Should Jackie Bradley Jr be traded?

[moonslav59]

How about Mays? I only saw him towards the end. (Not a lot of Giants games on tv in Maine in the 50s.) Of RS of that era, Pearsall was pretty great to watch (but hard to judge in terms of modern players).

 

I remember seeing Mays on TV, when he was old.

 

I started watching the Milwaukee Brewers their first year. We moved to Maine in '72 and that's when I really started following baseball closely (at age 13).

[moonslav59]

Lynn played the field better than JBJ? I know Lynn was a superb athelete, I was too young to watch him. I'm just interested.

 

Lynn was phenomnal on defense. He was fearless. He nearly broke his back one time slaming into the CF wall, (They have since added padding.)

 

He had great instincts and a strong drive to be the best.

 

When they traded him, I was so pissed!

 

JBJ is smoother, but I think he's slightly better on defense than Fred was. There's a long time gap between, so maybe my memory is not reliable enough to make the call, but JBJ seems like the best Sox defensive CF'er I've ever seen.

[jad]

Lynn was phenomnal on defense. He was fearless. He nearly broke his back one time slaming into the CF wall, (They have since added padding.)

 

He had great instincts and a strong drive to be the best.

 

When they traded him, I was so pissed!

 

JBJ is smoother, but I think he's slightly better on defense than Fred was. There's a long time gap between, so maybe my memory is not reliable enough to make the call, but JBJ seems like the best Sox defensive CF'er I've ever seen.

 

I don't remember the Lynn play. But I can still see Gary Geiger going head first into the bullpen wall from centerfield. Can't recall whether he walked away from it. Also, I don't remember Lynn making the kind of plays that JBJ seems to make routinely (e.g., that catch from RF the other night). But I probably didn't watch as many games then. (Best Pearsall move I recall was when during a pitching change, he (a la Manny?) went out and sat behind the flagpole that used to be in dead center. I think such things always worried his team-mates, who were aware he wasn't all that emotionally stable.)

[SoxHop]

Lynn was phenomnal on defense. He was fearless. He nearly broke his back one time slaming into the CF wall, (They have since added padding.)

 

He had great instincts and a strong drive to be the best.

 

When they traded him, I was so pissed!

 

JBJ is smoother, but I think he's slightly better on defense than Fred was. There's a long time gap between, so maybe my memory is not reliable enough to make the call, but JBJ seems like the best Sox defensive CF'er I've ever seen.

 

That's cool. Lynn must have been something else. Rookie of the year and MVP the same year. I wish they did documentaries on all those old players. I remember seeing a bit of Rice and Evans, but nothing about Lynn.

 

I haven't noticed lately, but I guess I just don't look for it as much anymore. But with JBJ, he seems to get a super jump on the ball as soon as it is hit. That was the first thing I noticed about him.

[moonslav59]

Here's the play Lynn broke his back...or nearly did.

 

 

Check this one out. Freddie took his eye off the ball twice and still robs an HR!

 

 

Watch how Lynn misses a 4 HR night by inches:

 

 

Lynn Montage:

 

 

Big game catch:

 

 

 

With the Angels:

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Check this one out. Freddie took his eye off the ball twice and still robs an HR!

 

 

 

This is the one I've always remembered. What a phenomenal play.

[cp176]

That's cool. Lynn must have been something else. Rookie of the year and MVP the same year. I wish they did documentaries on all those old players. I remember seeing a bit of Rice and Evans, but nothing about Lynn.

 

I haven't noticed lately, but I guess I just don't look for it as much anymore. But with JBJ, he seems to get a super jump on the ball as soon as it is hit. That was the first thing I noticed about him.

 

When Lynn and Rice broke in together in 1975 it was absolutely incredible. I kind of thought that Rice would get the Rookie of the year and Lynn would get the MVP. Freddie was just flat out smooth. He made everything look easy whether he was hitting it or fielding it. He patrolled cf.

[cp176]

I don't remember the Lynn play. But I can still see Gary Geiger going head first into the bullpen wall from centerfield. Can't recall whether he walked away from it. Also, I don't remember Lynn making the kind of plays that JBJ seems to make routinely (e.g., that catch from RF the other night). But I probably didn't watch as many games then. (Best Pearsall move I recall was when during a pitching change, he (a la Manny?) went out and sat behind the flagpole that used to be in dead center. I think such things always worried his team-mates, who were aware he wasn't all that emotionally stable.)

 

 

If it is even possible, Lynn was so smooth out there he made plays that others could not make look easy.

