JF Fired, New Thread, Please see new link

[Elktonnick]

I am guessing that the type of thing that we hear about as 'clubhouse issues' go on in every clubhouse every single year. We just never hear about them, until a team falters or collapses. That doesn't mean that said issues had anything to do with the collapse, but it does make for good headlines.

 

Yes, someone has to be held accountable, though I think the accountability is often misplaced.

 

I agree that anywhere other than Boston, Farrell would have probably survived. Just like Terry Francona before, Farrell's time simply ran out.

[bowman]

Not a big fan of Farrell, but at least now DD has his ass on the line. I don't care about all the drama about why JF got axed. All I care about is that we make some smart moves this off season and put a better team on the field with some thunder. I knew back before the trade deadline that the lack of power would hurt us. Stanton is a monster and will be a friggen god in Boston if we can get him. If Miami actually decides to move him and we can get him we have to do it. The Yankees have Judge and probably will go after Harper when he goes to FA, so we better make some big moves or we'll be sucking air. Bogie, Bradley = 40 hr's. Stanton, JD alone can poss. hit 90+. I'd put a package of Bogie, Bradley, Groome, and what ever to get Stanton. Sign JD, and go for a SS. Any combination of 2 players on our roster for Stanton and I'm in..

[SoxHop]

About now, all the Farrell apologists should be eating some crow or have egg on their faces or some other appropriate idiom. LOL!!!

 

So you blamed the team makeup and that it didn't have sluggers. And Farrell gets us to a Kimbrel meltdown or a couple wins away from being respectable........... and you blame the manager........choose your poison.......... you can't blame everyone.......

 

Let me guess...... with you at the helm we would have won 100 plus games....

Edited October 13, 2017 by SoxHop

[a700hitter]

So you blamed the team makeup and that it didn't have sluggers. And Farrell gets us to a Kimbrel meltdown or a couple wins away from being respectable........... and you blame the manager........choose your poison.......... you can't blame everyone.......

I didn't blame Farrell. But I didn't apologize for his managing throughout the year either.

[a700hitter]

Quote of DD from Speier's article;

 

But I think it’s going to be very important for whomever it is to be able to relate to those youngsters, and not only relate to them, but help them get better as players.

 

Maybe he was alluding to the lack of sound fundamentals.

[cp176]

Quote of DD from Speier's article;

 

 

Maybe he was alluding to the lack of sound fundamentals.

 

I wonder if he meant that whoever the next manager is that he might have to kick one or two of our youngsters in the ass and tell them to wake the f*** up! If he had said that, I might even like him.lol Our new manager just has to realize that he is just not one of the boys and that it is ok to treat someone who is an ******* like an ******* in spite of the size of said *******'s contract.

[Bellhorn04]

I think it boils down to Dombrowski wanting his own guy and Dombrowski making rash decisions.

 

I don't think this really qualifies as a rash decision. DD was hired in 2015, Farrell was canned at the end of 2017.

[Slasher9]

it looks like we all agree that it makes sense he was fired and it was time for JF to go. i defended him vociferously for years. ~ 2 months ago i was done with him and was fully on board with his dismissal. apparently DD and Henry agreed with me.

as stated in another thread....the new manager WILL be good with the kids. we WILL see better offense from the B's next season simply because of the managerial change. add in a stanton (and/or JD) and we will run away with the division.

Miami would look at a trade with Beni as the centerpiece and we can instantly insert a 100 rbi/40+ HR guy into LF and more importantly our lineup. hopefully DD take my advice and pursues this with vigor.

[sk7326]

I wonder if he meant that whoever the next manager is that he might have to kick one or two of our youngsters in the ass and tell them to wake the f*** up! If he had said that, I might even like him.lol Our new manager just has to realize that he is just not one of the boys and that it is ok to treat someone who is an ******* like an ******* in spite of the size of said *******'s contract.

 

Actually from the Speier piece, it is probably the opposite. The kids were telling themselves to wake the f*** up - THAT was the problem. The coaching staff - especially after Lovullo went to Arizona - lacked the touch to crack a joke and tell the kids their struggles are nothing that ball finding a hole between two fielders couldn't fix.

