2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe if Boras really was such a good agent he would have advised JDM to take the 125 million long ago and saved everyone a lot of grief.

[cp176]

i hope this guy is not a head case. I'd rather trade for Encarnacion or Machado and look for an elite bat in next year's FA group.

 

I just think that where there is smoke most of the time there is fire. He may not have said a thing but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he did. If the next best offer this guy can get is a one year offer from Arizona with the Red Sox offering 5 (125), it is tough to understand what his issue might be. Very very strange negotiating and I agree with you - move to the next plan very soon. he might not be the guy we want.

[cp176]

Yes.

 

He might be frustrated and antsy.

 

He might have said something to a friend that seems out of line.

 

None of this concerns me.

 

If he signs with us, it will be because he wants to play here. He's had more time to think about it than CC and Renteria had.

 

 

I think that if he signs with us it will ultimately be only about the money. If he is considering a one year deal with Arizona because he is unhappy with our offer then that says to me that he really doesn't want to play in Boston. If that is the case, wish he would just spit it out. He and Boras are wasting everybody's time.

[moonslav59]

I think that if he signs with us it will ultimately be only about the money. If he is considering a one year deal with Arizona because he is unhappy with our offer then that says to me that he really doesn't want to play in Boston. If that is the case, wish he would just spit it out. He and Boras are wasting everybody's time.

 

I think the fact that nobody is signing has added to the frustration level.

 

If he does not want to play for us, we'll find out at some point.

 

If other options are close to signing before we find out, we may need to move on or issue an ultimatum.

 

Until then, I don't think we should pass on our first option based on what JD said or might have said.

[oldtimer]

Generally, FA's are getting frustrated that they are not getting picked up by teams and here it is nearing the start of spring training. My personal opinion is that teams have been burned in recent years by picking up older free agent players for long term contracts at big bucks and see the risk in doing that. I believe there have been offers out there, like our $125 mil for 5 years to JDM, but the players are not satisfied and want more years and more $. It's a case of the players wanting to set the market based on how much the teams are making rather than their perceived value including the computation of risk. Perhaps the players will take some job action such as boycotting spring training or striking, however, the labor agreeent would preclude that. Unless the players can prove collusion againsts the teams, I think they are on shaky ground and may hurt baseball and ultimately themselves with ill conceived job actions.

[moonslav59]

Generally, FA's are getting frustrated that they are not getting picked up by teams and here it is nearing the start of spring training. My personal opinion is that teams have been burned in recent years by picking up older free agent players for long term contracts at big bucks and see the risk in doing that. I believe there have been offers out there, like our $125 mil for 5 years to JDM, but the players are not satisfied and want more years and more $. It's a case of the players wanting to set the market based on how much the teams are making rather than their perceived value including the computation of risk. Perhaps the players will take some job action such as boycotting spring training or striking, however, the labor agreeent would preclude that. Unless the players can prove collusion againsts the teams, I think they are on shaky ground and may hurt baseball and ultimately themselves with ill conceived job actions.

 

What's weird is that "older FAs" signed last winter year actually did pretty good in 2017.

[MADSTORK]

Unless Cora is a miracle worker? I see this Team contending for a Wildcard but not a World Series Championship. Martinez would improve the chances but I just do not see this team competing with Houston much less the Yankees or Angels who have vastly improved to win a Pennant.

 

For me its not the lack of Free Agent signings its the lack of potential trades that might subtract a struggling player on the Roster for much needed bench depth and bullpen help.

Kelly on the books at 4 add the pre arb figures for Barnes and Hembree your looking at 6 million plus tied up in 3 arms that have struggled while Reed walks for a difference of 2 million more per year. Plus you gave up 3 prospects arms for Reed. This scenario is a head scratcher?

 

Porcello and Ramirez = 43 mill on the books for 18 is another fiasco. Yet, no rumors of trying to move those Players for Payroll relief to go after a Darvish Cobb or perhaps a trade market available Player? I understand you can only eat so much cash but if Ramirez reaches the Vesting option with the amount of good hitting players available in the 18 19 free agent class, I fire Cora and Dombrowski!

 

Starting Pitching payroll $75 million. Pitching Coach in LeVangie who has Zero MLB Pitching Coach experience, Priceless.....

