2017/18 Hot Stove Thread

[moonslav59]

How about our pitchers and the HR ball Home and Away?

 

2012-2017 HRs allowed:

Home: 508 (17th best)

Away: 541 (22nd best)

 

2003-2011:

Home: 661 (9th best)

Away: 769 (16th best)

 

Fenway is clearly not an HR park.

 

 

[moonslav59]

If its a Doubles Ball Park, then DD is smart not going after Stanton.

 

We hit way more in 2003 & 2004.

[cp176]

Fenway is not the HR park it used to be. It's a common misconception.

 

The team hit 95 away this year and just 73 at home. The players you listed hit 50% more HRs on the road (30 to 20).

 

Yearly Team HRs

 

'17 90H-73A

'16 102-104

'15 80-81

'14 49-74

'13 83-95

 

Change over

'12 88H-77A

 

'11 91H-112A

'10 98-113

 

Change over

'09 114H-98A

 

'08 79H-94A

'07 79-87

'06 83-109

'05 92-107

'04 111-111

'03 111-127

 

1986: 55 Home & 89 Away

 

1978: 94H & 78A

 

1975: 74H & 60A

 

 

Seriously - Fenway is no longer the HR hitter's park it used to be? lol I think that it has everything to do with the product that is being put out there on the field unless something dramatic has happened down there that I haven't seen. 2 years ago at Portland, it looked as though we had one guy that might have some real power on that entire team. That guy (Moncada) is no longer with us. More thought needs to be given to the types of hitters that are drafted than has been given in the past. Good little guys (which is what we are for the most part) quite often help good big guys win in any sport. It isn't the park - its the power outage.

[moonslav59]

Seriously - Fenway is no longer the HR hitter's park it used to be? lol I think that it has everything to do with the product that is being put out there on the field unless something dramatic has happened down there that I haven't seen. 2 years ago at Portland, it looked as though we had one guy that might have some real power on that entire team. That guy (Moncada) is no longer with us. More thought needs to be given to the types of hitters that are drafted than has been given in the past. Good little guys (which is what we are for the most part) quite often help good big guys win in any sport. It isn't the park - its the power outage.

 

It wasn't an HR park even with Papi and Manny. Our pitchers also let up more HRs on the road.

 

Offense and pitching both show HRs are hit more away than at Fenway. Weak and strong teams alike.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

It seems the Yankees and Pirates have lost momentum toward a prospective deal involving righty Gerrit Cole. Per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, via Twitter, talks have “cooled” since the Winter Meetings wrapped up.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/yankees-rumors-yu-darvish-jacoby-ellsbury-waive-no-trade-clause.html

 

Interesting. The Yankees were trying to dump C.Frazier on the Pirates for Cole. Apparently, Cashman has finally figured out that Frazier was more hype than prospect. Unfortunately for Cashman, it appears the Pirates have figured this out too. They don't want Frazier--they want Torres for Cole, which would actually be a fair deal for both sides. But Cashman doesn't make a trade unless he can rip off the other team (the ethics of a degenerate) and so it sounds like this is going nowhere.

 

I know some people disagree with my assessment of Frazier, but look over his numbers--he lacks elite production at every level and was completely overwhelmed at the major league level last season (84 OPS+). We are talking about a guy who is going to turn 24 years old in the upcoming season. At some point, you have to put up big numbers to prove you are a big time prospect. Frazier never has.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

Interesting. The Yankees were trying to dump C.Frazier on the Pirates for Cole. Apparently, Cashman has finally figured out that Frazier was more hype than prospect. Unfortunately for Cashman, it appears the Pirates have figured this out too. They don't want Frazier--they want Torres for Cole, which would actually be a fair deal for both sides. But Cashman doesn't make a trade unless he can rip off the other team and so it sounds like this is going nowhere.

 

I know some people disagree with my assessment of Frazier, but look over his numbers--he lacks elite production at every level and was completely overwhelmed at the major league level last season (84 OPS+). We are talking about a guy who is going to turn 24 years old in the upcoming season.

 

While I do agree the hype on Frazier was likely overblown, I think Cole is much better than some think he is. Not wanting to give up Cole for just Frazier does not mean Frazier does not have high trade value.... just not high enough.

[Michigan adam]

Fenway changed when they did the major renovations behind home plate and over the wall. It certainly changed the aero-dynamics of the park.

