JF Fired, New Thread, Please see new link

[bosoxmal]

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/258211184/red-sox-dismiss-john-farrell/?topicId=27118122

[S5Dewey]

Holy s***. I didn't expect this.

[bosoxmal]

Holy s***. I didn't expect this.

The noise was too lous, I expected it, but not this quick. I wonder if David would take the job? I doubt it, he seems content where he is. But what a manager that guy would make! No fancy oratory, just "how to;s)

[a700hitter]

The noise was too lous, I expected it, but not this quick. I wonder if David would take the job? I doubt it, he seems content where he is. But what a manager that guy would make! No fancy oratory, just "how to;s)

I am really warming to your idea of Ortiz being the new manager, but but I don't see it happening. This group of players is highly paid with a sense of entitlement, and with sour puss Price as the prominent voice almost any new manager will have no chance of getting control of the place. Ortiz would command the clubhouse. Players would respect him, and if he loses his temper, they would sit up and pay attention. Having no managerial experience, he would need the support of a very experienced coaching staff.

[BstHcpr]

DD always wanted his own guy. Hopefully, it's not a Ausmus redux.

[a700hitter]

Announcement to Season Ticketholders

 

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Dear Season Ticket Holders,Today we announced that John Farrell will not return as Red Sox manager in 2018. Sometimes organizations need change to improve and now is that time.　This morning, we met with John to express our deep appreciation for all he has contributed to the Boston Red Sox including 2 World Series Championships and 4 Division titles in his 9 years as pitching coach and manager. John has become a friend to many of us and he will be missed. 　There is a sign in our clubhouse that reads, "We play for championships." While this season we fell short of our ultimate goal, there is a lot to be excited about as we look ahead. The work towards that goal in 2018 is already underway.　Thank you again for being an integral part of the Red Sox family. We are grateful to each of you for your ongoing belief, commitment, and support.　Sincerely,Sam Kennedy

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[Spudboy]

Re: Keep sending us your money.

[oldtimer]

DD always wanted his own guy. Hopefully, it's not a Ausmus redux.

 

I mentioned in another string that Gardenhire is the guy who is favored as a replacement. Whoever it is, the sooner the better. They will have to do due diligence and interview a diverse group to satisfy current policy sensitivities, so that will take a month.

[S5Dewey]

Re: Keep sending us your money.

I wasn't amazed that it happened. Like most here I was ambivalent about it.

What surprised me was the timing. I'd always heard that there was an ongoing request from MLB that teams didn't make personnel changes until the WS is over as those changes divert the interest from the games.

 

It'll be interesting now to see if the Sox have the courage to raise ticket prices again.

[a700hitter]

Re: Keep sending us your money.

LOL!! That's right. They have lots of different raffles for season ticket holders. If they really wanted to treat us right, they should have had a raffle to let a season ticket holder fire the manager.

[Dojji]

Holy s***. I didn't expect this.

 

I did. Farrell is what he is. An average manager. While there were other holes to plug and a sense that the team was playing over his head there was no need to make this move, but the team underperformed this year including another one-and-done in the division round. He got is this far but other than adding maybe one power bat, it's going to take

a more consistent effort from the players to take us any further. That's a good time to go looking for a new manager.

 

An average manager can absolutely win the World Series if he manages at a great level for a year. Farrell did it in 13, Ned Yost did it in 15, both are very average. But counting on it is inadvisable.

 

Personally I want to see them interview DeMarlo Hale. He's a coach from the winning era, served under Tito, knows his system, and he knows many of the veterans on the team, he's one of the most experienced non-managers in the league right now. Get him in here and see what he can give us.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Dojji

[oldtimer]

I wasn't amazed that it happened. Like most here I was ambivalent about it.

What surprised me was the timing. I'd always heard that there was an ongoing request from MLB that teams didn't make personnel changes until the WS is over as those changes divert the interest from the games.

 

It'll be interesting now to see if the Sox have the courage to raise ticket prices again.

