Farrell

[oldtimer]

I started this thread and by and large have defended Farrell but have always believed upper management, including the owner, should have final say on the field manager. In this case, as with Francona, this was not exactly a firing but rather an unwillingness to give Farrell a new contract. Back in the day I also defended Francona regularly but in the end was fine with the decision to let him go. I honestly believe that, while some managers are better than others, almost no manager is indispensable. If DD and JH don't like what they see on the field or what they think they see in the clubhouse (or hear about), they are absolutely entitled to make a change.

 

JF did an okay job with the Sox but with his contract up for renewal, DD had to decide if continuing him was what he thought was best. A new manager may be better or worse, but a new manager will have the opportunity to rethink his coaching staff. I would hope some changes are in order there as well. Hitting malaise and base running issues come to mind. We will see if things will get better. No guarantees.

[mvp 78]

Hahahahahahaha!1!111!

 

It will be interesting to see if they say s*** about him now. I always assumed that Luchino was behind that stuff and he is gone.

 

I hope they say nothing. Those Globe articles were petty as f***. The way they treated Tito was despicable. The only person on here who liked that was Jacko because he was able to have a buddy stalk Tito to get pictures of him drinking.

[devildavid]

Was Chris Sale the only (or main) reason they failed in September? I don't believe so.

 

I think hitting preparation and approach is an issue for this team. Many smart posters have been saying it all along. I think new coaching could change that.

 

The Stros went from striking out all day long to becoming the stingiest. A lot of it has to do with coaching.

 

But I don't really see where the Sox need some drastic change in their hitting approach. I don't see that they even have a team hitting approach at all, but they prefer players who are selective and take a lot of pitches. This seems to be an organizational approach to the type of hitters they favor. But I don't see that every hitter follows the same approach and I don't think there needs to be one.

[mvp 78]

From Scott Lauber:

 

Astros bench coach Alex Cora will be mentioned as a Red Sox managerial candidate. Houston skipper A.J. Hinch has praised Cora for his "ability to connect with players." More from Hinch: "He's very sharp, sees the game in an extraordinarily deep way, has really connected well with players in our clubhouse and spent a lot of time developing relationships and being the bench coach liaison to the clubhouse that I asked him to be."

[mvp 78]

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/53669/red-sox-leadership-problems-go-far-beyond-john-farrell

BOSTON -- Shut down Twitter. Silence the sports-talk airwaves.

 

John Farrell is gone.

 

That's right, New England. The Boston Red Sox finally heard you. It took longer than you would have liked, but owner John Henry, chairman Tom Werner, president/CEO Sam Kennedy and president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski came around. They axed Farrell on Wednesday morning, two days after he managed the Sox to a second consecutive first-round playoff knockout.

 

Drink a toast, all you champions of the #FireFarrell movement. Surely this is cause for rejoicing.

 

It also doesn't solve anything.

 

This isn't to say Farrell was unjustly fired. When a team with a payroll nearing $200 million wins 93 games and a division title in back-to-back years only to upchuck on itself in the postseason, change often comes. The manager is the easiest fall guy. It's an occupational hazard.

 

The Red Sox also endured more drama this season than an episode of "This Is Us." From Dustin Pedroia throwing teammates under the bus in a beanball war with the Baltimore Orioles, to David Price humiliating broadcaster Dennis Eckersley on the team plane, to the trainer who used a smart watch to relay stolen signs to players, it all happened on Farrell's watch.

 

But pinning it all on Farrell and pretending things will be different with another manager is as short-sighted as it is foolish. The problem runs much deeper than that. It goes to a clubhouse run by two defiant veterans, the inability of a bunch of young players to mature into team leaders and the overall makeup of a team that often seemed to be joylessly slogging back to the top of the American League East.

 

It was assumed Pedroia would take the torch from retired David Ortiz and lead the Red Sox into the post-Papi era. But the veteran second baseman has never been comfortable in that role. This season, he proved he's ill-suited for it, too.

 

In April, Orioles star Manny Machado slid hard into Pedroia, causing him to reinjure his surgically repaired knee. During the next few days, Red Sox pitchers failed in multiple attempts at retaliation. When reliever Matt Barnes threw behind Machado's head, Pedroia yelled out to Machado, "It's not me, it's them."

 

With that, the self-proclaimed “Laser Show” morphed into Fredo Corleone, effectively taking sides against the family.

 

Pedroia ended a postgame interview in May by saying, "Can I go home now?" He didn't do anything to deter Price from ambushing Eckersley in June. And it was only after details of that ugly incident became public that Pedroia stood at his locker and said, "People say from the outside we don't have a leader. I'm standing right here."