[notin]

When Lynn and Rice broke in together in 1975 it was absolutely incredible. I kind of thought that Rice would get the Rookie of the year and Lynn would get the MVP. Freddie was just flat out smooth. He made everything look easy whether he was hitting it or fielding it. He patrolled cf.

 

Reportedly Rice hated coming up the same year as Lynn and allegedly accused the Sox of holding him back a year until the white kid who could equal/overshadow him was ready...

[Kimmi]

We're pushing our luck.

 

He's bound to make a meaninful boo-boo at some point.

 

I'm fine with putting him out there in NL parks, but I'd avoid it as much as possible otherwise.

 

I agree with you about avoiding it as much as possible.

 

That said, Cora is going to play JD in the outfield fairly regularly, partly to appease JD and partly to rest the outfield. I can't really argue with that line of thinking either. Cora's thinking might change if JD starts hurting the team with his defense.

 

IMO, however, it's not going to be so much the obvious flubs that will hurt the team, but rather the harder to recognize plays that he just didn't make.

[cp176]

Reportedly Rice hated coming up the same year as Lynn and allegedly accused the Sox of holding him back a year until the white kid who could equal/overshadow him was ready...

 

i don't remember that but I guess it wouldn't surprise me much that Rice said that I guess. Times were not always easy for him.

[moonslav59]

I agree with you about avoiding it as much as possible.

 

That said, Cora is going to play JD in the outfield fairly regularly, partly to appease JD and partly to rest the outfield. I can't really argue with that line of thinking either. Cora's thinking might change if JD starts hurting the team with his defense.

 

IMO, however, it's not going to be so much the obvious flubs that will hurt the team, but rather the harder to recognize plays that he just didn't make.

 

To me, you know a flub is going to happen. I know there is more to the equation than just avoiding a JMart defensive flub, but when Pedey gets back, and Nunez is looking for ways to get PAs, I'm not sure if the equation indicates as much OF time for JMart.

 

Now, if Moreland & HRam keep smacking the ball around like they are now, then playing JMart in the OF here and there might still make some sense. The only way Moreland & HRam can play at the same time is for JMart to play OF or rest on the bench.

[moonslav59]

i don't remember that but I guess it wouldn't surprise me much that Rice said that I guess. Times were not always easy for him.

 

Him and many other black players in thet time and earlier (see Tommy Harper).

[cp176]

To me, you know a flub is going to happen. I know there is more to the equation than just avoiding a JMart defensive flub, but when Pedey gets back, and Nunez is looking for ways to get PAs, I'm not sure if the equation indicates as much OF time for JMart.

 

Now, if Moreland & HRam keep smacking the ball around like they are now, then playing JMart in the OF here and there might still make some sense. The only way Moreland & HRam can play at the same time is for JMart to play OF or rest on the bench.

 

Personally I'd be more comfortable watching JD in left field as opposed to watching Nunez anywhere on the field. I get why people don't want to see JD out there but suggesting that Nunez should be out there instead- really. My eyes tell me that he looks very shaky in the field. lol

[SoxHop]

Here's the play Lynn broke his back...or nearly did.

 

 

Check this one out. Freddie took his eye off the ball twice and still robs an HR!

 

 

 

That's a spectacular catch.

 

The one where he streaks in and makes the grab while he's an Angel is pretty fun also.

[moonslav59]

Personally I'd be more comfortable watching JD in left field as opposed to watching Nunez anywhere on the field. I get why people don't want to see JD out there but suggesting that Nunez should be out there instead- really. My eyes tell me that he looks very shaky in the field. lol

 

I've not seen Nunez play OF enough to know if he's better than JMart defensively, so maybe my sentiment is misplaced, but his numbers in the OF look much better than his IF Nunez. His OF numbers look better than JMart's. I've based my opinion on this. I reaalize I may be wrong and accept others may see things differently, including Cora.

 

[cp176]

To me, you know a flub is going to happen. I know there is more to the equation than just avoiding a JMart defensive flub, but when Pedey gets back, and Nunez is looking for ways to get PAs, I'm not sure if the equation indicates as much OF time for JMart.

 

Now, if Moreland & HRam keep smacking the ball around like they are now, then playing JMart in the OF here and there might still make some sense. The only way Moreland & HRam can play at the same time is for JMart to play OF or rest on the bench.

 

What I am hearing you say here is that even though JD has made every play to date that he hasn't looked pretty doing it. Are your eyes telling you something that the stats are not backing up so far this year?

[moonslav59]

What I am hearing you say here is that even though JD has made every play to date that he hasn't looked pretty doing it. Are your eyes telling you something that the stats are not backing up so far this year?

 

I'd never use a tiny sample size like JD's 2018 defensive innings played to make any managerial decision.