Edited February 7, 2018 by MADSTORK

[Spudboy]

I don’t remember Crawford getting booed at games. I think the fans were very patient with him.

 

Yeah that is my recollection as well. And like MVP I live here and see almost everything and hear almost everything.

 

He started to get a lot of s*** after the trade to LA and when he just could not say enough bad things about his Boston experience.

 

I loved the signing even though everyone here back then wanted Jason Werth.

 

Overall CC in Boston was a lesson in not all that glitters is gold.

 

f*** him.

[Kimmi]

JD isn't worth 6 x150. Period. He is barely worth 5x125. If he wants to sit out half a year I will gladly buy him a beer and watch some baseball with him. Baseball is a strange and unpredictable game. Who knows who will really produce this year. I know we had a lot of guys underproducing last year. If our pitching is solid we can compete with the Yankees this year WITHOUT Martinez. Let him sit it out......

 

My feelings exactly. I would like to sign JD, but we don't need him.

[Kimmi]

Ken Rosenthall reporting JD Martinez is fed up with the Redsox inflexibility and wants to join another club now .Well there's our answer JD is done with Boston .

 

If JD thinks the Red Sox are being so inflexible, let him find a better offer from another team. When he finds one, he can bring it back to the Red Sox, and perhaps the Sox will become more flexible. Until then, there is no reason for the Red Sox to bend.

 

I want JD, but if he's not going to be happy signing here for "so little money", then I don't want him.

[Kimmi]

@ChuckGarfien

 

I think I found my top buy low free agent pitcher to help the White Sox rotation next year. Clay Buchholz.

 

If I knew there was decent money in shitposting like these people, I'd have A700 numbers.

 

Or perhaps there is something to what all those people are posting?

[Kimmi]

I don't think we should really judge the guy based on these vague second-hand reports.

 

But maybe he should issue some sort of clarification before they're burning him in effigy in Boston...

 

I can understand that he is frustrated. He had ideas of close to $200 million for 6-7 years in his head, which would make the Sox offer seem like a lowball. However, saying that he prefers to sign with another team has obviously done him no favors among Red Sox fans. If he does end up signing with us, he will not be starting off on the right foot.

 

If he starts of the season struggling, things can go south for him in a big hurry.

[Kimmi]

Here is MLB's statement in response to Tony Clark's earlier statement:

 

Major League Baseball issued the following statement today in response to the comments made by MLBPA Executive Director Tony Clark:

 

"Our Clubs are committed to putting a winning product on the field for their fans. Owners own teams for one reason: they want to win. In Baseball, it has always been true that Clubs go through cyclical, multi-year strategies directed at winning.

 

"It is common at this point in the calendar to have large numbers of free agents unsigned. What is uncommon is to have some of the best free agents sitting unsigned even though they have substantial offers, some in nine figures. It is the responsibility of players' agents to value their clients in a constantly changing free agent market based on factors such as positional demand, advanced analytics, and the impact of the new Basic Agreement. To lay responsibility on the Clubs for the failure of some agents to accurately assess the market is unfair, unwarranted, and inflammatory."

 

Spot on, if you ask me.

[cp176]

Here is MLB's statement in response to Tony Clark's earlier statement:

 

Major League Baseball issued the following statement today in response to the comments made by MLBPA Executive Director Tony Clark:

 

"Our Clubs are committed to putting a winning product on the field for their fans. Owners own teams for one reason: they want to win. In Baseball, it has always been true that Clubs go through cyclical, multi-year strategies directed at winning.

 

"It is common at this point in the calendar to have large numbers of free agents unsigned. What is uncommon is to have some of the best free agents sitting unsigned even though they have substantial offers, some in nine figures. It is the responsibility of players' agents to value their clients in a constantly changing free agent market based on factors such as positional demand, advanced analytics, and the impact of the new Basic Agreement. To lay responsibility on the Clubs for the failure of some agents to accurately assess the market is unfair, unwarranted, and inflammatory."

 

Spot on, if you ask me.

