Should DD be fired?

[Northern Star]

He's the architect of two straight postseason disasters. His ace pitchers have failed in the big spot. He has not replaced Papi. His offense just wasn't meant for these times. Do you trust him to fix the roster next season? Has he done enough to warrant another year or two?

 

Someone said it's enough just making the postseason. No, not in this town and not with this payroll.

[jacksonianmarch]

You're committed now. DD has another 2 seasons to put together a playoff excelling team

[Northern Star]

You're committed now. DD has another 2 seasons to put together a playoff excelling team

 

Well, he's off to a great start.

 

And don't take this thread to mean I personally think he should be fired, just making conversation because I'm sure it's what some of us are thinking.

[Spudboy]

No.

[moonslav59]

Not even close.

[Larry Cook]

Yes! Absolutely.

 

He is not capable of building a roster capable of winning a World Series. He got lucky in Florida, but now he is a has been without a plan.

 

All he can do is destroy an organization from the inside out!

 

Dynamic leaders attract the brightest and the best. Yet in our organization, they all fled the first chance they got.

[bosoxmal]

Best thing I can think of at the moment would be seeing David Ortiz in Ft Myers next March! AS MANAGER. tHIS GUY HAS MORE BASEBALL KNOW-HOW, AS WELL AS ENERGY, THAT ANYONE i CAN EVER RECALL!

 

And that incudes DD and JF combined!

[Bellhorn04]

Best thing I can think of at the moment would be seeing David Ortiz in Ft Myers next March! AS MANAGER. tHIS GUY HAS MORE BASEBALL KNOW-HOW, AS WELL AS ENERGY, THAT ANYONE i CAN EVER RECALL!

 

And that incudes DD and JF combined!

 

Personally I would love to see Ortiz become our hitting coach.

[Bellhorn04]

I think if you're going to make a big move you have to replace Farrell and see how things go next year. Maybe these guys just aren't as good as we hoped. Maybe another manager would get more out of them.

[S5Dewey]

Personally I would love to see Ortiz become our hitting coach.

 

I'd be happy seeing him as bench coach. IMO his enthusiasm and knowledge would bring a lot to the team.

[a700hitter]

He's the architect of two straight postseason disasters. His ace pitchers have failed in the big spot. He has not replaced Papi. His offense just wasn't meant for these times. Do you trust him to fix the roster next season? Has he done enough to warrant another year or two?

 

Someone said it's enough just making the postseason. No, not in this town and not with this payroll.

Two Division winning teams are a lot more fun to watch than 3 last place teams with $200 million payrolls. Edited October 7, 2017 by a700hitter

[oldtimer]

I think if you're going to make a big move you have to replace Farrell and see how things go next year. Maybe these guys just aren't as good as we hoped. Maybe another manager would get more out of them.

 

This discussion reminds me off the old 3 envelope joke adapted just for the Sox. It goes like this.

 

When JH hired DD he gave him 3 sealed envelopes and told him to consult them in order to get tips each time he encountered a serious problem with the Sox.

 

Well, last season the swoon at seasons end was just such a problem and DD remembered the envelopes so he decided to open envelope #1 to see if there was anyting helpful. The message contained was Blame Cherington. He did this in a sly way and the sportwriters seemed to soften up on the criticisms for a time and the Sox performed well enough to get a second pennant.

 

The problems came back along with the criticisms, when the Soxs looked pathetic in the ALDS and were swept for a second year in a row. By now, DD was aware of how the envelope #1 have eased the way for him so he decided to open envelope #2. And the message was Reorgaqnize. So he went out and fired his managers and coaches and brought in new talent to run the Sox.

 

Of course if this doesn't work out and the Sox don't seem closer to winning it all again the pressure and criticism will ultimately grow. At which time he will decide to open the envelope #3. And the message contained therein. Prepare Three Envelopes

 

I think DD is all right for now but his action at the end of this season may be to Reorganize.

[Larry Cook]

If we had the guy who is currently coaching arizona as our bench coach, then replacing Farrell with him is a no brainer, but right now to change our Farrell as a scape goat is not smart and would once again prove dave has no plan,

 

Farrell did not trade Shaw and go into this season relying on Pablo.

