Apple Watches!

[Maxbialystock]

I'm against cheating and am fine with any punishment that comes down. That said,

 

1. This cheating sure didn't help the Sox much.

2. Sign-stealing is completely OK, just not electronic sign-stealing.

3. But electronics are themselves just fine and are used in lots of ways to discover opposing team's weaknesses. One is to study a pitcher's motion throwing various pitches to spot a telltale. Maybe the Guardians have done that with Sale. Another is to spot a hitter's weaknesses, and this is undoubtedly what has happened to Devers. Another is to study a pitcher's motion to anticipate when is the right time to steal on him.

4. Every MLB team now has a dedicated video guy during the game whose only job is to instantly replay any suspect calls the manager might challenge. This has become so commonplace--especially the detailed replays--that some baserunners are now working on special sliding techniques to be able to snag the base even when the throw has beat them. They are hoping the replay will catch something the umpire didn't.

5. Legal sign-stealing has made the game even more complex because catchers must find a way to combat it. I would be surprised if there weren't regular instances when a pitcher--with a runner on 2d--throws the wrong pitch simply because the catcher signals are so complex he misses the call. All because of that guy on 2b. Some catchers now almost routinely jog out to the mound in key situations, including a man on 2b, simply to tell the pitcher what they should throw next. How is any of that good for baseball?

 

The Sox should be punished, no question. But I'm not sure a slam dunk resolves the whole issue regarding sign-stealing.

[Bellhorn04]

Peter Abraham thinks the Sox punishment will be basically a slap on the wristwatch.

[Maxbialystock]

I think DD laughs this off and doesn't care. This situation will have no impact on Farrel.

 

Very interesting, both of you--one saying will be fired and should be, the other this is no big deal.

[Maxbialystock]

Apparently it was working:

During the series in question, the Times reports, the Red Sox went 5 for 8 with runners on second base, including a Rafael Devers home run. They went 1 for 6 and 3 for 10 in subsequent games

 

Are we talking about the 4 games series just completed at Yankee Stadium? Or another series?

[Slasher9]

Are we talking about the 4 games series just completed at Yankee Stadium? Or another series?

 

It was the Fenway series before New York. MFY already reported it at Fenway. Apple gate was no more in New York series.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sign stealing has been with the game Has been in the game as long as there's been a game. Using an Apple Watch to relay the signals is expressly prohibited. Having the runner on 2b lean one way or the other when he knows what pitch is coming is not illegal and is actually somewhat encouraged.

 

The sox should be punished and I think this might be Farrell's Waterloo

[Bellhorn04]

Sign stealing has been with the game Has been in the game as long as there's been a game. Using an Apple Watch to relay the signals is expressly prohibited. Having the runner on 2b lean one way or the other when he knows what pitch is coming is not illegal and is actually somewhat encouraged.

 

The sox should be punished and I think this might be Farrell's Waterloo

 

No. Farrell's Waterloo will come if the Sox collapse.

 

You don't seriously think Girardi will be fired if the Sox counter-allegations turn out to be true, do you?

[Maxbialystock]

Sign stealing has been with the game Has been in the game as long as there's been a game. Using an Apple Watch to relay the signals is expressly prohibited. Having the runner on 2b lean one way or the other when he knows what pitch is coming is not illegal and is actually somewhat encouraged.

 

The sox should be punished and I think this might be Farrell's Waterloo

 

Is this a NYC thing, this inability to find an apt example from history? The rest of Europe ganged up on him and beat the crap out of the French Army because they caught Napoleon cheating, like on his mistress or something? You don't think we have bunches of cheaters who got their comeuppance right here in the good old USA? We are knee deep in famous cheaters who got nailed.

 

Besides, what's the point in going after Farrell when his ineptitude is what is putting him at risk? Or so we think on talksox, anyway. One theory is that firing Farrell now just might help the Sox, not penalize them. And don't forget the big signal from the FO--Farrell's contracts are year to year. Do you really think other MLB managers would be reacting to Farrell's firing now with, "boy, look what that cost him."

 

On the other hand, I would be most interested in any information on how often and in what games the Sox were cheating. My impression based on what I've read is that it was a cumbersome process that maybe wasn't always timely and therefore now and then no help. The Sox ineptitude hitting this year was and is a powerful incentive to cheat, but at the same time I'm not so sure it helped. Moonslav says the Sox OPS's are not only mostly worse than last year, they are also worse in the 2d half than the 1st half of this season.

[mvp 78]

No. Farrell's Waterloo will come if the Sox collapse.

 

You don't seriously think Girardi will be fired if the Sox counter-allegations turn out to be true, do you?

 

The Yanks need to be punished severely so that no team tries it again.

[Spudboy]

Suspend Tom Brady 4 games, wont matter anyway, Pats still win.

 

True.

 

However this year the Pats are carrying only two QBs so they would have no back-up starting Jimmy G.

 

So no.

[Northern Star]

So what would be a fitting punishment for Boston?

[a700hitter]

So what would be a fitting punishment for Boston?

