like to have. Regardless of what some here think our beloved Red Sox are one of the teams that can afford to go out and get Stanton. Luxury taxes, cliff existence be damned. I don't think that the Marlins are going to get the haul in players that they might like. I still don't see him coming our way although I like most would like to see it happen.

[notin]

When it comes to Stanton, it really also comes down to how much other willing snd interested teams are prepared to give up.

 

The Marlins want to divest themselves of that commitment, likely because their chances of success during that deal took a hit after the Jose Fernandez tragedy.

 

If it comes down to a bidding war with the Yankees or Dodgers, our chances are slim. A bidding war with the Cubs, Angels, Nationals or Giants? The Sox have a much better chance...

[Larry Cook]

Did not Stanton say he wanted to play on his the west coast and would wave his no trade clause to play there?

[notin]

Did not Stanton say he wanted to play on his the west coast and would wave his no trade clause to play there?

 

Have not heard that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

I have speculated on this board that the southern California native might prefer his hometown Dodgers or Angels...

[Bellhorn04]

Did not Stanton say he wanted to play on his the west coast and would wave his no trade clause to play there?

 

Are there any actual quotes to this effect?

[notin]

Are there any actual quotes to this effect?

 

I said it once. Does that count?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Perhaps there is a compromise--the Marlins aren't expecting multiple elite prospects for Stanton but might expect ONE elite prospect for Stanton. It is worth noting that the Red Sox don't even have one elite prospect to offer the Marlins unless they are willing to move Devers.

 

I wonder if the Dodgers would be interested in Stanton? Sure, they have Puig in RF, but they don't have a big time starting LF. I could see the Dodgers wanting to do something pretty big in the off-season after losing the World Series.

 

If the Dodgers want him, they could get him. They have the prospects, they have the money, and I believe Stanton grew up in California. If the Dodgers want him, I don't see how the Red Sox could even compete with a Dodgers offer.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Kimmi]

I said it once. Does that count?

 

If Notin says it, it counts!

[Kimmi]

Perhaps there is a compromise--the Marlins aren't expecting multiple elite prospects for Stanton but might expect ONE elite prospect for Stanton. It is worth noting that the Red Sox don't even have one elite prospect to offer the Marlins unless they are willing to move Devers.

 

I wonder if the Dodgers would be interested in Stanton? Sure, they have Puig in RF, but they don't have a big time starting LF. I could see the Dodgers wanting to do something pretty big in the off-season after losing the World Series.

 

If the Dodgers want him, they could get him. They have the prospects, they have the money, and I believe Stanton grew up in California. If the Dodgers want him, I don't see how the Red Sox could even compete with a Dodgers offer.

 

I hope some team not named the Red Sox trades for him very quickly so we can stop all of this nonsensical talk.

[notin]

Perhaps there is a compromise--the Marlins aren't expecting multiple elite prospects for Stanton but might expect ONE elite prospect for Stanton. It is worth noting that the Red Sox don't even have one elite prospect to offer the Marlins unless they are willing to move Devers.

 

I wonder if the Dodgers would be interested in Stanton? Sure, they have Puig in RF, but they don't have a big time starting LF. I could see the Dodgers wanting to do something pretty big in the off-season after losing the World Series.

 

If the Dodgers want him, they could get him. They have the prospects, they have the money, and I believe Stanton grew up in California. If the Dodgers want him, I don't see how the Red Sox could even compete with a Dodgers offer.

 

 

They could send clubhouse problem child Puig for him, which represents a massive savings for the Marlins and gives the Marlins a new Cuban star to ignite the fanbase. Rusney Castillo will not likely have the same effect...

[Dojji]

They could trade for an arb player and flip them immediately or after 1-2 years, depending on how much they want to compete now.

 

A three team trade could also work.

 

Too many moving pieces. Anything we do is going to be an elaborate process involving either so many moving parts the points of failure approach infinity, or Flora taking a risk of winding up with diddly out of the trade of the best player that has graced their roster since Miggy.

 

Florida doesn't want low-floor high ceiling prospects and a guy whose clock has started. There are plenty of teams that can deal from a position of strength and give up the kind of prospects the Marlins will want without deviating from their strategy that much. We simply are not one of those teams. Stanton isn't coming here, Votto surely isn't coming here. We'll all enjoy the happy fantasy and then eventually people come back to earth and hopefully DD will have snagged an actual 1B by Opening Day while the fans whiled away the hot stove season chasing fairytale trade proposals like usual.

 

I'd hate to have to rest the franchise on Sam Travis's back during a year when we're supposed to be contenders just because someone in power got infested with toxic brain fluff and couldn't let go of the Don Quixote fantasy of landing a guy like Stanton in this offseason. Not like it's gonna happen, we'll probably just sign Hosmer as long as DD is prepared to make a competitive offer. The fact that Sam Travis is the alternative should encourage him to be appropriately generous, anyhow.