 

Farrell did not replace Ortiz with another power hitter.

 

Dave is a fireman and firemen are too busy reacting to crisis to think things through and develop a strategy.

 

Scorched earth is not a strategy, just a recipe for disaster. And right now dave is scorching everything he can get his tal Myles's hands on. He has already annililated the farm system. The major team is probably next.

 

Ps: Training refines talent, it does not create it, and sadly dave is not talented enough to do this job!

[notin]

First of all, the 2017 post-season isn't over yet. You'd think with as many comebacks as we have seen, some Sox fans might realize that.

 

Second, you don't fire a GM for making the post-season twice with two AL East titles after two last place seasons. It's a lot easier to build a losing team than a winning one.

 

I'm not even a big Dombrowski fan, but firing him now would be stupid...

[cp176]

First of all, the 2017 post-season isn't over yet. You'd think with as many comebacks as we have seen, some Sox fans might realize that.

 

Second, you don't fire a GM for making the post-season twice with two AL East titles after two last place seasons. It's a lot easier to build a losing team than a winning one.

 

I'm not even a big Dombrowski fan, but firing him now would be stupid...

 

Stupid wouldn't even be a strong enough word to describe it.

[Bellhorn04]

First of all, the 2017 post-season isn't over yet. You'd think with as many comebacks as we have seen, some Sox fans might realize that.

 

Second, you don't fire a GM for making the post-season twice with two AL East titles after two last place seasons. It's a lot easier to build a losing team than a winning one.

 

I'm not even a big Dombrowski fan, but firing him now would be stupid...

 

Message boards are a great place to vent though. I do it myself sometimes.

[Kimmi]

He's the architect of two straight postseason disasters. His ace pitchers have failed in the big spot. He has not replaced Papi. His offense just wasn't meant for these times. Do you trust him to fix the roster next season? Has he done enough to warrant another year or two?

 

Someone said it's enough just making the postseason. No, not in this town and not with this payroll.

 

Frankly, he should have never been hired.

 

#bringbackben

 

That said, should he be fired for the way the team has performed (or not performed) over the last two years? No. Dombrowski did his job of assembling a contending team. He can't control how the players perform on the field.

[Kimmi]

You're committed now. DD has another 2 seasons to put together a playoff excelling team

 

Red Sox Stats‏ @redsoxstats 4m4 minutes ago

 

"This should be a very strong team for the next three years." - John Henry

 

One down?

[Bellhorn04]

If you review history you can see that our franchise has made a series of grave mistakes that commenced in 2011. We had the best general manager and the best manager in baseball and they are now in other cities showing how it's done.

[Kimmi]

Yes! Absolutely.

 

He is not capable of building a roster capable of winning a World Series. He got lucky in Florida, but now he is a has been without a plan.

 

All he can do is destroy an organization from the inside out!

 

Dynamic leaders attract the brightest and the best. Yet in our organization, they all fled the first chance they got.

 

LOL I really like you.

 

I think Dombrowski did his job in putting together a team for the short term, but overall, I am not a fan of Dombrowski's way of doing business.

[Kimmi]

I think if you're going to make a big move you have to replace Farrell and see how things go next year. Maybe these guys just aren't as good as we hoped. Maybe another manager would get more out of them.

 

These guys are pretty good. 93 wins and a +117 win differential ain't too shabby.

 

They aren't as good as the Astros. Nor are they as good as the Guardians or the Yankees. But they're pretty good.

 

Personally, I think they are better than what they've shown us this year.

[Kimmi]

If you review history you can see that our franchise has made a series of grave mistakes that commenced in 2011. We had the best general manager and the best manager in baseball and they are now in other cities showing how it's done.

 

I have said it many times, and I firmly believe it. Henry is a panicker. When things go wrong, he has no patience to allow them to right themselves. He did it in 2011, and he did it again in 2015.

 

IMO, it hurt the team both times.

[Bellhorn04]

These guys are pretty good. 93 wins and a +117 win differential ain't too shabby.