We have already decided to accept a suspension of Farrell for the remainder of the season.

[Emp9]

Sign stealing is part of the game. Speeding up the stealing of signs with electronics is against the rules. Not sure if the broadcast was involved in the sign stealing, but it's a bad thing when the sox crush it when the guy is on second. Also, having someone upstairs figuring out the sequence and being able to relay their findings into the dugout takes away the art of stealing signs and turns it into a science undertaken by guys who don't play. In the grand scheme of things, the Yankees should have known better and should have switched up their counts more frequently. That being said, the sox need to be punished heavily so no other team tries to do this again. If the punishment is a slap on the wrist, then every team will do it

 

Soo... the Yankees YES Network camera is a free energy device, not an electronic one? Good to know. One would hope they share this civilization changing technology with the rest of us. Gas is getting expensive again.

[SoxnCycles]

Some folks seem to be missing the fact that DD said these things are common and are usually handled between GMs.

Even Manfred said he'd wished the thew Sox and Yankees had handled it between themselves.

 

Smacks of desperation for the Yankees to go public with this.

 

I'd suggest that Yankee fans look at the trajectory of the Indy Colts, since they decided to be the NFL snitches.

 

Good thing Manfred seems to have more brains than Roger Goodell.

[Slasher9]

Some folks seem to be missing the fact that DD said these things are common and are usually handled between GMs.

Even Manfred said he'd wished the thew Sox and Yankees had handled it between themselves.

 

Smacks of desperation for the Yankees to go public with this.

 

I'd suggest that Yankee fans look at the trajectory of the Indy Colts, since they decided to be the NFL snitches.

 

Good thing Manfred seems to have more brains than Roger Goodell.

 

excellent points. thank you sir...i actually needed this as i was doom and gloom about this cheating thing. this morning when i walked into my office there were 4 apple watches sitting on my keyboard. f***ing yankees fans....

[SoxnCycles]

excellent points. thank you sir...i actually needed this as i was doom and gloom about this cheating thing. this morning when i walked into my office there were 4 apple watches sitting on my keyboard. f***ing yankees fans....

 

Bastids.

Get a few of those "2017 AL East Champions" pennants, come Oct.

[illinoisredsox]

Slash, just remind them of that AL Farm team they had in Kansas City in the late 50's . Talk about cheating.

 

Here come the Yankees

Let's get behind and boo the Yankees

They're gonna learn to jeer the Yankees

Everyone knows they they cheat to win, cause

They're the New York Yankees

[Spudboy]

Some folks seem to be missing the fact that DD said these things are common and are usually handled between GMs.

Even Manfred said he'd wished the thew Sox and Yankees had handled it between themselves.

 

Smacks of desperation for the Yankees to go public with this.

 

I'd suggest that Yankee fans look at the trajectory of the Indy Colts, since they decided to be the NFL snitches.

 

Good thing Manfred seems to have more brains than Roger Goodell.

 

Excellent post.

 

I think the entire matter is an embarrassment to the Sox and to baseball. There are real problems in the world to be concerned about so this issue is just a minor distraction.

 

However, if the Sox have violated an MLB rule then there should be proportional discipline handed down.

 

As a fan I am disappointed in how ESPN in particular is running with this crap . This morning I have watched several videos on ESPN condemning the Sox. This is the same network that spearheaded the smear campaign of Tom Brady and the Pats with the deflategate nonsense. Now they are quick to jump on this to exacerbate and fuel the notion that Boston teams are just a bunch of cheaters. Why does ESPN not give equal time to the issue of Yes Network cameras doing essentially the same thing? Kind of disgusting to me as a sports fan that ESPN will not be objective just so they can increase their revenue or whatever.

 

Also, while I have not figured out exactly how my idea would work, I believe that having wireless communication between the dugout, catcher, and pitcher would probably eliminate sign stealing and as a side benefit, speed up the game since there would be far less catcher pitcher conferences at the mound.

 

Overall, I think this matter is just stupid.

 

Play ball you ass holes.

[Maxbialystock]

Peter Abraham thinks the Sox punishment will be basically a slap on the wristwatch.

 

Pete Abraham might just be the most credible commentator covering the Sox. He is paid by both the Globe and NESN--plus he blogs a lot--for a reason. Like Bo, Pete knows baseball.

[mvp 78]

Pete Abraham might just be the most credible commentator covering the Sox. He is paid by both the Globe and NESN--plus he blogs a lot--for a reason. Like Bo, Pete knows baseball.

 

He's probably just toeing the company line.

