Should Jackie Bradley Jr be traded?

[S5Dewey]

JBJ's splits. Sept/Oct. wow.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=bradlja02&year=Career&t=b

 

That's interesting. JBJ's OPS for April/May is a career .684 and for 2018 it's .689. Essentially the same number. Then it goes up to ~.800 for three of the next four months. (Don't ask me what happens in July -I have no idea). Then it falls off the table for Sept. & October.

 

It could be that it takes him a while to 'tune up' and then he gets tired toward the end of the season. If so, getting him more rest now could pay off toward the end of the season. I just wish there were a better option than JDM in LF.

[moonslav59]

Since sports is entertainment, I'd much rather watch JBJ every day than a #3/4 starter (Pom?) every 5 days. And I think I agree about JD--although the discussion is so nuanced and intricate I'm not certain of that. Hanley is a great example of what can happen to a player unhappy with his role: when he was humiliating himself in LF, his hitting definitely suffered. When he moved to 1st (even though many argued he couldn't play the position), everything about his game improved. Too bad not all players look at the DH as Ortiz did.

 

The cracked shoulder had something to do with his numbers as well, and feelings towards playing the OF.

[moonslav59]

I think that everything that you mentioned here is very apparent using the eye test. If a player has limited range or is late breaking to balls, I feel certain that by watching them everyday I could see this as could most.

 

It's hard to catch late breaks while watching on TV. Especially corner OF. Sometimes the TV view has the CF'er in view the second the ball is hit.

 

As a TV viewer, we may never know if a ball was catchable or not.

 

Sometimes, you just see a hard hit ball hit into no man's land and suddenly JBJ appears out of no where and makes the play, and you think, "He must have got a great break on that ball!"

 

I haven't seen any of those plays with JD, but the Boston sample size is tiny.

[Emp9]

Rest the guys in September, not April with many off days in between. Seriously, I haven't seen players this cuddle before.

 

Sale, Porcello, Price, E-rod are our starters next season. With Sale and Porcello both hitting FA at the end. I doubt they could get much for JBJ as it will be 1 year to his FA.

 

Thing is, the only day off they’ve had from the 13 games straight was that Patriots Day rain-out. And I’m not sure if they used that monday as a travel day, if they did it’s not as big a day off as it may seem. Now off to play another 13 straight games... Would I ultimately like to see a better rest rotation for our regulars this time out? Yes. Yes, ... please(?).

 

But if that doesn’t happen, we’re basically sacrificing the last one or two games at Texas (4 game set), have a rest/travel day, to take on the Yanks then the Jays later on that week. The Yanks and Blue Jays series are MUCH more important to us than the Texas series. That’s how I’m going to rationalize it.

[cp176]

It's hard to catch late breaks while watching on TV. Especially corner OF. Sometimes the TV view has the CF'er in view the second the ball is hit.

 

As a TV viewer, we may never know if a ball was catchable or not.

 

Sometimes, you just see a hard hit ball hit into no man's land and suddenly JBJ appears out of no where and makes the play, and you think, "He must have got a great break on that ball!"

 

I haven't seen any of those plays with JD, but the Boston sample size is tiny.

 

 

If it's ok, I still think that I can trust what my eyes see with respect to whether or not a player is dead slow, gets a late break on a ball, or takes a wrong angle.

[moonslav59]

If it's ok, I still think that I can trust what my eyes see with respect to whether or not a player is dead slow, gets a late break on a ball, or takes a wrong angle.

 

Have you noticed JMart wandering aimlessly out there, yet?

[cp176]

Have you noticed JMart wandering aimlessly out there, yet?

 

Why did we ever sign that stiff anyway? If it wasn't for his absolute insistence that he play in that outfield, I bet that Cora might not play him at all. Maybe you have missed the times that I said that I think that he looks a little shaky out there. You think I need to get a different tv? Can I trust my computer screen more?

 

Whoops - forgot to add that this looks a little sarcastic but it certainly isn't the nasty s*** we often see here.

[Spudboy]

Mark Twain.

[cp176]

Mark Twain.

 

i'm beginning to think that it's a Springsteen gig. "Trust none of what you hear and less of what you see"

[moonslav59]

Why did we ever sign that stiff anyway? If it wasn't for his absolute insistence that he play in that outfield, I bet that Cora might not play him at all. Maybe you have missed the times that I said that I think that he looks a little shaky out there. You think I need to get a different tv? Can I trust my computer screen more?

 

Whoops - forgot to add that this looks a little sarcastic but it certainly isn't the nasty s*** we often see here.

 

LOL!

 

I thought we signed JMart to DH knowing he wants to play OF as much as possible.

 

I'm not against giving him time out there, and think him playing only in NL parks might be as much as he should get and expect.

 

I'm not the boss, but that's what I would do, especially after Pedey returns, and I'm looking for new PA opportunities for Nunez.

 

 

 

[cp176]

LOL!

 

I thought we signed JMart to DH knowing he wants to play OF as much as possible.