 

They aren't as good as the Astros. Nor are they as good as the Guardians or the Yankees. But they're pretty good.

 

93 wins and a +117 differential and a second straight early exit are barely acceptable under the circumstances, which are a large payroll, high expectations, a depleted farm, a closing window and that whole damn cliff thing.

[notin]

If you review history you can see that our franchise has made a series of grave mistakes that commenced in 2011. We had the best general manager and the best manager in baseball and they are now in other cities showing how it's done.

 

After meeting in the World Series last year...

[notin]

Message boards are a great place to vent though. I do it myself sometimes.

 

True. That better be the case here.

 

Otherwise this thread boils down to "Dombrowski built a good team but someone else built a better one. So he should be fired!!"

[Kimmi]

93 wins and a +117 differential and a second straight early exit are barely acceptable under the circumstances, which are a large payroll, high expectations, a depleted farm, a closing window and that whole damn cliff thing.

 

Well, you know I'm not a fan of Dombrowski's philosophy, in particular the depleted farm and the impending cliff, so you're mostly preaching to the choir on that. Part of the reason that I'm not a fan of the 'win now' philosophy is that it guarantees nothing, and then you're left with nothing but the cliff. We could be as good as the Guardians are right now, and we would still be guaranteed nothing.

 

I can get on board for firing Dombrowski because I don't like his philosophy. However, the playoffs being the crap shoot that they are, I can't get on board with firing Dombrowski because of two early playoff exits, if indeed we do exit early this year. (It's not over yet!)

 

Exiting early would be extremely disappointing, but Dombrowski really can't control that.

[moonslav59]

I have said it many times, and I firmly believe it. Henry is a panicker. When things go wrong, he has no patience to allow them to right themselves. He did it in 2011, and he did it again in 2015.

 

IMO, it hurt the team both times.

 

As much as I felt Ben deserved a 5 year term to let his plan play out, I feel the same towards DD.

 

Like you, I disagreed with emptying the farm to such a large extent, and I felt we'd have made the playoffs with ben at the helm the last two years. That is what some posters seem to only want- at least that's what I thought they wanted.

 

Now that we are on the brink of being knocked out early and decisively, it seems just being competitive was not enough.

 

I can see the argument that DD built this team for a 3-4 year window for rings- not just making the playoffs, and our post season performance has been a let down, but the guy deserves at least 4 years to play out.

 

One could argue DD deserves less time than Ben, since his plan was for immediate results, while Ben's was for the longer haul, but not just 2 years.

Edited October 7, 2017 by moonslav59

[Jack Flap]

Many of this team's issues date back to decisions from the Cherington era, from the Sandoval and Ramirez contracts to (I would argue) the botching of the Lester and Lackey trades in 2014. Right now you can fault Dombrowski for not adding a power bat last winter and for trading Shaw, but that's about it. On the other hand, we wouldn't even be in it this year without Dave's additions (Kimbrel, Sale, and Pomeranz primarily).

 

I would think Dave's job is not even close to being in jeopardy at this point.

[Spudboy]

Many of this team's issues date back to decisions from the Cherington era, from the Sandoval and Ramirez contracts to (I would argue) the botching of the Lester and Lackey trades in 2014. Right now you can fault Dombrowski for not adding a power bat last winter and for trading Shaw, but that's about it. On the other hand, we wouldn't even be in it this year without Dave's additions (Kimbrel, Sale, and Pomeranz primarily).

 

I would think Dave's job is not even close to being in jeopardy at this point.

 

This is a logical and fair assessment.

 

I agree.

[Bellhorn04]

Many of this team's issues date back to decisions from the Cherington era, from the Sandoval and Ramirez contracts to (I would argue) the botching of the Lester and Lackey trades in 2014. Right now you can fault Dombrowski for not adding a power bat last winter and for trading Shaw, but that's about it. On the other hand, we wouldn't even be in it this year without Dave's additions (Kimbrel, Sale, and Pomeranz primarily).

 

I would think Dave's job is not even close to being in jeopardy at this point.

 

I agree. DD inherited a nice farm and some very good young position players. But he also inherited a terrible pitching staff and some crippling contracts.