 

sums it up pretty much for me

[Natick to NC]

Here is MLB's statement in response to Tony Clark's earlier statement:

 

Major League Baseball issued the following statement today in response to the comments made by MLBPA Executive Director Tony Clark:

 

"Our Clubs are committed to putting a winning product on the field for their fans. Owners own teams for one reason: they want to win. In Baseball, it has always been true that Clubs go through cyclical, multi-year strategies directed at winning.

 

"It is common at this point in the calendar to have large numbers of free agents unsigned. What is uncommon is to have some of the best free agents sitting unsigned even though they have substantial offers, some in nine figures. It is the responsibility of players' agents to value their clients in a constantly changing free agent market based on factors such as positional demand, advanced analytics, and the impact of the new Basic Agreement. To lay responsibility on the Clubs for the failure of some agents to accurately assess the market is unfair, unwarranted, and inflammatory."

 

Spot on, if you ask me.

Omg this is freaking FANTASTIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a nuclear warhead to the players union ,Players ,And a huge middle finger to Scotty Borassssss.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Natick to NC

[jacksonianmarch]

so that is interesting - I'm guessing that there might be one other person on here who appreciates what I have to say at least some of the time. You don't like what I have to offer - use the ignore button.

 

I never ignore someone. But I will call out BS when I see it. You’re not going to stop watching because JD wants more money. That’s just naive. The guy was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. He’s in his prime. He wants to be paid like prime hitters. Is he making stupid money, yes. Is he trying to get market value, yes. Don’t be a dolt

[S5Dewey]

I think my distaste for Machado is pretty well documented. He's been suspended twice. once for throwing a bat onto the field and once for punching Yordano Vetura in the face being the agressor in a bench clearing incident. And that was just in his first two years. And it seems that was just the tip of the iceberg.

 

https://www.athleticsnation.com/2014/6/9/5793370/athletics-orioles-manny-machado-buck-showalter-boooooooo

 

Then in 2017 there's that nasty issue with Pedey, and I'll be a lot older than I am now before I believe that was an accident.

 

So why is it some people wouldn't want to trade for Martinez if he's a head case, but they'd trade for Machado, who may be one of the biggest head cases and anger issues players in baseball?

 

IMO the jury is still out on Martinez but the verdict is in on Manny Machado. No thanks.

[S5Dewey]

The guy [Martinez] was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. He’s in his prime. He wants to be paid like prime hitters. Is he making stupid money, yes. Is he trying to get market value, yes. Don’t be a dolt

 

I don't disagree, except for one word. "Is he trying to SET market value, yes"

[cp176]

I never ignore someone. But I will call out BS when I see it. You’re not going to stop watching because JD wants more money. That’s just naive. The guy was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. He’s in his prime. He wants to be paid like prime hitters. Is he making stupid money, yes. Is he trying to get market value, yes. Don’t be a dolt

 

That's fine but I'm pretty sure you know why I said what I said. It has nothing to do with whether I will continue following the Sox or not. I am naive but I am pretty sure I learned something about you. If you don't think that what you said was a nasty insult then ya I'll call ******** on that.

[cp176]

I never ignore someone. But I will call out BS when I see it. You’re not going to stop watching because JD wants more money. That’s just naive. The guy was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. He’s in his prime. He wants to be paid like prime hitters. Is he making stupid money, yes. Is he trying to get market value, yes. Don’t be a dolt

 

 

I missed the dolt part to - you are on a roll. Come on come on keep em coming.

[jacksonianmarch]

You fired up yet? Any time someone says they're going to stop watching because the players are greedy don't truly understand the economics of the game and on a larger scale, our country. This is a capitalist economy. The goal of capitalism is letting the free market decide. I have literally no issue with the players making insane amounts of money. They are getting what they deem and what the market deems is their actual value. Degrading a player from getting their value is effectively un-American. What field of work do you do? When you got into the work place, did you get multiple offers? Did you ask for more money? Did you ask for different benefits? Did you have a lawyer pick apart the contract? This is the same thing the players are doing but on a much more lucrative scale. Also, any money JD leaves on the table ends up in a business man's pockets. It isn't going back into yours. Ticket prices won't come down if JD doesn't sign. I am all for the players, the guys who actually are the product of the MLB, getting money over some business man who owns the team and may have never done an athletic thing in his life. I am also okay with the business minds finding ways to maximize their profit margins. People don't buy baseball teams as charities, they buy them to make money. Baseball is a microcosm of the richest and best (my humble opinion) country in the world. We all get caught up in the fandom and it is fun as hell, but we also need to understand the cash involved and whether the guys who are working their asses off to be in peak physical shape who are throwing balls 95 mph or hitting balls 110 mph get the money or the guys at the top are. Throwing up empty threats of abandoning your team over the capitalism of baseball is just that, an empty threat and it makes you sound petty

