Red Sox Trade Deadline 2017 Thread

[a700hitter]

I agree 100%. And it is why I blame Dave for the mess we are in!

 

He trades for every broke down reliever known to man. Not to mention mop up man abad, who is a bad pitcher.

 

He put third base in the hands of Pablo with nothing as far as a backup plan after he traded away Shaw and Moncada.

 

Ps: I totally support trading moncada and kopeck for sale, but he left us reliant on Pablo with no backup plan at third base.

 

Under his esteemed leadership most of our brightest and best have deserted the operations department and left for greener pastures.

 

Dave needs a taxi ride to the airport and a one way plane ticket to anywhere.

You preferred the stewardship of last place coffee boy Ben?

[Hugh2]

Cofveve boy has a ring, DD does not.

[a700hitter]

Cofveve boy has a ring, DD does not.

DD has a World Championship (with the Marlins) and bucket full of Division Championship. Ben' s last place ratio was 75%. Add to those lost seasons, the terrible contracts that he left behind and he was a disaster.

[Hugh2]

DD has a World Championship (with the Marlins) and bucket full of Division Championship. Ben' s last place ratio was 75%. Add to those lost seasons, the terrible contracts that he left behind and he was a disaster.

 

Touché

 

I forgot about Florida

[iortiz]

DD is light years better GM than Ben, and is not even debatable. As I said time ago, he wasn't even a GM, he was just a puppet.

[Spudboy]

So removing a .401OBP and OPS of 1.021 isn't an issue? He elongated your lineup. He saw a ton of pitches. He reached base 40% of the time. Guys hitting in front of him and behind him saw more pitches to hit and translated to Hanley and Pedey showing power they hadn't seen in years. You replaced the heart of your order with a guy who was allowed to walk for nothing in Moreland. This effectively shortened your lineup. Removing Shaw and relying on Pablo also hurt your lineup as it created a black hole where reasonable performance had been. We saw a similar issue when we lost Cano. We thought we could improve in other areas and replace MVP level performance. It didn't work out that way at all. You need to have a true masher in the middle of your order. That would suddenly and consistently elevate the play of those around him

 

I tend to agree with you Doc.

 

The idea that replacing "most" of the production lost with added pitching, Pablow, a full year of Benni, and Moreland sounded "okay". But in reality the idea appears to be as flawed as the "there is more than one way to build a rotation" concept.

[Larry Cook]

DD has a World Championship (with the Marlins) and bucket full of Division Championship. Ben' s last place ratio was 75%. Add to those lost seasons, the terrible contracts that he left behind and he was a disaster.

 

Were those ben's signings or larry's?

[BstHcpr]

Were those ben's signings or larry's?

 

Seems like a convenient scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

[cp176]

I agree 100%. And it is why I blame Dave for the mess we are in!

 

He trades for every broke down reliever known to man. Not to mention mop up man abad, who is a bad pitcher.

 

He put third base in the hands of Pablo with nothing as far as a backup plan after he traded away Shaw and Moncada.

 

Ps: I totally support trading moncada and kopeck for sale, but he left us reliant on Pablo with no backup plan at third base.

 

Under his esteemed leadership most of our brightest and best have deserted the operations department and left for greener pastures.

 

Dave needs a taxi ride to the airport and a one way plane ticket to anywhere.

 

We really are in some mess. lol Are we still in first place? Many of us questioned the team not finding an adequate replacement for what we lost in Ortiz's bat but overall the only decision that really looks questionable at all is the failure to have a back up plan for Sandoval. We have an adult in charge of the asylum. it is all good.

[Jack Flap]

Trading Shaw and betting on Sandoval to play third currently looks like a horrible blunder, but otherwise, all of Dombrowski's moves seem to be panning out, at least in the short term. This is a good team with a legitimate shot at a championship, particularly if we can find a way to add an impact bat. What the longer term effect of some of these trades will be remains to be seen, but in the here and now Dombrowski has done pretty much exactly what he was hired to do.

[jacksonianmarch]

We really are in some mess. lol Are we still in first place? Many of us questioned the team not finding an adequate replacement for what we lost in Ortiz's bat but overall the only decision that really looks questionable at all is the failure to have a back up plan for Sandoval. We have an adult in charge of the asylum. it is all good.

 

You should be better than you are, let's be honest. That rotation and an overperforming pen and you should be light years ahead of NY and TB

[cp176]

You should be better than you are, let's be honest. That rotation and an overperforming pen and you should be light years ahead of NY and TB

 

It is obviously not honesty but simply what your perspective is. I do not agree that this team should be better than what they are. If Thornburg and Smith were healthy and with us yes but from a hitting perspective not so much. Looking at this lineup realistically before the season many of us really questioned where the offense was going to come from. They are not all under performing.