 

JMart has never been a plus defenseder, and going errorless this season should not make anyone think things have changed.

 

UZR150 is supposed to be used in 2-3 year sample sizes not 4-6 games or whatever he's played thus far.

 

I don't think I'm alone in thinking he not a plus on defense. If Cora thinks the offensive gain outweighs the loss on defnese here and there, I'm not going to claim I know better, but I will give my opinion here and there.

[cp176]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but let me get this straight - correct me if I'm wrong. Past statistics say that he has sucked defensively - Now even though he has not made an error in the field this year , he still sucks out there only now it is because he looks bad. is that what you are telling me? This emphasizes the importance of what my eyes tell me. I'm a little nervous when a ball is hit toward him as well but those past stats don't have much meaning to me. He is making plays while looking bad doing it! I can live with that. To date the stats don't support the claim that he sucks out there. No one claims he is a plus defensively by the way.

[moonslav59]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but let me get this straight - correct me if I'm wrong. Past statistics say that he has sucked defensively - Now even though he has not made an error in the field this year , he still sucks out there only now it is because he looks bad. is that what you are telling me? This emphasizes the importance of what my eyes tell me. I'm a little nervous when a ball is hit toward him as well but those past stats don't have much meaning to me. He is making plays while looking bad doing it! I can live with that. To date the stats don't support the claim that he sucks out there. No one claims he is a plus defensively by the way.

 

He's played 68 innings in the OF and made 15 plays.

 

Yes, I think the eye test over rides any stat or metric with such a tiny sample size, assuming you've seen all 15 plays he's made and maybe a few you think he could have gotten to.

 

Besides, the eye test is fine for people watching a player every play of every game, but not when you then try to compare that player to others you've only seen 3 times a year, if ever.

[cp176]

He's played 68 innings in the OF and made 15 plays.

 

Yes, I think the eye test over rides any stat or metric with such a tiny sample size, assuming you've seen all 15 plays he's made and maybe a few you think he could have gotten to.

 

Besides, the eye test is fine for people watching a player every play of every game, but not when you then try to compare that player to others you've only seen 3 times a year, if ever.

 

Believe it or not, i do agree with you. And I would be the first to tell you that my primary focus is on just on one team. We have had these discussions before about some of our other guys as well haven't we. It's kind of like trying to compare the defensive abilities of Lynn and Bradley I think. I watched lynn extensively as I have bradley. Two great great defensive players. Tough to go wrong with either one.

[moonslav59]

Believe it or not, i do agree with you. And I would be the first to tell you that my primary focus is on just on one team. We have had these discussions before about some of our other guys as well haven't we. It's kind of like trying to compare the defensive abilities of Lynn and Bradley I think. I watched lynn extensively as I have bradley. Two great great defensive players. Tough to go wrong with either one.

 

We've agreed a couple of times before, so yes, I do believe you.

 

 

I'm okay with JMart in the OF, when it significantly improves the defense and accomplishes other goals, like keeping JMart happy, getting other players into the game (Moreland/Swihart). I think the situation changes when Pedey returns and is able to play near FT. Nunez, IMO, is a better hitter than Moreland and Swihart and should play 3 out of 4 or 5 out of 6 games. The only way that can happen, barring injuries, is for Nunez to play more OF than JMart.

 

I'm curious how Cora will handle the situation. Swihart would be squeezed to just about zero chances to see action and might be traded to make room for Pedey rather than sending Lin or Holt to AAA.

 

[cp176]

We've agreed a couple of times before, so yes, I do believe you.

 

 

I'm okay with JMart in the OF, when it significantly improves the defense and accomplishes other goals, like keeping JMart happy, getting other players into the game (Moreland/Swihart). I think the situation changes when Pedey returns and is able to play near FT. Nunez, IMO, is a better hitter than Moreland and Swihart and should play 3 out of 4 or 5 out of 6 games. The only way that can happen, barring injuries, is for Nunez to play more OF than JMart.

 

I'm curious how Cora will handle the situation. Swihart would be squeezed to just about zero chances to see action and might be traded to make room for Pedey rather than sending Lin or Holt to AAA.

 

 

One thing that I think that it is safe to say is that using either JD or Nunez in the outfield won't make that outfield defense any better. I don't even want to guess what will become of Swihart. If he is not going to be used behind the plate at all, How is he ever gong to get enough looks to tell anybody anything about what he is capable of? The team looks good, the manager looks good, everything looks good and I get the idea of resting players but lineups like yesterday bother me I guess. Lin, Holt, either catcher, Moreland (although I'm ok with him I guess) really looks like too much offense sitting over there on the bench.