 

 

Dustin Pedroia was the obvious candidate to take over David Ortiz's leadership role in Boston's clubhouse, but it didn't work out that way this season. Actually, it was Price who stepped into the leadership void. But the $217 million lefty's idea of unifying the team was to attack the media. Price became the Red Sox's resident ombudsman, taking exception to even the most innocuous criticism. He made a scene by shouting at a reporter after a June game in New York and blasted Eckersley for merely pointing out that lefty Eduardo Rodriguez struggled in a minor-league rehab start.

 

In both instances, Price was unapologetic for behavior that could best be labeled unprofessional. His teammates lapped it up, though. And while Price might have succeeding in bringing players together in an us-against-the-world sort of way, a culture of unnecessary negativity seemed to emanate from the clubhouse.

 

Meanwhile, neither Mookie Betts nor Xander Bogaerts -- the Red Sox's brightest young stars and possible future franchise cornerstones -- developed into leaders. Maybe it was because both had less successful seasons than in 2016. Maybe it's merely too soon to expect a couple of 25-year-olds to be a team's emotional compass. Or maybe it's just not in their DNA.

 

The New York Yankees and Houston Astros reached the postseason because of a similar nucleus of young players. But both teams also prioritized bringing in high-character, veteran position players to act as steady hands during losing streaks, police the clubhouse whenever necessary and help their manager maintain a pulse of the team.

 

Matt Holliday and Todd Frazier were added to a Yankees roster that included Chase Headley and Brett Gardner. They serve as good examples for Aaron Judge, Gary Sanchez, Greg Bird and the rest of the Baby Bombers. Last winter, the Astros signed free agents Carlos Beltran and Josh Reddick and traded for Brian McCann, each of whom has positively influenced young stars Carlos Correa, Alex Bregman and George Springer and make life infinitely easier for manager A.J. Hinch.

 

"A guy like Beltran, being the 40-something that is he in the clubhouse, will keep things very even-keeled, will keep things in perspective," Hinch said. "Beltran is very key because of his presence and because of the influence he has on our players. The attention to detail, the room-temperature gauge is very important in the clubhouse."

 

The Red Sox lack that dynamic. First baseman Mitch Moreland and reserve outfielder Chris Young tried to play that role to varying degrees, but considering how impressionable the Red Sox's core remains, there wasn't nearly enough of a positive veteran presence.

 

Farrell bears some blame for not being able to bring out that quality in enough players. But he also didn't put the roster together. That was on Dombrowski, and it will be Dombrowski's job to provide the next manager – Jason Varitek? Alex Cora? Brad Ausmus? – with a better clubhouse mix.

 

Meanwhile, live it up, Farrell haters. Your favorite pinata has been knocked down.

 

Now, maybe the Red Sox can address their real problems.

 

While there are a couple of good points, there is a lot of interesting circle the wagons stuff here. It's clear that Farrell was well like by the media. I've heard more complaints from the media about people wanting Farrell fired than actual fan complaints about wanting Farrell gone. The "well they didn't have the right veterans" stuff is kind of amusing to me. (If they had Frazier instead of Devers, the Sox may have not even made the playoffs.) The managers should always be in charge of the clubhouse. If your players are not acting the way you want them to, tell them to act differently. If Farrell cared about the Price or Pedey situations, he would have spoken to them and they would have change their tune. To me, it seems like he didn't care about that stuff for better or worse.

 

This article is basically "the manager doesn't really matter, but he was my buddy so now I'm sad."

[Thunder]

Merry Christmas!

[mvp 78]

@MaureenaMullen

 

DD on when he made the decision: not a snap decision, not because we lost in ALDS

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

DD: 'You're always thinking about how to get better in every facet.' Tues AM, discussed mgr decision w/baseball staff, then informed owners.

[mvp 78]

@EvanDrellich

 

Dombrowski got baseball staff together on Tuesday on topic of Farrell. “Basically after that made the decision myself, called John Henry"

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

 

Dombrowski said that he's going to keep factors in decision to himself. Cites a belief that organization is ready for change.

 

Looks like they won't be dragging him in the media.

[devildavid]

Was Chris Sale the only (or main) reason they failed in September? I don't believe so.

 

I think hitting preparation and approach is an issue for this team. Many smart posters have been saying it all along. I think new coaching could change that.

 

The Stros went from striking out all day long to becoming the stingiest. A lot of it has to do with coaching.

 

The Astros also eliminated some high strikeout hitters from their lineup: Carlos Gomez, Jason Castro, Colby Rasmus. And Evan Gattis' playing time was greatly reduced. That helps too.

[mvp 78]

@jcmccaffrey

 

Dombrowski says he tapped front office staff but not players for input in firing Farrell

[Hitch]

@iamjoonlee

 

A LOT of the players also love Chili Davis. Already has a strong rapport with young stars on the team. Would suspect he gets a long look.