[bkzwhitestrican]

Per writer Mike Axisa:

 

"MLB is no doubt going to discipline the Red Sox for the whole stealing signs thing, though I don’t think it’ll be particularly harsh. They’re definitely not taking wins away or anything like that — that is not a precedent MLB wants to set — and ultimately, I think they’re going to slap them with a fine. I doubt they’re even going to take a draft pick away. The Cardinals had to pay a $2M fine and send their top two draft picks to the Astros for the hacking scandal, and that was a far more serious infraction. That was literally corporate espionage. The Red Sox broke baseball’s rules, not the law. The Red Sox have been playing the “he did it too!” game the last few days, but the fact of the matter is they used an illegal electronic device (the Apple Watch) in the dugout and admitted it when approached by MLB’s investigators. The sign stealing is not really the focus here. It’s the illegal electronic device. Technology is a huge part of baseball and everyday life, and it’s not going away. I think MLB will levy enough of a punishment a) because they have to do something, and to let teams know hey, don’t do this. Anyone hoping MLB hammers the Red Sox is probably going to be disappointed."

 

Seems logical.

[S5Dewey]

excellent points. thank you sir...i actually needed this as i was doom and gloom about this cheating thing. this morning when i walked into my office there were 4 apple watches sitting on my keyboard. f***ing yankees fans....

Cool! Scoop 'em up! I've always wanted one of those!!

 

What's the going price, considering they've been worn by Yankees fans?

 

[mvp 78]

Per writer Mike Axisa:

 

"MLB is no doubt going to discipline the Red Sox for the whole stealing signs thing, though I don’t think it’ll be particularly harsh. They’re definitely not taking wins away or anything like that — that is not a precedent MLB wants to set — and ultimately, I think they’re going to slap them with a fine. I doubt they’re even going to take a draft pick away. The Cardinals had to pay a $2M fine and send their top two draft picks to the Astros for the hacking scandal, and that was a far more serious infraction. That was literally corporate espionage. The Red Sox broke baseball’s rules, not the law. The Red Sox have been playing the “he did it too!” game the last few days, but the fact of the matter is they used an illegal electronic device (the Apple Watch) in the dugout and admitted it when approached by MLB’s investigators. The sign stealing is not really the focus here. It’s the illegal electronic device. Technology is a huge part of baseball and everyday life, and it’s not going away. I think MLB will levy enough of a punishment a) because they have to do something, and to let teams know hey, don’t do this. Anyone hoping MLB hammers the Red Sox is probably going to be disappointed."

 

Seems logical.

 

I agree. If they try to outdo the Cards punishment, it would make no sense.

[Spudboy]

Cool! Scoop 'em up! I've always wanted one of those!!

 

What's the going price, considering they've been worn by Yankees fans?

 

 

Lol. I was thinking this way too.

[Kimmi]

Some folks seem to be missing the fact that DD said these things are common and are usually handled between GMs.

Even Manfred said he'd wished the thew Sox and Yankees had handled it between themselves.

 

Smacks of desperation for the Yankees to go public with this.

 

I'd suggest that Yankee fans look at the trajectory of the Indy Colts, since they decided to be the NFL snitches.

 

Good thing Manfred seems to have more brains than Roger Goodell.

 

Good point about the GMs typically handling this type of thing.

[Kimmi]

Per writer Mike Axisa:

 

"MLB is no doubt going to discipline the Red Sox for the whole stealing signs thing, though I don’t think it’ll be particularly harsh. They’re definitely not taking wins away or anything like that — that is not a precedent MLB wants to set — and ultimately, I think they’re going to slap them with a fine. I doubt they’re even going to take a draft pick away. The Cardinals had to pay a $2M fine and send their top two draft picks to the Astros for the hacking scandal, and that was a far more serious infraction. That was literally corporate espionage. The Red Sox broke baseball’s rules, not the law. The Red Sox have been playing the “he did it too!” game the last few days, but the fact of the matter is they used an illegal electronic device (the Apple Watch) in the dugout and admitted it when approached by MLB’s investigators. The sign stealing is not really the focus here. It’s the illegal electronic device. Technology is a huge part of baseball and everyday life, and it’s not going away. I think MLB will levy enough of a punishment a) because they have to do something, and to let teams know hey, don’t do this. Anyone hoping MLB hammers the Red Sox is probably going to be disappointed."

 

Seems logical.

 

I agree, this sounds very logical. From all accounts that I've read, the penalty will not be harsh.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but it sounds like the Red Sox weren't just blowing smoke when they accused the Yankees of using technology to steal signs:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20608951/boston-red-sox-say-video-evidence-yanks-using-yes-camera-steal-signs

 

If MLB penalizes the Red Sox by taking away draft picks, they will have to do the same to the Yankees.

[SoxnCycles]

I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but it sounds like the Red Sox weren't just blowing smoke when they accused the Yankees of using technology to steal signs:

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20608951/boston-red-sox-say-video-evidence-yanks-using-yes-camera-steal-signs

 

If MLB penalizes the Red Sox by taking away draft picks, they will have to do the same to the Yankees.

 

That's not going to happen.

[mvp 78]

Deflated balls and apple watches. Lol

 

This is going to be punished heavily. Using electronics to steal signs is clearly cheating. They'll lose a draft pick most likely and be fined heavily

Nope, just the fines.

[mvp 78]

Espn reported "there is no meat to that bone" in terms of the complaint from the sox about the Yankees. The sox were caught red handed and admitted it. They're f***ed

 

Nope just fines.