[Natick to NC]

I think my distaste for Machado is pretty well documented. He's been suspended twice. once for throwing a bat onto the field and once for punching Yordano Vetura in the face being the agressor in a bench clearing incident. And that was just in his first two years. And it seems that was just the tip of the iceberg.

 

https://www.athleticsnation.com/2014/6/9/5793370/athletics-orioles-manny-machado-buck-showalter-boooooooo

 

Then in 2017 there's that nasty issue with Pedey, and I'll be a lot older than I am now before I believe that was an accident.

 

So why is it some people wouldn't want to trade for Martinez if he's a head case, but they'd trade for Machado, who may be one of the biggest head cases and anger issues players in baseball?

 

IMO the jury is still out on Martinez but the verdict is in on Manny Machado. No thanks.

 

I don't think I ever heard Manny having anger issues until now ...but must admit I don't follow him as close as some do .I have had similar opinions on players being a cancer to a team Bautista comes to mind .I guess I'm in the tread softly when engaging in Manny to Boston talk until I read more on this .Thankyou for another perspective on him ....I was screaming from the mountaintops to trade for Manny a few months ago .Side note he's pretty young still and when I was his age I was a twit so don't give up on him just yet he's very talented and may have something going on that just needs time to heal .

Edited February 8, 2018 by Natick to NC

[cp176]

You fired up yet? Any time someone says they're going to stop watching because the players are greedy don't truly understand the economics of the game and on a larger scale, our country. This is a capitalist economy. The goal of capitalism is letting the free market decide. I have literally no issue with the players making insane amounts of money. They are getting what they deem and what the market deems is their actual value. Degrading a player from getting their value is effectively un-American. What field of work do you do? When you got into the work place, did you get multiple offers? Did you ask for more money? Did you ask for different benefits? Did you have a lawyer pick apart the contract? This is the same thing the players are doing but on a much more lucrative scale. Also, any money JD leaves on the table ends up in a business man's pockets. It isn't going back into yours. Ticket prices won't come down if JD doesn't sign. I am all for the players, the guys who actually are the product of the MLB, getting money over some business man who owns the team and may have never done an athletic thing in his life. I am also okay with the business minds finding ways to maximize their profit margins. People don't buy baseball teams as charities, they buy them to make money. Baseball is a microcosm of the richest and best (my humble opinion) country in the world. We all get caught up in the fandom and it is fun as hell, but we also need to understand the cash involved and whether the guys who are working their asses off to be in peak physical shape who are throwing balls 95 mph or hitting balls 110 mph get the money or the guys at the top are. Throwing up empty threats of abandoning your team over the capitalism of baseball is just that, an empty threat and it makes you sound petty

 

I don't disagree with too much of what you say here. Some but not all. I may be petty as well but it is in fact how I feel. You made some good points but you insulting me over my comment? Are you s***ing me?

[jacksonianmarch]

Needed to liven this graveyard up a bit. You are welcome for getting reinvigorated

[Natick to NC]

You fired up yet? Any time someone says they're going to stop watching because the players are greedy don't truly understand the economics of the game and on a larger scale, our country. This is a capitalist economy. The goal of capitalism is letting the free market decide. I have literally no issue with the players making insane amounts of money. They are getting what they deem and what the market deems is their actual value. Degrading a player from getting their value is effectively un-American. What field of work do you do? When you got into the work place, did you get multiple offers? Did you ask for more money? Did you ask for different benefits? Did you have a lawyer pick apart the contract? This is the same thing the players are doing but on a much more lucrative scale. Also, any money JD leaves on the table ends up in a business man's pockets. It isn't going back into yours. Ticket prices won't come down if JD doesn't sign. I am all for the players, the guys who actually are the product of the MLB, getting money over some business man who owns the team and may have never done an athletic thing in his life. I am also okay with the business minds finding ways to maximize their profit margins. People don't buy baseball teams as charities, they buy them to make money. Baseball is a microcosm of the richest and best (my humble opinion) country in the world. We all get caught up in the fandom and it is fun as hell, but we also need to understand the cash involved and whether the guys who are working their asses off to be in peak physical shape who are throwing balls 95 mph or hitting balls 110 mph get the money or the guys at the top are. Throwing up empty threats of abandoning your team over the capitalism of baseball is just that, an empty threat and it makes you sound petty