 

Like you I was ambivalent. I look at it as not really a firing, but instead and unwillingness to renew a manager with his strengths and faults. This move should allow the new manager to come in and select some new coaches, which I think is needed. In addition, he may make a difference with the attitude of some of our players. Perhaps a more positive outlook. On the other hand things could get worse. Whats done is done and now I hope they carry it off as quicklly as possible.

[Spudboy]

Like you I was ambivalent. I look at it as not really a firing, but instead and unwillingness to renew a manager with his strengths and faults. This move should allow the new manager to come in and select some new coaches, which I think is needed. In addition, he may make a difference with the attitude of some of our players. Perhaps a more positive outlook. On the other hand things could get worse. Whats done is done and now I hope they carry it off as quicklly as possible.

 

Nobody is thinking like that around here.

 

To me, that is good enough reason not to make a non-essential move like this.

 

I suspect the inmates are calling the shots and that is not a healthy situation.

[Northern Star]

Holy s***. I didn't expect this.

 

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!"

[Kimmi]

DD always wanted his own guy. Hopefully, it's not a Ausmus redux.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

 

Plus, this FO has been known to make rash decisions.

[Kimmi]

The move doesn't surprise me one bit. Not that I in any way feel that Farrell should have been fired.

[jacksonianmarch]

John Farrell deserved to be fired. You can debate the performance all you want. I think the performance was good enough to hang on, but the clubhouse was a disaster. Your coach has to have accountability. How are you accountable when you leave your wife and are banging a NESN reporter? How is that accountable? You stay silent while Pedey effectively alienates his team in the Machado fiasco. You stay silent when David Price rips into a HOF broadcaster because he cannot take some criticism. This team had no leader and in those cases, you need your manager to lead, and Farrell isn't a leader. There were rifts all over the place. Farrell was being classified as a terrible communicator by an unnamed player in the locker room. Once a manager loses the locker room, he is useless and had to go.

[a700hitter]

DD fired JF quickly. He was not taking any chance of a cancer recurrence.

[oldtimer]

So who are on the list of replacements for Farrell?

 

Ron Gardenhire a very experienced and successful 60 year old.

 

DiMarlo Hale from the jays. A 56 year old who knows the players but doesn't soound like a mover or a shaker.

 

Alomar jr. an inexperienced candidate but that doesn't mean bad

 

Brad Asmus good baseball man with the Padres now but results were no so great. He is around 45

 

Jason Varitek would be inexperienced and on the younger side

 

Doug Martinez of the Cubs.

 

Alex Cora out of the Houston organization. Inexperienced but exposed to a forward thinking organization might bring some of that with him

 

Others?

[devildavid]

John Farrell deserved to be fired. You can debate the performance all you want. I think the performance was good enough to hang on, but the clubhouse was a disaster. Your coach has to have accountability. How are you accountable when you leave your wife and are banging a NESN reporter? How is that accountable? You stay silent while Pedey effectively alienates his team in the Machado fiasco. You stay silent when David Price rips into a HOF broadcaster because he cannot take some criticism. This team had no leader and in those cases, you need your manager to lead, and Farrell isn't a leader. There were rifts all over the place. Farrell was being classified as a terrible communicator by an unnamed player in the locker room. Once a manager loses the locker room, he is useless and had to go.

 

Every clubhouse has its soap operas. How did the 2004 Sox win with Orlando Cabrera coming on to all the players wives? How about Manny's antics or Pedro and Schilling not getting along? That stuff has nothing to do with playing baseball or managing a team effectively on the field. Francona was accused of the some of the same crap you are leveling at Farrell. It didn't stop him from pulling off the greatest comeback in ALCS history.

[devildavid]

So who are on the list of replacements for Farrell?

 

Ron Gardenhire a very experienced and successful 60 year old.

 

DiMarlo Hale from the jays. A 56 year old who knows the players but doesn't soound like a mover or a shaker.

 

Alomar jr. an inexperienced candidate but that doesn't mean bad

 

Brad Asmus good baseball man with the Padres now but results were no so great. He is around 45

 

Jason Varitek would be inexperienced and on the younger side

 

Doug Martinez of the Cubs.

