The Bullpen thread

[Larry Cook]

Any chance we can con Seattle into giving us a basket of used baseballs for reed?

[a700hitter]

On espn were saying that Farrell should have gone with Abbad vs Gregorious - L vs L ... and then he should have brought Kelly or Kimbrel.

 

We had a lot of opportunities to score more runs and we dididn't. Reed gave up the lead, very easy, and Kelly didn't help. We blew it again with the base running. Our fundamentals are a joke.

 

NYY didn't win, we lost it and ugly all the way.

The ESPN guys don't know what they are talking about with Didi. Managers have been getting burned by Didi all season long with the lefty-lefty matchup. The move was to bring in Kimbrel after Sanchez reached.

[notin]

The ESPN guys don't know what they are talking about with Didi. Managers have been getting burned by Didi all season long with the lefty-lefty matchup. The move was to bring in Kimbrel after Sanchez reached.

 

Actually Gregorious has a .668 OPS against LHP this year, as opposed to a .910 OPS vs RHP. Abad would have made sense.

 

Of course, bringing in Kimbrel to face Judge would have made even more sense...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Yeah, Farrell totally mismanaged that inning. He needed to act with more urgency and was slow to get Kelly up in the bullpen. The one good thing that came out of this game: the Red Sox are less likely to trust Reed. Reed immediately became the 8th inning guy, but he never earned that distinction with the Red Sox.

 

After Reed's meltdown, I'm hoping he will be demoted: Kelly stays as the 8th inning guy, Barnes the 7th, and Reed will now be a 6th inning reliever or someone who fills in when one of the top 3 can't pitch due to fatigue/overuse. You also bring in Reed when the Red Sox are down a run or two and will probably lose anyway.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[notin]

Yeah, Farrell totally mismanaged that inning. He needed to act with more urgency and was slow to get Kelly up in the bullpen. The one good thing that came out of this game: the Red Sox are less likely to trust Reed. Reed immediately became the 8th inning guy, but he never earned that distinction with the Red Sox.

 

After Reed's meltdown, I'm hoping he will be demoted: Kelly stays as the 8th inning guy, Barnes the 7th, and Reed will now be a 6th inning reliever or someone who fills in when one of the top 3 can't pitch due to fatigue/overuse. You also bring in Reed when the Red Sox are down a run or two and will probably lose anyway.

 

And yet Reed is still the best setup guy Dombrowski has acquired so far.....

[Bellhorn04]

And yet Reed is still the best setup guy Dombrowski has acquired so far.....

 

Brrr...this post is so cold I had to go grab a sweater, notin.

[Spudboy]

Brrr...this post is so cold I had to go grab a sweater, notin.

 

But it is true.

 

Just the way she goes boys.

 

Way she goes.

[Kimmi]

So after Reed wild pitched Sanchez to second, why didn't Farrell go to Kimbrel? This is a major pet peeve of mine. The game is on the line, the 3-4-5 hitters are up, and you save your best reliever and hope for the best. Saving Kimbrel for the ninth inning to hopefully face the 6-7-8 hitters in that case is flat out stupid. Let someone else face the bottom of the order and get the save...

 

I agree completely. The real save situation occurred in the 8th inning. I don't like saving the 'closer' for a save situation that may never come.

[Station 13]

Kimbrel was a bit anal when he said he doesn't like 3+ outs appearances. Since then he has not been used in such situation.

 

Workman should be given a crack at the 8th inning. His usage is just confusing. They have no roles for him.

[FredLynn]

At the very least we now know what we have in Reed...and don't have. He should not pitch beyond the sixth inning until he proves he can do the job.

And yes, Farrell totally mismanaged the game.

[Station 13]

At the very least we now know what we have in Reed...and don't have. He should not pitch beyond the sixth inning until he proves he can do the job.

And yes, Farrell totally mismanaged the game.

 

They got Reed to pitch the 8th inning, this lone appearance won't change anything. But I want Farrell to stop being a sitting duck and let a guy pitch to the 4-5th batters without recording a single out.

[notin]

Kimbrel was a bit anal when he said he doesn't like 3+ outs appearances. Since then he has not been used in such situation.

 

Workman should be given a crack at the 8th inning. His usage is just confusing. They have no roles for him.