 

I absolutely love JD as a player and he genuinely seems like a fantastic teammate .No one here wants to undercut his value I don't think they do ...if they did that they are undermining more than just a player .JD here is a great fit but not perfect he's very slow and yes he can field his position but we have an absolute juggernaut in all 3 outfield positions Defensivly.I don't think JD picked the greatest year ....not his fault ...to be a FA .The truth is the stock market rises and falls because of the health of a stock a company an industry ,Economic conditions ,And also if the stocks are in demand ....Right Now JD is a stock ...a commodity ....who is highly sought by one team 1 team ...The truth hurts but that's it and his market his stock his value has took a hit ...JD could do 2 things ...1 .go back to Arizona on a one year deal and hope there's more teams in the market the following year or 2. Cash in take the 125 million by a Lambo and a place on the cape say Chatham and live a wonderful happy existence as a hero in the most Baseball obsessed city God created .....up to him .But I'm from Natick and we don't pussy foot around ...we punch first ....so JD is kinda wearing on a lot of us .Figure it out pal .

[Hitch]

Here is MLB's statement in response to Tony Clark's earlier statement:

 

Major League Baseball issued the following statement today in response to the comments made by MLBPA Executive Director Tony Clark:

 

"Our Clubs are committed to putting a winning product on the field for their fans. Owners own teams for one reason: they want to win. In Baseball, it has always been true that Clubs go through cyclical, multi-year strategies directed at winning.

 

"It is common at this point in the calendar to have large numbers of free agents unsigned. What is uncommon is to have some of the best free agents sitting unsigned even though they have substantial offers, some in nine figures. It is the responsibility of players' agents to value their clients in a constantly changing free agent market based on factors such as positional demand, advanced analytics, and the impact of the new Basic Agreement. To lay responsibility on the Clubs for the failure of some agents to accurately assess the market is unfair, unwarranted, and inflammatory."

 

Spot on, if you ask me.

 

LOVE that.

[notin]

What's weird is that "older FAs" signed last winter year actually did pretty good in 2017.

 

Well it's been one year. How are some of the older free agents from 5 years ago doing?

[FredLynn]

I never ignore someone. But I will call out BS when I see it. You’re not going to stop watching because JD wants more money. That’s just naive. The guy was one of the best hitters in baseball last year. He’s in his prime. He wants to be paid like prime hitters. Is he making stupid money, yes. Is he trying to get market value, yes. Don’t be a dolt

 

No one is going to stop watching just because of the BS attitude of jackasses like JD Martinez. He wants to be paid FAR MORE than he is worth, apparently. He is not just trying to get market value, obviously. He has been offered "market value", and he wants more. Just greed. He is a GOOD player in his prime, not a great player. And in 6-7 years he will no longer be in his prime. He epitomizes...defines...the word greed. And yes, I do hold that against him.

[Natick to NC]

No one is going to stop watching just because of the BS attitude of jackasses like JD Martinez. He wants to be paid FAR MORE than he is worth, apparently. He is not just trying to get market value, obviously. He has been offered "market value", and he wants more. Just greed. He is a GOOD player in his prime, not a great player. And in 6-7 years he will no longer be in his prime. He epitomizes...defines...the word greed. And yes, I do hold that against him.

 

First things first that's a strong stance and that's awesome to have .I blame his obsolete agent and who I would demand takes a 25 percent cut in commission ....then accept Bostons offer ,its always been a fit and the highest offer.... then can scottie boy .

Edited February 8, 2018 by Natick to NC

[moonslav59]

Well it's been one year. How are some of the older free agents from 5 years ago doing?

 

Good point, but the free agents of 5 years ago were sucking out of the gate.