[Carpin]

Interesting. The Yankees were trying to dump C.Frazier on the Pirates for Cole. Apparently, Cashman has finally figured out that Frazier was more hype than prospect. Unfortunately for Cashman, it appears the Pirates have figured this out too. They don't want Frazier--they want Torres for Cole, which would actually be a fair deal for both sides. But Cashman doesn't make a trade unless he can rip off the other team (the ethics of a degenerate) and so it sounds like this is going nowhere.

 

I know some people disagree with my assessment of Frazier, but look over his numbers--he lacks elite production at every level and was completely overwhelmed at the major league level last season (84 OPS+). We are talking about a guy who is going to turn 24 years old in the upcoming season. At some point, you have to put up big numbers to prove you are a big time prospect. Frazier never has.

 

I think the Pirates overplayed their hand, they were asking for a Chris Sale package for him, Torres, Adams, + others; Torres has almost the same value of Moncada a couple years ago and Adams is like Kopech, I understand Kopech always had more upside but Adams is ML ready and there were some make up questions on Kopech. The package was similar.

 

Cole is nowhere near Sale in performance and years of control, I'm happy Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that trade.

 

By the way, Pirates have every right to ask for the best but is the other side decision to accept it.

[moonslav59]

Fenway changed when they did the major renovations behind home plate and over the wall. It certainly changed the aero-dynamics of the park.

 

Yes, that made a significant difference, but even before that, it was not a great HR park.

[cp176]

It wasn't an HR park even with Papi and Manny. Our pitchers also let up more HRs on the road.

 

Offense and pitching both show HRs are hit more away than at Fenway. Weak and strong teams alike.

 

Look Moon - You can show me every statistic that can possibly be compiled it will do no good. If our players were bigger, stronger, and better, the ball certainly would clear all the fences much more often than it has lately. Saying anything else is a cop out and a concession to the concept somebody whoever that might be drafted the best guys that they could for us moving forward. They are almost to a man over rated. This makes me no less of a fan though than the people who have continually criticized and actually said that the don't like DD. I like to think of myself as a realist.

[cp176]

Fenway changed when they did the major renovations behind home plate and over the wall. It certainly changed the aero-dynamics of the park.

 

 

I think that Fenway really changed when Papii retired an no real effort was made to replace his power.

[moonslav59]

Look Moon - You can show me every statistic that can possibly be compiled it will do no good. If our players were bigger, stronger, and better, the ball certainly would clear all the fences much more often than it has lately. Saying anything else is a cop out and a concession to the concept somebody whoever that might be drafted the best guys that they could for us moving forward. They are almost to a man over rated. This makes me no less of a fan though than the people who have continually criticized and actually said that the don't like DD. I like to think of myself as a realist.

 

1) I never meant to imply that we have a power issue on this team. Of course, we would hit more HRs, if we had more powerful players.

2) My point was that Fenway is no longer an HR park. The numbers show we hit more away HRs even when we had big and powerful hitters from 2003-2008.

3) I know you didn't say this, but I have never said I do not like DD. I give his overall job a plus rating, so far. I agree with you on that, and I know you are a big fan.

4) Clearly, our team looked over-rated last year by stats, but we still won the same as 2016. I'm hoping many batters come back to their 2016 numbers or better.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I think the Pirates overplayed their hand, they were asking for a Chris Sale package for him, Torres, Adams, + others; Torres has almost the same value of Moncada a couple years ago and Adams is like Kopech, I understand Kopech always had more upside but Adams is ML ready and there were some make up questions on Kopech. The package was similar.

 

Cole is nowhere near Sale in performance and years of control, I'm happy Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that trade.

 

By the way, Pirates have every right to ask for the best but is the other side decision to accept it.

 

(1) I would never put Adams in the same category as Kopech. Adams is interesting, but doesn't have Kopech's upside. Kopech's upside has increased over the last year, but his upside was huge even when the Red Sox traded him for Sale--this is why so many posters on soxprospects.com flipped out when they traded Kopech.

(2) I agree that Torres and Adams together are too much for Cole. However, I think the Pirates are right in asking for a package built around Torres. I think Torres and a lesser piece are fair value for Cole, whereas Frazier and Adams together are a joke of an offer. The kind of offer that only a scumbag like Brian Cashman would put together.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Carpin]

(1) I would never put Adams in the same category as Kopech. Adams is interesting, but doesn't have Kopech's upside. Kopech's upside has increased over the last year, but his upside was huge even when the Red Sox traded him for Sale--this is why so many posters on soxprospects.com flipped out when they traded Kopech.