 

I'm not against giving him time out there, and think him playing only in NL parks might be as much as he should get and expect.

 

I'm not the boss, but that's what I would do, especially after Pedey returns, and I'm looking for new PA opportunities for Nunez.

 

 

 

 

I have 0 problem with looking at things this way. i think that it is pretty obvious that my big gripe is an overuse of all things analytical. I value their use for sure but if you do not buy into what they "seem" to say entirely it does not mean that your perspectives still can't be pretty good. I will still love the game with or without them.

[S5Dewey]

LOL!

 

I thought we signed JMart to DH knowing he wants to play OF as much as possible.

 

I'm not against giving him time out there, and think him playing only in NL parks might be as much as he should get and expect.

 

I'm not the boss, but that's what I would do, especially after Pedey returns, and I'm looking for new PA opportunities for Nunez.

 

 

 

 

And I thought JDM's desire to play in the OF was the major holdup on his signing. When he finally decided that nobody was going to pay him as much as the Sox were (are) willing to pay him he decided that the money was more important to him than the opportunity to play defense. IIRC there was even some chatter here that he wanted to play in the OF to prove that he can do it so he can opt out later to a team that will let him play both ways. And ya... I don't see that working out well for him thus far.

 

I agree that the most he should get would only to be playing in NL parks but I question whether that's what he expects. That raises the question of whether they're only playing him in the OF to keep him happy. And at the expense of having a better OF'er there?

 

As to Nunez, he may be as good as JBJ out there but I wouldn't know. I've never seen him play even one defensive out in the outfield, which raises a parallel question of, if he's that good why isn't he out there in place of JDM? Holt seems to have the SS position locked up until XBo gets back, we've got Lin up now to play 2B, so why isn't Nunez in the OF when Cora wants to give an OF'er a day off and JDM in the DH spot?

[Kimmi]

Right now, JMart as the 4th OF'er makes the most sense. Once Pedey squeezes Nunez out of a position, we will see.

 

It's really a choice between Moreland/HRam and Nunez. With Moreland at 1B, HRam at DH, and JMart in the OF, Nunez can only play when our SS, 3Bman or 2Bman needs a rest. That's only maybe once a week. I don't see that happening.

 

Assuming Swihart and Holt/Lin get zero PAs after Pedey comes back (doubtful), maybe we can see something like this...

 

Vaz and Leon continue sharing catcher duty.

 

1B: HRam & Moreland

DH: JMart & HRam/Nunez

2B: Pedey & Nunez

3B: Devers & Nunez

SS: Bogey & Nunez

LF: Beni & Nunez/JMart

CF: JBJ & Beni

RF: Betts & JBJ

 

10 players for 8 slots in the order. If we spread it our exactly evenly, whci i doubt we even try to do, it comes out to everyone sitting once every 5 games. Let's assume we rest Betts, Devers, JMart, Beni and Bogey once every 10 games (16 games a year). That leaves the other 5 guys (HRam, Moreland, Pedey, Nunez & JBJ) needing to rest 15 days every 10 games. That's 3 days off every 10 days. It doesn't seem realistic to me. My guess is one or two guys will be cut way back, or we might trade someone. Maybe someone is slumping badly or gets hurt and makes the choice easier. Is Nunez the worst hitter of the 10? Moreland? JBJ? Moreland & JBJ are plus defenders, but does that mean they play more than Nunez?

 

Pedey might need more rest than others but how much?

 

Things could get tricky.

 

 

Nunez is not meant to be a full time player. When Pedey comes back, Nunez reverts back to his utility role. Pedey will need regular rest, and Nunez will still get his share of at bats.

 

It's a good problem to have, I guess.

[S5Dewey]

I have 0 problem with looking at things this way. i think that it is pretty obvious that my big gripe is an overuse of all things analytical. I value their use for sure but if you do not buy into what they "seem" to say entirely it does not mean that your perspectives still can't be pretty good. I will still love the game with or without them.

 

Maybe it's my paranoia kicking in, but there seems to be an attitude among the people who favor stats that their stats trump years of experience. They'll give lip service to the perspective of experience but 'when the rubber meets the road' they have much more faith in statistics than they do in those who've played and coached.

IMHO stats and experience are equal - there's a good - and EQUAL - place for both. I've been following stats ever since Bill James' first Baseball Abstracts, the ones with the paper covers, and I've learned a lot about baseball from stats, but that doesn't mean that everything I know is statistically oriented.

 

Before I retired I worked at a plant where the manufacturing process was part art and part science. We'd have people with an engineering degree straight out of college come into the plant and immediately tell the machine operators how to run their machines according to the operational statistics they'd learned in college. The thing they eventually learned is that their statistics only go so far. When both the engineers and the machine operators learned that there was room for both science and art in the manufacturing process the quality and quantity of our product improved. There was room for both there, as there is in baseball and to insist that either of them is "wrong" is foolhardy.

[Kimmi]

If it's ok, I still think that I can trust what my eyes see with respect to whether or not a player is dead slow, gets a late break on a ball, or takes a wrong angle.