[moonslav59]

One thing that I think that it is safe to say is that using either JD or Nunez in the outfield won't make that outfield defense any better. I don't even want to guess what will become of Swihart. If he is not going to be used behind the plate at all, How is he ever gong to get enough looks to tell anybody anything about what he is capable of? The team looks good, the manager looks good, everything looks good and I get the idea of resting players but lineups like yesterday bother me I guess. Lin, Holt, either catcher, Moreland (although I'm ok with him I guess) really looks like too much offense sitting over there on the bench.

 

I read somewhere that this year's MLB schedule has more days off than before. I've never felt like young and healthy players need any more than 4-5 extra days off during a season. If a players is struggling or banged uo, then sure, give him more rest.

 

Having a strong bench like the Astros had last year makes a difference as well, and with Nunez tied up at 2B until Pedey comes back, our bench is not really good enough to play so often, in my opinion. Moreland has looked great, so I have no beef with playing him for a while, and that forced HRam to DH or the bench, so I can see why our OF'ers have been given rest, so JD and HRam can stay in the line-up, but I guess is I wanted to give my infielders a rest, I'd try to wait until Pedey comes back, and Nunez is squeezed for playing time.

 

I'm kind of surprised they have not played Swihart behind the plate or PH for our catchers very often, because we have a 3rd catcher on the roster, but again, I don't want to sound like I know more than Cora. I like this team's direction, focus, change in hitting approach and much more. I'm much more hopeful that this is the year than I was in March. It's not just about our record either. It goes way beyond that. I know we will hit some rough patches, and some here will bail (for a while), but I'm psyched about our chances.

[jacksonianmarch]

Season started March 27 and ends early October. They intentionally put an extra 5 or 6 days off into the schedule. I think MLB shared some of the NBA’s frustration at days of rest on prime time games, so they accommodated.

[cp176]

I read somewhere that this year's MLB schedule has more days off than before. I've never felt like young and healthy players need any more than 4-5 extra days off during a season. If a players is struggling or banged uo, then sure, give him more rest.

 

Having a strong bench like the Astros had last year makes a difference as well, and with Nunez tied up at 2B until Pedey comes back, our bench is not really good enough to play so often, in my opinion. Moreland has looked great, so I have no beef with playing him for a while, and that forced HRam to DH or the bench, so I can see why our OF'ers have been given rest, so JD and HRam can stay in the line-up, but I guess is I wanted to give my infielders a rest, I'd try to wait until Pedey comes back, and Nunez is squeezed for playing time.

 

I'm kind of surprised they have not played Swihart behind the plate or PH for our catchers very often, because we have a 3rd catcher on the roster, but again, I don't want to sound like I know more than Cora. I like this team's direction, focus, change in hitting approach and much more. I'm much more hopeful that this is the year than I was in March. It's not just about our record either. It goes way beyond that. I know we will hit some rough patches, and some here will bail (for a while), but I'm psyched about our chances.

 

I don't see any part of your comment as a criticism or sounding as though you might know more than anybody else. I like talking about these types of things and in this case I agree with you. I'm hoping for our team's sake that as we go along Cora fins a way to rest our guys without sitting 3-4-5 of them at the same time.

[moonslav59]

Season started March 27 and ends early October. They intentionally put an extra 5 or 6 days off into the schedule. I think MLB shared some of the NBA’s frustration at days of rest on prime time games, so they accommodated.

 

So, with 5 or 6 "extra" days off, it seems a manager might look at just keeping rest days off at the normal rate and you'd be gaining 5-6 rest days. That seems like enough, to me, but maybe Cora's major driving force is to use his bench and keep his bench ready and feeling like they are an important part of the team.

 

I hope he is not making a mistake based on the wild success of the Astros bench last year.

 

The Astros had Marwin Gonzalez give them 551 PAs off the bench with a .907 OPS, 2 catchers over a .760 OPS and a few other nice subs.

 

Again, I'm not complaining. I hope his plan pays off when we need it most. Last year, I suggested we try and rest sale more, so he won't have his usual late season decline, and maybe everyone can benefit from more time off.

[Emp9]

Season started March 27 and ends early October. They intentionally put an extra 5 or 6 days off into the schedule. I think MLB shared some of the NBA’s frustration at days of rest on prime time games, so they accommodated.

 

Yah! :rolleyes:Christmas World Series here we come!

[mvp 78]

Yah! :rolleyes:Christmas World Series here we come!

 

My Christmas lights do go up Nov. 1, so...

[Station 13]

My Christmas lights do go up Nov. 1, so...

 

When does it come off?

Edited April 23, 2018 by Station 13