[Elktonnick]

it looks like we all agree that it makes sense he was fired and it was time for JF to go. i defended him vociferously for years. ~ 2 months ago i was done with him and was fully on board with his dismissal. apparently DD and Henry agreed with me.

as stated in another thread....the new manager WILL be good with the kids. we WILL see better offense from the B's next season simply because of the managerial change. add in a stanton (and/or JD) and we will run away with the division.

Miami would look at a trade with Beni as the centerpiece and we can instantly insert a 100 rbi/40+ HR guy into LF and more importantly our lineup. hopefully DD take my advice and pursues this with vigor.

 

Quite frankly, I think Farrell's firing had less to do with the team's performance and more to do with the off field mess and the resulting backlash in the media and among Red Sox nation. There was an excellent piece in the Herald how Farrell wasn't on the same page with ownership over the Eckersley dust up. That is the kind of thing that can get anyone fired no matter how well they perform on the field. Any way it is all moot because Farrell is gone. Time to move on to the next victim err I mean manager.

[Bellhorn04]

as stated in another thread....the new manager WILL be good with the kids. we WILL see better offense from the B's next season simply because of the managerial change. add in a stanton (and/or JD) and we will run away with the division.

 

Jeezus, don't start with the 105 wins and run away with the division stuff already...

[Slasher9]

Jeezus, don't start with the 105 wins and run away with the division stuff already...

 

i know i know. i cant help it. the eternal optimist. also, the yankees will be a .500 team at best.

[devildavid]

I wonder if he meant that whoever the next manager is that he might have to kick one or two of our youngsters in the ass and tell them to wake the f*** up! If he had said that, I might even like him.lol Our new manager just has to realize that he is just not one of the boys and that it is ok to treat someone who is an ******* like an ******* in spite of the size of said *******'s contract.

 

Name one example in today's MLB of a tough guy manager who is successful.

[Bellhorn04]

Name one example in today's MLB of a tough guy manager who is successful.

 

Depends what you call a tough guy. Is Showalter a tough guy?

[sk7326]

Depends what you call a tough guy. Is Showalter a tough guy?

 

Yes - although his recent success has been a little up and down. And certainly tough guys COULD work - and Showalter has dealt with young teams before too.

 

IMO, a baseball manager is the closest equivalent of any sports coach to your own boss in the actual job you have (or the sort of boss you are depending on your profession). A guy can have clear boundaries, not be your friend per se ... but still a guy you should be able to discuss problems with, and someone who knows when to press a guy hard and when to provide some encouragement.

 

That's the thing with a guy like Tito. He is a terrific manager yes, but he would also probably embody a lot of what would be the best boss you ever had regardless of whatever job you had. (assuming he was qualified for that job etc etc etc)

[illinoisredsox]

Depends what you call a tough guy. Is Showalter a tough guy?

 

I don't know if he's a tough guy, but I do know he's an *******.

[mvp 78]

I think it boils down to Dombrowski wanting his own guy and Dombrowski making rash decisions.

 

What rash decisions? I can't think of any.

[Dojji]

What rash decisions? I can't think of any.

 

I can't think of any decisions he made that were rash either. DD is not impulsive. He makes decisive decisions, but so far everything he's done has been well-considered and logical -- he's a high roller who takes calculated risks. Exactly what you need to do to consistently field a good team.

 

The biggest thing I saw him do that I'd consider inadvisable, was trade Shaw for Thornberg, but that has a logic to it as well, Shaw is a streaky hitter and we thought we needed bullpen help at the time. Turns out he should have kept Shaw in his pocket, since it turned out that we could really have used him -- but that wasn't really a rash decision, just a time where he took another of his calculated risks and this one didn't work.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

I can't think of any decisions he made that were rash either. DD is not impulsive. He makes decisive decisions, but so far everything he's done has been well-considered and logical -- he's a high roller who takes calculated risks. Exactly what you need to do to consistently field a good team.

 

The biggest thing I saw him do that I'd consider inadvisable, was trade Shaw for Thornberg, but that has a logic to it as well, Shaw is a streaky hitter and we thought we needed bullpen help at the time. Turns out he should have kept Shaw in his pocket, since it turned out that we could really have used him -- but that wasn't really a rash decision, just a time where he took another of his calculated risks and this one didn't work.

 

Yup, he's made bad decisions, but I don't think any were really rash.

[mvp 78]

I don't know if he's a tough guy, but I do know he's an *******.

