A Realistic View at 2018: Part I

[sk7326]

Bogaerts was too passive, and terrible at Pitch selection last year, needs to improve this. He can hit, its his mind that needs the change.

Like the Sox have 1 batting Coach now.

 

Hitting is hard when you can't grip the bat properly

[moonslav59]

My point exactly...

 

...and, I'm not saying the Pedey incidents were not blown out of proportion either, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear, years later, that players did not view Pedey as a leader or good teammate (not that it really matters, if he keeps doing well).

[moonslav59]

Hitting is hard when you can't grip the bat properly

 

I agree.

 

I'm giving Bogey a pass for 2017, but the slack might run out in 2018.

[oldtimer]

I agree.

 

I'm giving Bogey a pass for 2017, but the slack might run out in 2018.

 

Bogey's second halfs have been worse than the first in every year but one. His pitch selection in the second half in 2017 was poor and that has nothing to do with his wrist. His plate mechanics were bad as well and you might infer the wrist had something to do with that or it got into his head. My view is a new hitting coach might help him to be a better and more consistent hitter and even add some pop to his bat. We shall see. If not, his value will drop since his defense is not that strong.

[notin]

Bogey's second halfs have been worse than the first in every year but one. His pitch selection in the second half in 2017 was poor and that has nothing to do with his wrist. His plate mechanics were bad as well and you might infer the wrist had something to do with that or it got into his head. My view is a new hitting coach might help him to be a better and more consistent hitter and even add some pop to his bat. We shall see. If not, his value will drop since his defense is not that strong.

 

His first half OPS for his career - .771

His second half OPS for his career - .721

 

So he has hit better in the first half, but not substantially better. A lot of it could be he is simply healthier in the first halves of seasons....

[cp176]

I think there is a tendency for fans to insert themselves into these situations too many times and feel they know the answers or need to. There is an entire thread about the Price/Eck incident which was simply two grown men having a disagreement on a plane, something that might happen on 50% of all MLB flights for all we know. Yet somehow a large contingency felt this was a big newsworthy deal and we needed answers and public apologies, etc. And needed them NOW!!

 

On the first page of that thread, you had a post that said "Just let it go. Man, this town is tough. Everyone and everything is under a million microscopes."

 

One of the more accurate assessments of that incident...

 

I don't disagree with you much here notin. I guess that we are all fans and probably aren't privy to what goes on day to day in that dugout. The but here is that this is a talksox forum in a very slow off season and it is a forum made up of some well educated baseball fans. I love hearing and sharing opinions. As wrong as most of them are if they don't agree with me, I hope that they never stop giving them. leadership in general with respect to most organizations is very important and it can and should come from more than one person. What I really believe though is that we need to cut these guys some slack. It is a new year. As much as people were worked up over the Price Eck incident, I'm still not sure that he did anything wrong. I did not like what Pedroia said.

[Kimmi]

I know. One of my favorites.

 

I am guilty of participating in the batting order debates, but it is kind of funny how much time we spend on batting order, considering how little difference it actually makes. That said, it's a baseball forum. It's why we're here, to discuss/debate, ad nauseum, all things baseball.

[Kimmi]

One little incident with Papi I will never forget was when he destroyed that bullpen phone. Man was he angry.

 

I didn't really mind the phone incident. Yes, Papi could have handled the situation better, but that is easier said than done when your emotions are running high in the middle of the game.

 

Complaining about his individual stats, however, is one time that I wish he would have kept his mouth shut.

 

Also, he said some things during contract negotiations that shouldn't have been said, IMO.

[Kimmi]

I think that applies to a lot of incidents.

 

I'll open the bidding with chicken and beer...

 

Ha. I still believe that Beckett got a bad rap in that chicken and beer fiasco.

[Kimmi]

Bogaerts said in his press conference today that the leaders on the team are Pedroia, Porcello, and Price, in that order.

 

If Pedey is "the leader" of leaders, it's no wonder the team has "issues" to put behind them.

 

The point is that Bogaerts considers him a leader.

 

Shortly after the Machado incident, David Ross defended Pedroia as a great team leader.

 

I've never heard any of his teammates, past or present, say otherwise.

[Kimmi]

There is a big difference between Pedroia telling the press and the fans as opposed to him telling it to the clubhouse...

 

I agree. I see nothing wrong with what Pedroia said to the press. He was basically just affirming that he accepts that role, is how I interpret it.

 

Agreed.

[Kimmi]

I'm with Spudboy on the batting order stuff. Drives me nuts. Let the manager take care of it.

 

If only the manager would do it correctly.

[Kimmi]

Optimism this time of year is good.

 

One thing I've noticed though is how fast it disappears once the real games start. Just check out the game threads from the first few games of the season and you'll see it. I remember people getting down on Moreland last year because he started 0 for 8 or something.

 

You can count on me carrying my optimism through the entire season, unless we are mathematically eliminated.

 

It's a tough job, but somebody has to do it. I need some new pom poms.

[Kimmi]

Yes, but it shows how Pedey thinks and how he views himself.

 

What's wrong with a leader thinking of and viewing himself as a leader?

[Kimmi]

Put your best hitter 2nd ... the differences in lineup placement are small, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't grab whatever help you can. But batting 2nd has shown to be the best way to balance getting your best hitter more plate appearances while making sure he also gets plenty of RBI opportunities.

 

Just don't put your best hitter 3rd. Please.

[Kimmi]

If the team is winning, then it is keeping things loose. If the team does not win, it's a lack of discipline. Outcomes color all of it. It's silly but there you go. The good reporting tries a bit harder than using those symbols.