 

Everyone talks about Farrell needing to go, nobody mentions Chili. This would be the guy getting the sack for me. Almost all the hitters regressed this year. What exactly was he doing with them? Maybe Pedroia was too injured to work out the kinks in the swings for the guys this year.

[Elktonnick]

@alexspeier

 

Dombrowski said that he's going to keep factors in decision to himself. Cites a belief that organization is ready for change.

 

Looks like they won't be dragging him in the media.

 

 

WOW* I never thought they would pull the trigger.* I thought despite all his shortcomings the ALE title would have saved his job.* I suspect that the cumulative effect of the Price fiasco, public and Boston sports media calling for his scalp and the general lackluster performance of this club down the stretch caused DD to pull the plug.

 

In retrospect, I don't think Farrell was ever DD's man.* I suspect that DD would have pulled the plug sooner if Farrell's health scare hadn't intervened.* In any case, DD now has no excuses, if the 2018 Sox don't reignite the fan base, win back the sports media and make it beyond the first round of the playoffs he will be hitting the bricks this time next year.

[Elktonnick]

Everyone talks about Farrell needing to go, nobody mentions Chili. This would be the guy getting the sack for me. Almost all the hitters regressed this year. What exactly was he doing with them? Maybe Pedroia was too injured to work out the kinks in the swings for the guys this year.

 

I certainly want a new hitting coach.

[mvp 78]

WOW* I never thought they would pull the trigger.* I thought despite all his shortcomings the ALE title would have saved his job.* I suspect that the cumulative effect of the Price fiasco, public and Boston sports media calling for his scalp and the general lackluster performance of this club down the stretch caused DD to pull the plug.

 

In retrospect, I don't think Farrell was ever DD's man.* I suspect that DD would have pulled the plug sooner if Farrell's health scare hadn't intervened.* In any case, DD now has no excuses, if the 2018 Sox don't reignite the fan base, win back the sports media and make it beyond the first round of the playoffs he will be hitting the bricks this time next year.

 

To me, the media was carrying Farrell's water all season. They spent more time ranting about fans who dared speak ill of the manager.

[mvp 78]

Everyone talks about Farrell needing to go, nobody mentions Chili. This would be the guy getting the sack for me. Almost all the hitters regressed this year. What exactly was he doing with them? Maybe Pedroia was too injured to work out the kinks in the swings for the guys this year.

 

The whole coaching staff will be gone. That's part in parcel with changing managers to me.

[Hitch]

The whole coaching staff will be gone. That's part in parcel with changing managers to me.

 

Yeah I guess, and would hope! I feel pretty strongly that Chili has a huge say in our struggles this year. He's done absolutely nothing to coach these guys out of their slumps.

 

A fresh start all round is a good thing. The players need it more than anything else.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, the media was carrying Farrell's water all season.

 

I assume you're excluding the curly haired fellow.

[SoxnCycles]

I assume you're excluding the curly haired fellow.

 

And a good portion of sports talk radio.

[mvp 78]

I assume you're excluding the curly haired fellow.

 

In my reality, he was thrown into the sarlac pit years ago. He's being slowly digested over the next 1,000 years.

[mvp 78]

And a good portion of sports talk radio.

 

I don't, can't and won't listen to that garbage. Nothing good can come from turning WEEI on.

[mvp 78]

@MaureenaMullen

 

DD: "I don't think anybody from the system is a candidate" (so no varitek) "need some exp managing or being on a ML coaching staff...

[Spudboy]

Tomasi had this to say:http://www.weei.com/articles/column/tomase-red-sox-manager-john-farrell-sacrificed-because-david-price-was-terrible

[mvp 78]

Tomasi had this to say:http://www.weei.com/articles/column/tomase-red-sox-manager-john-farrell-sacrificed-because-david-price-was-terrible

 

The pride of Mansfield, John Tomase.

 

Thumbs way down for that turd.

[BstHcpr]

Price was the only pitcher who actually showed up in the series, and basically made a start in Game 3.

[Slasher9]

@craigcalcaterra

 

It's been like an hour and no one from the Sox front office has leaked bad info about Farrell. It truly is a new era in Boston.

 

hahaha. i have been thinking this all morning. they usually smear the s*** out of the outgoing player/manager/whomever. maybe just maybe that was an LL thing?

[Slasher9]

Hahahahahahaha!1!111!

 

It will be interesting to see if they say s*** about him now. I always assumed that Luchino was behind that stuff and he is gone.

 

jinx!

[mvp 78]

hahaha. i have been thinking this all morning. they usually smear the s*** out of the outgoing player/manager/whomever. maybe just maybe that was an LL thing?

 

LL is too busy trying to fleece RI out of millions and millions of dollars.

[sk7326]

No issue with Farrell being gone. Now, most of the managers are in the middle ... fairly low impact, fit dependent. Farrell was in that middle. Dombrowski's last hire was legitimately bad - so that bears watching.