 

Tough guys and ******* managers can only take you so far. That s*** wears thin and alienates a lot of players. I think the perfect manager would toe the line of tough but fair and affable but aloof.

[cp176]

Name one example in today's MLB of a tough guy manager who is successful.

 

Why? You are assuming that you know what I mean when I say a manager has to be tough on occasion. You obviously have an image of what you think someone who is tough when he needs to be must look like. I'm advocating for the best overall coach (manager ) that there is out there. In my opinion, and it really isn't all that unusual, is that that manger will be someone who has the guts once again to deal with jerks and jerk like situations firmly. He will be respected and cared for if he does. How about you sharing your list of very successful managers who do not deal with issues like we have seen this year quickly and firmly.

[cp176]

Tough guys and ******* managers can only take you so far. That s*** wears thin and alienates a lot of players. I think the perfect manager would toe the line of tough but fair and affable but aloof.

 

People in positions of leadership can be tough and not be *******s. I good coach can be tougher than hell and still be respected and maybe even loved. I think that you are kind of saying that. There are plenty of people out there who are loud, obnoxious, self-centered, who might think that they are tough but in reality many of them aren't. You don't have to be loud - you don't really have to be all that noticeable. You just have to have decent values and be willing to stand for things that you think are right.

[S5Dewey]

People in positions of leadership can be tough and not be *******s. I good coach can be tougher than hell and still be respected and maybe even loved. I think that you are kind of saying that. There are plenty of people out there who are loud, obnoxious, self-centered, who might think that they are tough but in reality many of them aren't. You don't have to be loud - you don't really have to be all that noticeable. You just have to have decent values and be willing to stand for things that you think are right.

Like...Just say NO to Machado!!

[devildavid]

Why? You are assuming that you know what I mean when I say a manager has to be tough on occasion. You obviously have an image of what you think someone who is tough when he needs to be must look like. I'm advocating for the best overall coach (manager ) that there is out there. In my opinion, and it really isn't all that unusual, is that that manger will be someone who has the guts once again to deal with jerks and jerk like situations firmly. He will be respected and cared for if he does. How about you sharing your list of very successful managers who do not deal with issues like we have seen this year quickly and firmly.

 

Now you are asking for something more nuanced, which I don't disagree with at all. But I have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in the detail needed to judge a manager. I only see the manager in the dugout and in the post game interview. That doesn't tell me how he handles each individual situation or how players react to him.

[Spudboy]

People in positions of leadership can be tough and not be *******s. I good coach can be tougher than hell and still be respected and maybe even loved. I think that you are kind of saying that. There are plenty of people out there who are loud, obnoxious, self-centered, who might think that they are tough but in reality many of them aren't. You don't have to be loud - you don't really have to be all that noticeable. You just have to have decent values and be willing to stand for things that you think are right.

 

Concepts mostly foreign to many younger people today.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't think this really qualifies as a rash decision. DD was hired in 2015, Farrell was canned at the end of 2017.

 

Agree.

[moonslav59]

Concepts mostly foreign to many younger people today.

 

Yes, CP nailed it.

 

As a volunteer ESL teacher at a nearby school, I often notice how students that return to the school many years later to thank a teacher, almost always they say something like, "You were really tough on me, but I needed that."

[cp176]

Yes, CP nailed it.

 

As a volunteer ESL teacher at a nearby school, I often notice how students that return to the school many years later to thank a teacher, almost always they say something like, "You were really tough on me, but I needed that."

 

thank you - It isn't uncommon knowledge that most people want clear and well defined boundaries. Wishy washy doesn't normally make it. A good manager, coach, or boss, doesn't miss things. They are aware of what is going on around them. People that pride themselves on appearing to be disciplinarians and just act like they are, I really have no use for. I was called a disciplinarian as a teacher and a coach but I can't say that they made me feel good. I just wanted to be good at what I did. On the other hand, I have 0 use for the good old boys who think that you just have to be one of the guys and everything will work out fine. Good, honest, firm, fair, and intelligent people will succeed and they more often than not can relate to just about anybody without regard at all for age. You don't have to be young to succeed with young players.

[cp176]

Concepts mostly foreign to many younger people today.

 

 

It is true and sad in many instances.

[cp176]

Like...Just say NO to Machado!!

 

 

I could live with that. I could also live with a team that did not have Pedroia or Price on it though too.

Edited October 13, 2017 by cp176