(2) I agree that Torres and Adams together are too much for Cole. However, I think the Pirates are right in asking for a package built around Torres. I think Torres and a lesser piece are fair value for Cole, whereas Frazier and Adams together are a joke of an offer. The kind of offer that only a scumbag like Brian Cashman would put together.

 

Even if you don't like Frazier, you can't call a package of Frazier + Adams a joke; I'm not that high on Frazier either but I think it was a decent proposal. We agree that Sale is far better than Cole and also Kopech better than Adams but the difference between the last two was not that big, MLB Prospect had Kopech at 30 when the trade happened and Adams is at 53 right now. I know that rankings is not the best way to assign value to prospects but is a good baseline.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

If you accept the assumption that Frazier is nothing more than a 4th outfielder (my position), then you are really only giving up C.Adams for Cole, since 4th outfielders are fungible. C.Adams isn't good enough to lead a package for Cole IMO. In the first place, Adams is 6'1, kind of small for a starter. Let's face it, scouts love the big body, big guy, when it comes to projecting starting pitchers--they love the Curt Schilling and Roger Clemons bodies and Adams doesn't have that. Adams numbers in AAA are OK, but his ratios aren't dominant. I like Adams, just saying he isn't good enough to lead a package for Cole, an established major league starter with big time stuff.

 

Maybe there is a compromise deal to be made, like Adams and Florial for Cole or Adams and Andjujar for Cole.

 

My suspicion is that Cashman is pretty determined to trade Frazier, dump him on someone else.

[Carpin]

If you accept the assumption that Frazier is nothing more than a 4th outfielder (my position), then you are really only giving up C.Adams for Cole, since 4th outfielders are fungible. C.Adams isn't good enough to lead a package for Cole IMO. In the first place, Adams is 6'1, kind of small for a starter. Let's face it, scouts love the big body, big guy, when it comes to projecting starting pitchers--they love the Curt Schilling and Roger Clemons bodies and Adams doesn't have that. Adams numbers in AAA are OK, but his ratios aren't dominant. I like Adams, just saying he isn't good enough to lead a package for Cole, an established major league starter with big time stuff.

 

Maybe there is a compromise deal to be made, like Adams and Florial for Cole or Adams and Andjujar for Cole.

 

My suspicion is that Cashman is pretty determined to trade Frazier, dump him on someone else.

 

I don't think Frazier is a 4th OF, in my opinion he will be above average, just not a superstar like some people think.

 

Adams + Florial is too much for Cole, in my opinion Florial will be a stud, I believe he will be a top 10 prospect in baseball by mid 2018

 

Adams + Andujar is fair, I see Andujar in the same ballpark of Frazier.

 

I don't believe Cashman really wants to trade Frazier is more like he will deal him for the right player, Florial emergence has made Frazier expendable, plus the Stanton trade, there's no room for him in the OF, Yankees have at the ML Judge, Stanton, Gardner, Hicks, Ellsbury and Frazier, 6 players who can be playing full time in several teams; if they dump Ellsbury I bet Cashman removes Frazier from the trade block.

[mvp 78]

If its a Doubles Ball Park, then DD is smart not going after Stanton.

 

Stanton didn't want to come here so it doesn't matter.

[mvp 78]

Fenway changed when they did the major renovations behind home plate and over the wall. It certainly changed the aero-dynamics of the park.

 

Boggs hated it.

[mvp 78]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/baseballs-rainmaker-forced-out-after-alleged-misconduct-1513882805?mod=e2tw

 

Major League Baseball forced out the architect of its multibillion-dollar digital-media business last month, after years of troubling workplace behavior that former baseball executives were said to be made aware of at least a decade ago.

 

Other forces were at work, people familiar with the situation say. Bowman verbally abused a coworker in October, prompting Manfred to push him out, these people say. That was preceded by a July incident in which Bowman allegedly shoved an executive with the group that owns the Boston Red Sox.

 

People familiar with Bowman say he engaged in a pattern of behavior that included propositioning female colleagues, allegedly conducting consensual relationships with subordinate coworkers and cultivating a culture of partying and heavy drinking with employees outside the office.