 

Your eyes are biased though. And that's not a knock on you, that's just human nature. That being the case, you might think that someone is a better fielder than he actually is because he's on your team.

[S5Dewey]

Your eyes are biased though. And that's not a knock on you, that's just human nature. That being the case, you might think that someone is a better fielder than he actually is because he's on your team.

 

That doesn't hold water.

 

I don't think JDM is a good outfielder and yet he's on my team. I don't think Bogaerts is a good SS and he's on my team. Why would I think one player on my team is a good player and another isn't if I'm biased toward any player who's on the Red Sox?

 

It just may be that some of us are able to tell a good player from a bad player regardless of what uniform they're wearing.

Edited April 24, 2018 by S5Dewey

[User Name]

That doesn't hold water.

 

I don't think JDM is a good outfielder and yet he's on my team. I don't think Bogaerts is a good SS and he's on my team. Why would I think one player on my team is a good player and another isn't if I'm biased toward a player who's on the Red Sox?

 

It just may be that some of us are able to tell a good player from a bad player regardless of what uniform they're wearing.

 

Both premises can be correct. Think about it.

[S5Dewey]

Both premises can be correct. Think about it.

 

Just as both can be incorrect.

[moonslav59]

Nunez is not meant to be a full time player. When Pedey comes back, Nunez reverts back to his utility role. Pedey will need regular rest, and Nunez will still get his share of at bats.

 

It's a good problem to have, I guess.

 

I didn't expect Nunez to play everyday, and I could see him and Pedey getting the most rest, once Pedey reaches his maximum comeback level. Maybe Moreland sits more, if he's down to his career .780ish level.

 

If Cora rests Betts, Beni, Bogey, Devers and JMart once every 20 games and Moreland, HRam, Pedey and JBJ once every 10 games, that leaves Nunez playing 13 out of 20 games. I guess that's close to enough. Maybe Pedey rests 3-4 games every 20, thereby giving Nunez about 3 out of every 4 games starting somewhere.

[cp176]

Both premises can be correct. Think about it.

 

I think that you are right.

[cp176]

Sorry but you don't know me. My eyes are actually not biased at all. We have had this discussion before. We have two different opinions for sure. You are convinced that you are right and I am happy for you.

 

Sorry - this was meant for Kimmi in reference to me seeing things in a biased way.

[S5Dewey]

Your eyes are biased though. And that's not a knock on you, that's just human nature. That being the case, you might think that someone is a better fielder than he actually is because he's on your team.

 

And OTOH a person with a lifetime of playing and coaching might be able to assess a player's strengths and weaknesses without consideration of which team they play for.

 

There are a lot of "mights" in this world. Some people might be so deeply invested in mathematics and data that they forget that there's a human side to baseball too and consequently forget that not everything in baseball is mathematically quantifiable.

[moonslav59]

Some people might be so deeply invested in mathematics and data that they forget that there's a human side to baseball too and consequently forget that not everything in baseball is mathematically quantifiable.

 

Some might be deeply invested in data but also played the game for over 20 years, totally enjoy the best game ever invented, totally have a deep emotional attachment to this wonderful game, and totally understand that not everything is quantifiable, including aspects on the "human side".

Edited April 25, 2018 by moonslav59

[S5Dewey]

Some people might be so deeply invested in mathematics and data that they forget that there's a human side to baseball too and consequently forget that not everything in baseball is mathematically quantifiable.

 

Some might be deeply invested in data but also played the game for over 20 years, totally enjoy the best game ever invented, totally have a deep emotional attachment to this wonderful game, and totally understand that not everything is quantifiable, including aspects on the "human side".

 

Exactly. You put that better than I did.

[cp176]

Some people might be so deeply invested in mathematics and data that they forget that there's a human side to baseball too and consequently forget that not everything in baseball is mathematically quantifiable.

 

Some might be deeply invested in data but also played the game for over 20 years, totally enjoy the best game ever invented, totally have a deep emotional attachment to this wonderful game, and totally understand that not everything is quantifiable, including aspects on the "human side".

 

Exactly! For those people I have a deep amount of respect. Kind of like when you run a business or an athletic program, good leaders admit freely that they are not always right and certainly don't know everything that could be known. You try to find people that are loyal and can do things better than you can do in some instances.

[SoxnCycles]

The cranky old guys got their abaci in a bind again...

[S5Dewey]

The cranky old guys got their abaci in a bind again...

 

It's a generational thing. The "cranky old guys" know that they don't have all the answers to all the questions but they respect the opinions of others.

[SoxnCycles]

It's a generational thing. The "cranky old guys" know that they don't have all the answers to all the questions but they respect the opinions of others.

 

Sure you do.

[S5Dewey]

Sure you do.

 

You really need to read - and comprehend - what the "cranky old guys" say.

 

It's obvious that you need to have the last word so... congratulations. You've got it!

[a700hitter]

Sure you do.

Says the biggest old crank on the board, whose M.O. is to criticize other posters or defend his alter ego, Kimmi. Buzz off.