 

I have maintained that if the Sox had not collapsed and missed the playoffs, we would know nothing of the chicken and beer incident.

[Kimmi]

Did Cora say we cant keep taking fastballs down the middle, even if its strike one? Bringing in some Astros philosophy, like it, if its true.

 

Red Sox Stats

‏ @redsoxstats

1h1 hour ago

 

Red Sox Stats Retweeted Alex Speier

 

Bogaerts ranked 268th of 272 in swinging at first pitches that were middle-middle. Betts 263rd. Pedroia 251st. JD Martinez 15th.

[moonslav59]

What's wrong with a leader thinking of and viewing himself as a leader?

 

Because, in my opinion, he's not, and if the turmoil was as bad as some are now saying it was, he's either a poor leader, or we have players incapable of being led to the good.

[moonslav59]

Red Sox Stats

‏ @redsoxstats

1h1 hour ago

 

Red Sox Stats Retweeted Alex Speier

 

Bogaerts ranked 268th of 272 in swinging at first pitches that were middle-middle. Betts 263rd. Pedroia 251st. JD Martinez 15th.

 

Wow, 3 in the bottom 23, and all hit mostly in the top of the order.

[Bellhorn04]

Because, in my opinion, he's not, and if the turmoil was as bad as some are now saying it was, he's either a poor leader, or we have players incapable of being led to the good.

 

If there was turmoil it really didn't show up in the way the team finished this year. They were 18-9 in August and 17-10 in September. There was no collapse like there was in 2011.

 

We're hearing there was some tension, and a lack of fun, but it's hardly a case of a team falling apart.

[mvp 78]

If there was turmoil it really didn't show up in the way the team finished this year. They were 18-9 in August and 17-10 in September. There was no collapse like there was in 2011.

 

We're hearing there was some tension, and a lack of fun, but it's hardly a case of a team falling apart.

 

They said it affected the preparation for the playoffs more than regular season.

[Bellhorn04]

They said it affected the preparation for the playoffs more than regular season.

 

Who said what, exactly? Let's deal with the actual quotes.

[moonslav59]

I never said the team was falling apart.

 

I'm not sure that not falling apart should be the litmus test of leadership or lack of leadership.

 

Again, the whole "leadership" argument is difficult to debate. We could spend weeks on just defining or identifying what it is or looks like. Then, we could spend months on how much difference it makes or if it is as important as talent.

[Bellhorn04]

I just read some of Mookie's comments and they are a little surprising, because he's suggesting the team wasn't really ready for the playoffs the last 2 years. Frankly it all sounds like an indictment of Farrell.

 

But let's not forget David Ortiz was on that 2016 team too. I thought he was the leader then! (I'm just saying that to show how unfair some of this stuff can be.)

[cp176]

I just read some of Mookie's comments and they are a little surprising, because he's suggesting the team wasn't really ready for the playoffs the last 2 years. Frankly it all sounds like an indictment of Farrell.

 

But let's not forget David Ortiz was on that 2016 team too. I thought he was the leader then! (I'm just saying that to show how unfair some of this stuff can be.)

 

I'm assuming that you also mean blaming it all on Farrell is also unfair. Some here have suggested that leadership doesn't really play much of a role. If that is the case, the failure to be properly prepared for the playoffs lies directly on the shoulders of the boys making the big bucks. I know how important strong leadership is so obviously I don't believe for one minute what I just said.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm assuming that you also mean blaming it all on Farrell is also unfair.

 

No, I was talking more about blaming it on Pedroia this year.

[moonslav59]

Assuming Pedey returns in early June and there are no other major injuries (unlikely, I know), do you think this might be the PAs totals for 2018 are divided up?

 

No JD

720 Betts (RF)

680 Beni (LF with some CF & RF when MB & JBJ rest)

650 Bogey (SS)

650 Devers (3B/DH)

600 JBJ (CF)

575 Moreland (1B)

550 Nunez (2B, DH, 3B, LF, SS)

475 Ramirez (DH/1B)

450 Vaz ©

400 Pedey (2B)

150 Leon ©

150 Swihart (C, LF, 1B)

150 Holt (IF/OF)

100 Marrero or Lin (IF)

50 Brentz (OF)

 

With JD

720 Betts

680 Beni

650 JDM

650 Bogey

650 Devers

550 Moreland

550 JBJ

500 Nunez

450 HRam

450 Vaz

400 Pedey

150 Leon

0 Swihart, Marrero/Lin, Brentz

[cp176]

No, I was talking more about blaming it on Pedroia this year.

 

Oh - ok - sorry my mistake.

You want to blame Farrell that is fine. I'm going on the side of blaming no one. I'm sure that it is hard for some people to accept but Farrell did do some good things.

[cp176]

No, I was talking more about blaming it on Pedroia this year.

 

 

Wait - it just came to me - maybe you are blaming Pedroia for being injured! There you go. That makes sense. He isn't much of a leader but he can certainly play.

[Bellhorn04]

Oh - ok - sorry my mistake.

You want to blame Farrell that is fine. I'm going on the side of blaming no one. I'm sure that it is hard for some people to accept but Farrell did do some good things.

 

I'm just trying to interpret the information we're getting. When Mookie Betts says the team wasn't ready for the playoffs two years in a row that seems to be a knock on the manager. And of course the manager was let go in spite of back to back division titles.

 

I defended Farrell quite a bit this year. But now there's new information to consider.