 

At least 10 years ago, former MLB president and chief operating officer Bob DuPuy was told of concerns about Bowman’s behavior by BAM employees and raised them with former MLB commissioner Bud Selig, according to people familiar with the situation. DuPuy would not comment and referred questions to MLB.

 

“What he gave in heartburn was always overshadowed by what he gave in money,” said a former high-ranking baseball official. This person said DuPuy raised longstanding concerns about Bowman but, “Bud had no interest in dealing with it.”

 

During the week of the All-Star Game in July 2016 in San Diego, MLB Advanced Media hosted a party at which women were allegedly hired to entertain attendees, according to two people who attended. These people said the women, who arrived at the party by bus, were widely believed by attendees to be escorts. Some of them were heard encouraging attendees to leave to have sex quickly so that they could return to solicit another attendee before the party was over, according to one person who was there.

 

Manfred said he had no knowledge of the alleged escorts. But he felt MLB Advanced Media’s parties were inappropriate and, after the one in 2016, he said, he adopted a policy that MLB Advanced Media would not host any parties independent of the league office.

 

In the early 2000s, Bowman was standing with two female subordinates in BAM’s offices, a person familiar with Bowman said. To the women’s faces and within earshot of other BAM employees, Bowman referred to the women as “c___s.”

 

Under Bowman’s leadership, MLB Advanced Media grew into one of baseball’s biggest success stories. The company operates MLB’s website and popular mobile app as well the league’s online streaming service, MLB.tv.

 

In early 2010 Bowman considered running for governor of Michigan. In mid-February of that year he said he’d decided against it, saying, “for many reasons I am just not able to commit to run at this time,” according to the Associated Press.

[Kimmi]

Certainly, there is hope he can put together a full season of how he was doing before the toe injury.

 

Certainly, Moreland is a bargain when compared to Hosmer and even Santana, Alonso and likely Morrison.

 

If we still end up signing JD Martinez, I'm more than fine with the signing, especially, if we don't trade JBJ, so JD can play LF.

 

I still would have preferred to have JD at DH and start the season with HRam (with Swihart or Travis as the back-up) and see if the old HRam can return. If not, finding a decent 1Bman anytime during the season is one of the easiest things to do.

 

I am positive that Moreland is not our only offensive addition. JD is coming our way (or some other big bat).

 

I hope that Jackie is not traded. If he is traded, I think it's because there was a plan to trade him all along. In other words, the Moreland signing is not necessitating trading Jackie.

 

The more I think about it, the more that I think we can sign JD, keep Hanley and Jackie, and that scenario can work out really well.

[Kimmi]

It’s a screwy equation for sure. The other thing they don’t consider is the dichotomy between the $7 mil 1 WAR player and the $66 mil 8 WAR players and how contracts taper off. The bottom part of that WAR debate are all smashed together then there’s a significant bump from 2-3 WAR then a considerable market narrowing above that. Their calculation is based on a WAR to dollar average and it is effectively a straight line when actual dollar figures are more S shaped with similar salaries on the low and high end and a major rise in the middle

 

No, it's not a screwy equation. It's an accurate calculation of how much a player was worth to his team in terms of how much teams paid for marginal wins through free agency.

 

That doesn't mean that a GM will sign a player for $56 mil per year, but if he did and said player put up 8 WAR, he would be worth his contract.

[Bellhorn04]

No, it's not a screwy equation. It's an accurate calculation of how much a player was worth to his team in terms of how much teams paid for marginal wins through free agency.

 

That doesn't mean that a GM will sign a player for $56 mil per year, but if he did and said player put up 8 WAR, he would be worth his contract.

 

It's not a screwy equation, but it does reflect the fact that so much money has been flushed down the drain on free agent signings like Sandoval. The numbers are real, but a little sick at the same time.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Interesting: J.Beeks had better Triple A ratios last year than C.Adams. True, Adams is one year younger than Beeks, but still.....

 

And Beeks doesn't get all that much attention. True, Beeks is 5'11, and doesn't have the big body that scouts look for, but Adams is 6'1, thus he has no Roy Halladay or Roger Clemons body either.

 

At best, Adams is a future middle of the rotation starter. He is no ace in him at all. Admittedly, those guys are rare, but trading Cole for a future middle of the rotation starter (at best) along with Frazier, a guy who has never produced at a high level in the minor leagues? Can Brian Cashman stop trying to squeeze the life out of the small markets and at least offer something fair?