 

The entire point was that Kimbrel should have been used in the eighth once Reed put the game in jeopardy. If Kimbrel could have gotten out of the eighth - and no Sox reliever was more likely to - than anyone else could have pitched the ninth.

 

Workman has barely pitched in the past 3 years and is much more of a question than answer at this point...

[Kimmi]

The entire point was that Kimbrel should have been used in the eighth once Reed put the game in jeopardy. If Kimbrel could have gotten out of the eighth - and no Sox reliever was more likely to - than anyone else could have pitched the ninth.

 

Workman has barely pitched in the past 3 years and is much more of a question than answer at this point...

 

Correct. Bringing Kimbrel into the 8th inning does not mean he necessarily has to get 3+ outs. If he can also pitch the 9th without risk of overuse, then great. If not, bring someone else in for the 9th.

 

The game needed 'saving' in the 8th. If a lesser reliever blows the game in the 9th inning, at least the game wasn't lost with your best reliever sitting on the bench.

[a700hitter]

Actually Gregorious has a .668 OPS against LHP this year, as opposed to a .910 OPS vs RHP. Abad would have made sense.

 

Of course, bringing in Kimbrel to face Judge would have made even more sense...

Of late, he has been burning opposing managers in these Lefty-lefty late game matchups.

[S5Dewey]

Correct. Bringing Kimbrel into the 8th inning does not mean he necessarily has to get 3+ outs. If he can also pitch the 9th without risk of overuse, then great. If not, bring someone else in for the 9th.

 

The game needed 'saving' in the 8th. If a lesser reliever blows the game in the 9th inning, at least the game wasn't lost with your best reliever sitting on the bench.

 

I do hate to appear cynical about this, but relievers get paid by the save. The more saves they get the more money they get in their next contract. If Kimbrel comes in to pitch the 8th and someone else pitches the 9th Kimbrel gets a "Hold" but someone else gets the "Save". Do you see where I'm going here?

 

I don't like that any more than anyone else does, but it's the way it is. And yes, once Reed got into trouble Kimbrel should have come in for the 8th.

[SoxHop]

The entire point was that Kimbrel should have been used in the eighth once Reed put the game in jeopardy. If Kimbrel could have gotten out of the eighth - and no Sox reliever was more likely to - than anyone else could have pitched the ninth.

 

Workman has barely pitched in the past 3 years and is much more of a question than answer at this point...

 

I'm with going with the 7th and 8th and 9th inning pitcher until the formula breaks down. I'd even throw the 6th inning in there. I can't stand that we have bought into the 9th inning guy needs to be the best pitcher. Not when the game is going to be lost earlier in the game.

 

Our bullpen should be managed, and not set to autopilot.

 

We've brought this up before, but heard that the 9th is the highest leveraged inning and such.

 

I call phooee..... we have a bunch of good releivers and they should be used at the best situation........ not when they are supposed to be in due to the formula.

 

All I was thinking yesterday is, please get two out and finally bring in Kimbrel, just get two out...... it shouldn't be that way...

[notin]

I do hate to appear cynical about this, but relievers get paid by the save. The more saves they get the more money they get in their next contract. If Kimbrel comes in to pitch the 8th and someone else pitches the 9th Kimbrel gets a "Hold" but someone else gets the "Save". Do you see where I'm going here?

 

I don't like that any more than anyone else does, but it's the way it is. And yes, once Reed got into trouble Kimbrel should have come in for the 8th.

 

The logic, which certainly does exist with some managers, that closers are "paid for saves", it's akin to starting players just because they make more money. Which means Sandoval should be starting over Devers for the next two seasons.

 

However last year, Terry Francona introduced the idea of using the best reliever, Andrew Miller, when the game wad on the line, going so far as to occasionally give him the save over the closer Cody Allen. THIS is the smarter way to run the bullpen. And why we really need Francona back...

[notin]

 

Our bullpen should be managed, and not set to autopilot.

 

.

 

Perfectly stated...

[notin]

Addison Reed is the new Greg Gagne

[a700hitter]

Addison Reed is the new Greg Gagne

Tonight was his mulligan and he flubbed it. I don't want to see him in high leverage situations.