 

Alex Cora out of the Houston organization. Inexperienced but exposed to a forward thinking organization might bring some of that with him

 

Others?

 

My vote goes to Cora.

[Bellhorn04]

Some tabloid-worthy extracurricular activities by Brian Cashman didn't get him fired either.

[illinoisredsox]

Every clubhouse has its soap operas. How did the 2004 Sox win with Orlando Cabrera coming on to all the players wives? How about Manny's antics or Pedro and Schilling not getting along? That stuff has nothing to do with playing baseball or managing a team effectively on the field. Francona was accused of the some of the same crap you are leveling at Farrell. It didn't stop him from pulling off the greatest comeback in ALCS history.

 

Just my personal opinion and I could be completely off base, but I just see too many of the same type of player on this current team from a personality point of view. Who's the goofball who keeps everyone loose? The 04 team had Millar and players could laugh at Manny's antics because he produced on the field. Damon was a bit off the wall as well. The current group just seems like a bunch of quiet guys. Nothing wrong with having that personality, but you need both types on a roster.

[sk7326]

Movers and shakers for managers are largely nonsense. Baseball manager is the closest thing sports gets to a manager at the sort of job folks like us have. Coach your coaches, manage players and other stakeholders.

 

Hale has a ton of excellent experience and has managed at some level. Alex Cora is far and away the highest upside candidate - but yes he has not had a big league managing hitch before (although he has both manager and general manager experience in winter league). He has familiarity with Boston, but is far enough away to approach things fresh - has ex-player and front office experience. He has done television so the media skills should be there.

[sk7326]

slightly off topic - I think it's like a 50/50 chance Girardi comes back ... 9 years is a long time in a place like Boston or New York. He sounds at times like he could really use a long long rest.

[sk7326]

Just my personal opinion and I could be completely off base, but I just see too many of the same type of player on this current team from a personality point of view. Who's the goofball who keeps everyone loose? The 04 team had Millar and players could laugh at Manny's antics because he produced on the field. Damon was a bit off the wall as well. The current group just seems like a bunch of quiet guys. Nothing wrong with having that personality, but you need both types on a roster.

 

I see that. But the 2007 and 2013 teams were more buttoned up and that worked fine. I think winning and losing tends to feed this stuff too. This was a tough season a lot of levels. The team faced considerable adversity (and yes, some of it self inflicted) and still managed to win 93 games and win a division. I don't mind Farrell being canned - just hope Dombrowski does not pick an inferior replacement. I think Farrell is probably a middle third manager, you know somewhere in the #10-#20 range leaguewide ... so getting rid of him for an upgrade makes sense, but there are ways to do worse.

[moonslav59]

It's no secret I wanted JF fired for over a year.

 

Even so, I was a little surprised it happened.

[devildavid]

Just my personal opinion and I could be completely off base, but I just see too many of the same type of player on this current team from a personality point of view. Who's the goofball who keeps everyone loose? The 04 team had Millar and players could laugh at Manny's antics because he produced on the field. Damon was a bit off the wall as well. The current group just seems like a bunch of quiet guys. Nothing wrong with having that personality, but you need both types on a roster.

 

There may be something to that. Maybe you can be too blandly professional. But it still didn't stop them from winning the division. Maybe the young players would have been helped by a veteran presence. Hanley was one possibility, but he seemed like one of the few who likes clowning around. Pedroia just doesn't seem to have the right personality to be that guy either.

[devildavid]

slightly off topic - I think it's like a 50/50 chance Girardi comes back ... 9 years is a long time in a place like Boston or New York. He sounds at times like he could really use a long long rest.

 

It might depend on how far he takes the Yankees. I sure hope it isn't to a *gulp* World Series Championship.

[sk7326]

It might depend on how far he takes the Yankees. I sure hope it isn't to a *gulp* World Series Championship.

 

It might or might not - I don't think he's getting canned ... but he might want to leave.