 

If the Pirates can't get Torres, and it sounds like they can't, they have to at least get Andjujar. Due to position scarcity, you take the infielder over the corner outfielder.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Carpin]

Interesting: J.Beeks had better Triple A ratios last year than C.Adams. True, Adams is one year younger than Beeks, but still.....

 

And Beeks doesn't get all that much attention. True, Beeks is 5'11, and doesn't have the big body that scouts look for, but Adams is 6'1, thus he has no Roy Halladay or Roger Clemons body either.

 

At best, Adams is a future middle of the rotation starter. He is no ace in him at all. Admittedly, those guys are rare, but trading Cole for a future middle of the rotation starter (at best) along with Frazier, a guy who has never produced at a high level in the minor leagues? Can Brian Cashman stop trying to squeeze the life out of the small markets and at least offer something fair?

 

If the Pirates can't get Torres, and it sounds like they can't, they have to at least get Andjujar. Due to position scarcity, you take the infielder over the corner outfielder.

 

Both have to stick to their interest, if there's no deal that satisfy both sides the deal should not happen period.

 

The Yankees need Torres and Andujar, the IF has two holes which can be filled by those guys, you deal guys which are blocked in their road to the majors, the same way Boston did with Moncada, they dealt him because Bogaerts was already in the first team and Sale took the future place of Kopech, you deal from your strength. The Yankees can afford to lose some of the high upside arms in the minors or prospects for the outfield, they are loaded in those two positions not in the IF.

[Spudboy]

Both have to stick to their interest, if there's no deal that satisfy both sides the deal should not happen period.

 

The Yankees need Torres and Andujar, the IF has two holes which can be filled by those guys, you deal guys which are blocked in their road to the majors, the same way Boston did with Moncada, they dealt him because Bogaerts was already in the first team and Sale took the future place of Kopech, you deal from your strength. The Yankees can afford to lose some of the high upside arms in the minors or prospects for the outfield, they are loaded in those two positions not in the IF.

 

Moncada was a second baseman not a short stop as far as I know.

 

Not that it matters. Your point is legit. Sometimes teams make moves that they would prefer not to make. I think so, anyway.

[Carpin]

Moncada was a second baseman not a short stop as far as I know.

 

Not that it matters. Your point is legit. Sometimes teams make moves that they would prefer not to make. I think so, anyway.

 

You are right regarding Moncada 2B, either way his future place was blocked in the ML team by Pedroia in his prime.

 

When teams stop doing this and they are forced to make a move, driven by panic, is when that deal comes back to bite you in the rear side. As a Yankee fan I hope Cashman doesn't give up on those prospects. If the pirates GM doesn't think the trade helps his team he shouldn't make the deal, as simple as that.

[moonslav59]

Interesting: J.Beeks had better Triple A ratios last year than C.Adams. True, Adams is one year younger than Beeks, but still.....

 

And Beeks doesn't get all that much attention. True, Beeks is 5'11, and doesn't have the big body that scouts look for, but Adams is 6'1, thus he has no Roy Halladay or Roger Clemons body either.

 

At best, Adams is a future middle of the rotation starter. He is no ace in him at all. Admittedly, those guys are rare, but trading Cole for a future middle of the rotation starter (at best) along with Frazier, a guy who has never produced at a high level in the minor leagues? Can Brian Cashman stop trying to squeeze the life out of the small markets and at least offer something fair?

 

If the Pirates can't get Torres, and it sounds like they can't, they have to at least get Andjujar. Due to position scarcity, you take the infielder over the corner outfielder.

 

So, how about Beeks & Chavis for Cole?

[MADSTORK]

I would like to see a few trades that might re-stock the farm even if they are B type prospects... Kelly Barnes ERod come to mind.

 

End of day Pitching wins in a Series. Cole in Pitt said to be had. Strong upside with a few very good seasons under his belt. You would have to think Boston could beat the proposed frazier and adams?

[MADSTORK]

So, how about Beeks & Chavis for Cole?

 

 

I was just thinking why the Sox have no interest? I would offer ERod and ?

[moonslav59]

I was just thinking why the Sox have no interest? I would offer ERod and ?

 

I'd give ERod and one from Ockimey, Beeks or Shawaryn.