[cp176]

Trading Shaw and betting on Sandoval to play third currently looks like a horrible blunder, but otherwise, all of Dombrowski's moves seem to be panning out, at least in the short term. This is a good team with a legitimate shot at a championship, particularly if we can find a way to add an impact bat. What the longer term effect of some of these trades will be remains to be seen, but in the here and now Dombrowski has done pretty much exactly what he was hired to do.

 

 

I'm not sure that I would call trading Shaw a blunder. It was a risk for sure not having a backup plan. But I'm thinking that it is safe to say that trading Shaw for an elite reliever might be considered by some (for sure not all) to have been a gamble worth taking. I like Shaw and would not have traded him. On this forum, trading him was not an unpopular move though.

[Jack Flap]

I'm not sure that I would call trading Shaw a blunder. It was a risk for sure not having a backup plan. But I'm thinking that it is safe to say that trading Shaw for an elite reliever might be considered by some (for sure not all) to have been a gamble worth taking. I like Shaw and would not have traded him. On this forum, trading him was not an unpopular move though.

 

I agree it didn't look bad at the time, but it's apparent now that we severely underestimated what Shaw was capable of. Forget the other players in the deal, and forget that Thornburg got hurt...I wouldn't trade a power-hitting third baseman with 5 years of control (the exact sort of player we'd dream about acquiring from any other club) for almost any reliever in the game, but if Shaw's performance this year is for real, that's exactly what we did. That's very tough to swallow...

[OH FOY]

Shaw is hitting .297 with 70 RBI's, DAMN! Didn't know he was Drafted 2 times by Theo, he must have really liked him. Edited July 23, 2017 by OH FOY!

[cp176]

I agree it didn't look bad at the time, but it's apparent now that we severely underestimated what Shaw was capable of. Forget the other players in the deal, and forget that Thornburg got hurt...I wouldn't trade a power-hitting third baseman with 5 years of control (the exact sort of player we'd dream about acquiring from any other club) for almost any reliever in the game, but if Shaw's performance this year is for real, that's exactly what we did. That's very tough to swallow...

 

I agree but nobody and I mean nobody could have predicted what he has done this year. Looking back, i guess I 'd say that signing Pablo and not just giving that job initially to Shaw is where the biggest mistake came. oh well - maybe Devers! We can hope.

[oldtimer]

8 days left and counting. DD is in a tough position with salary cosiderations he inherited and a limited set of trade prospects in the minors, which he himself depleted. Still, the target should include one good bat, preferably who can play third and one relief pitcher who can fill in the current need for an 8th inning bridege to Kimbrel or even close should Kimbrel become overused. He will not want to lose Devers nor Groome and I would also include Lin in that list of untouchables.

 

Can the Sox make improvements within their own organization? it is debatable but Devers is one possible key, Smth in relief might be an answer soon and Lin in my view could be an improvement in the utility area over Marerro and even Holt. Still, a big bat from outside would be welcomed.

[moonslav59]

I tend to agree with you Doc.

 

The idea that replacing "most" of the production lost with added pitching, Pablow, a full year of Benni, and Moreland sounded "okay". But in reality the idea appears to be as flawed as the "there is more than one way to build a rotation" concept.

 

I don't think anyone felt like more from Beni and a newly signed Moreland were going to "replace" Papi fully. The idea was that an improved defense and the addition of Sale would be enough to offset the slight loss on offense.

[Jack Flap]

I agree but nobody and I mean nobody could have predicted what he has done this year. Looking back, i guess I 'd say that signing Pablo and not just giving that job initially to Shaw is where the biggest mistake came. oh well - maybe Devers! We can hope.

 

Agreed...hopefully Devers makes it a moot point very soon.

[Kimmi]

So removing a .401OBP and OPS of 1.021 isn't an issue? He elongated your lineup. He saw a ton of pitches. He reached base 40% of the time. Guys hitting in front of him and behind him saw more pitches to hit and translated to Hanley and Pedey showing power they hadn't seen in years. You replaced the heart of your order with a guy who was allowed to walk for nothing in Moreland. This effectively shortened your lineup. Removing Shaw and relying on Pablo also hurt your lineup as it created a black hole where reasonable performance had been. We saw a similar issue when we lost Cano. We thought we could improve in other areas and replace MVP level performance. It didn't work out that way at all. You need to have a true masher in the middle of your order. That would suddenly and consistently elevate the play of those around him

 

Of course removing Papi hurts the offensive production. Your point about elongating the line up is a valid one. Your point about other hitters being 'protected' by Papi is not. The offense was going to see a drop off, but it should not be as big as what we've seen. The other guys in the line up are underperforming, and that is not due to Papi's absence.

 

Removing Shaw and relying on Pablo was a mistake, in hindsight.

[Kimmi]

I agree 100%. And it is why I blame Dave for the mess we are in!

 

He trades for every broke down reliever known to man. Not to mention mop up man abad, who is a bad pitcher.

 

He put third base in the hands of Pablo with nothing as far as a backup plan after he traded away Shaw and Moncada.

 

Ps: I totally support trading moncada and kopeck for sale, but he left us reliant on Pablo with no backup plan at third base.