[a700hitter]

Smith continues to trend upward in rehab

 

http://m.redsox.mlb.com/assets/images/3/0/4/248299304/cuts/1280x720/cut.jpgRed Sox reliever Carson Smith is working his way back from May 2016 Tommy John surgery. (AP)By Ian Browne / MLB.com | @IanMBrowne | 7:37 PM ET +

9 COMMENTS

NEW YORK -- The Red Sox continue to get encouraging reports on righty reliever Carson Smith, who pitched a scoreless inning with two strikeouts for Triple-A Pawtucket on Saturday, marking the third appearance of his rehab stint.

"Positive, both from [Pawtucket manager] Kevin Boles and from talking to Carson today," said Red Sox manager John Farrell prior to Sunday's game at Yankee Stadium. "The command was better last night. There was an uptick a little bit in velocity from maybe five days prior and in talking with Carson he just feels now he's gotten three appearances, the recovery time both in terms of his arm and his body is getting [shorter]. So these are encouraging things as we go through the early phase here. He'll be in a game again on Tuesday."

Smith underwent Tommy John surgery on May 24, 2016. Given how much time he has missed, the Red Sox are likely to give Smith the full 30 days on his rehab assignment, which expires on Sept. 3.

"I would expect to. We're sitting here in the middle of August. He's got three appearances, it's been a year and a half," said Farrell. "We're still spacing it out to no sooner than every third day in which he'd be in a game at some point. That will close down a little bit more to more frequent outings, but I think for right now, given all that he's been through, the more we can keep his trend moving upward, we'll stay the course for right now."

The addition of Smith would complement an already deep Red Sox bullpen that includes a stud closer in Craig Kimbrel along with setup men Addison Reed, Matt Barnes, Joe Kellyand Heath Hembree.

Worth noting

 

• Left-hander David Price played long toss for the third straight day on Sunday. There is still no time table for Price to throw off a mound, which is critical step in his attempted comeback from left elbow inflammation. Price was placed on the disabled list for the second time this season on July 28.

"Threw out to 90 feet, and tomorrow he'll have a scheduled off-day as part of the plan that's been laid out," said Farrell. "As we've done with each of his throwing sessions in which he's come out, we evaluate where he's at, assess how he's feeling and go from there."

Ian Browne has covered the Red Sox for MLB.com since 2002. Follow him on Twitter @IanMBrowne and Facebook. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Kimmi]

I do hate to appear cynical about this, but relievers get paid by the save. The more saves they get the more money they get in their next contract. If Kimbrel comes in to pitch the 8th and someone else pitches the 9th Kimbrel gets a "Hold" but someone else gets the "Save". Do you see where I'm going here?

 

I don't like that any more than anyone else does, but it's the way it is. And yes, once Reed got into trouble Kimbrel should have come in for the 8th.

 

Well, don't get me started on the whole 'save' and 'hold' stat. Those are not the key stats for which a reliever should be judged or paid.

[Behindenemylines]

Addison Reed is the new Greg Gagne

 

An Barnes has one good outing and then one bad one. It seems when the Sox RPs are off that night, they are really off.

[moonslav59]

An Barnes has one good outing and then one bad one. It seems when the Sox RPs are off that night, they are really off.

 

As great as our pen has been, other than Kimbrel, who can we really trust?

[fxkatt]

I've got to think we've seen the worst of Reed. He had 19 saves, 2.57 ERA, 48 k to 6 bb. with the Mets.

 

I know the AL is tougher, but I'm thinking his best is yet to come. Between he and Carson Smith, maybe the bull pen will peak again.

[Larry Cook]

As great as our pen has been, other than Kimbrel, who can we really trust?

 

Workman.

[moonslav59]

Workman.

 

I thought of him minutes after posting my response.

 

Who-da-thunk-it?

[notin]

Well, don't get me started on the whole 'save' and 'hold' stat. Those are not the key stats for which a reliever should be judged or paid.

 

The only reason saves matter is because fans overvalue them...

[Nick]

Workman.

 

He looks to be confident.

 

Kelly puts himself in a little ball.

Barnes is too soft.

Hembree doesn't give a damn.

 

Workman looks like a man out there.

[Kimmi]

I've got to think we've seen the worst of Reed. He had 19 saves, 2.57 ERA, 48 k to 6 bb. with the Mets.

 

I know the AL is tougher, but I'm thinking his best is yet to come. Between he and Carson Smith, maybe the bull pen will peak again.

 

I would tend to agree. He's a pretty good reliever and his K/W ratio is great. I think it's just trying to get acclimated to a new team and new catchers. At least I hope so. I think he'll be fine.