 

Under his esteemed leadership most of our brightest and best have deserted the operations department and left for greener pastures.

 

Dave needs a taxi ride to the airport and a one way plane ticket to anywhere.

 

It's a good thing that Ben and Theo left such a strong core and strong farm, otherwise this team would really be a mess.

[Kimmi]

Seems like a convenient scapegoat for everything that goes wrong.

 

Not really. Ben made his share of bad moves, but I'm willing to bet that much of went wrong can be attributed to Larry's influence.

[Spudboy]

I don't think anyone felt like more from Beni and a newly signed Moreland were going to "replace" Papi fully. The idea was that an improved defense and the addition of Sale would be enough to offset the slight loss on offense.

 

I said most Moon. You must be jet lagged!

[Spudboy]

8 days left and counting. DD is in a tough position with salary cosiderations he inherited and a limited set of trade prospects in the minors, which he himself depleted. Still, the target should include one good bat, preferably who can play third and one relief pitcher who can fill in the current need for an 8th inning bridege to Kimbrel or even close should Kimbrel become overused. He will not want to lose Devers nor Groome and I would also include Lin in that list of untouchables.

 

Can the Sox make improvements within their own organization? it is debatable but Devers is one possible key, Smth in relief might be an answer soon and Lin in my view could be an improvement in the utility area over Marerro and even Holt. Still, a big bat from outside would be welcomed.

 

At the beginning of the season I stated that Smith would return about late July and the who knows if he will have good stuff. I forecast that he would probably make an appearance in August if all went well. Now he is throwing bullpen sessions and is scheduled to face "live batters" ( whatever that means ) mid week. It has been said by Farrell that he does not think Smith will be contributing much this year.

 

It seems I was correct, at least for the most part.

 

Don't count on Smith for s*** this season.

[notin]

8 days left and counting. DD is in a tough position with salary cosiderations he inherited and a limited set of trade prospects in the minors, which he himself depleted. Still, the target should include one good bat, preferably who can play third and one relief pitcher who can fill in the current need for an 8th inning bridege to Kimbrel or even close should Kimbrel become overused. He will not want to lose Devers nor Groome and I would also include Lin in that list of untouchables.

 

Can the Sox make improvements within their own organization? it is debatable but Devers is one possible key, Smth in relief might be an answer soon and Lin in my view could be an improvement in the utility area over Marerro and even Holt. Still, a big bat from outside would be welcomed.

 

So you're saying Dombrowski needs to prioritize the future of the utility infielder position over current needs for relief and offense? Lin is far from untouchable.

[Spudboy]

It's a good thing that Ben and Theo left such a strong core and strong farm, otherwise this team would really be a mess.

 

So you consider the Pablow, Hanley, Craig, and Castillo contracts not to be a mess? All that poorly invested money does not hamper DD's ability to move parts and fortify the roster?

 

I understand your point about there being significant chips in the system with which DD can wheel and deal. But to Credit Ben with leaving strong farm is telling only part of the story.

 

They left a big dent in the budget that will have adverse effects as we head towards that cliff.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Spudboy

[Nick]

I agree 100%. And it is why I blame Dave for the mess we are in!

 

He trades for every broke down reliever known to man. Not to mention mop up man abad, who is a bad pitcher.

 

He put third base in the hands of Pablo with nothing as far as a backup plan after he traded away Shaw and Moncada.

 

Ps: I totally support trading moncada and kopeck for sale, but he left us reliant on Pablo with no backup plan at third base.

 

Under his esteemed leadership most of our brightest and best have deserted the operations department and left for greener pastures.

 

Dave needs a taxi ride to the airport and a one way plane ticket to anywhere.

 

First of all, Sox has been one of top five spenders over the years. Budget for DD did not suddenly increase. Let's not paint the picture that we're all of sudden overspending.

 

On the heels of two last places (yeah, DD finished up the year on that second one), he came in with a mandate from Sox ownership.

 

We won the Division last year and we are currently in 1st place. It's a bottom line game. Simple as that.

 

Let me know when we get to that impending cliff.

[Spudboy]

Not really. Ben made his share of bad moves, but I'm willing to bet that much of went wrong can be attributed to Larry's influence.

 

Not according to Pete Abraham. I suggested that to him and he bit my head off.

 

I posted our discussion last week. You must have missed it or you are blinded by your undying adoration of things Benny:p

[Spudboy]

By the way Kimmi. I suspect you are probably correct about Larry.

[notin]

So you consider the Pablow, Hanley, Craig, and Castillo contracts not to be a mess? All that poorly invested money does not hamper DD's ability to move parts and fortify the roster?

 

I understand your point about there being significant chips in the system with which DD can wheel and deal. But to Credit Ben with leaving strong farm is telling only part of the story.

 

They left a big dent in the budget that will have adverse effects as we head towards that cliff.

 

You do realize DD was fired for leaving the Tigers in a similar position?