A Realistic View at 2017 Part II

[Larry Cook]

I feel this is what our offense will look like for the rest of the year unless mookie gets hot.

 

Hitting is contagious and right now our lineup can not catch anything.

[moonslav59]

Good read...\\

 

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/7/14/15972080/pablo-sandoval-red-sox-designated-for-assignment

[oldtimer]

Good read...\\

 

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/7/14/15972080/pablo-sandoval-red-sox-designated-for-assignment

 

It would be easier to take had Pablo had been our only big miss in the period.

[oldtimer]

I feel this is what our offense will look like for the rest of the year unless mookie gets hot.

 

Hitting is contagious and right now our lineup can not catch anything.

 

Mookie is struggling right now and isn't providing much in the way of offense and neither is Bogey.

[moonslav59]

It would be easier to take had Pablo had been our only big miss in the period.

 

Agreed, and with a depleted rotation, we really needed everyone to hit to expectations or better. Instead, many floundered.

 

Had HRam, Napoli and Bogey hit like they did the following year, Ben might still be here.

[Larry Cook]

I keep thinking mookie is due to break out at some point real soon.

[moonslav59]

Mookie is struggling right now and isn't providing much in the way of offense and neither is Bogey.

 

Maybe a big shake-up might work...

 

1) Bogey

2) Pedey

3) JBJ

4) HRam

5) Betts

6) Beni-Young

7) Moreland-Travis

8) Lin-Marrero

9) Leon-Vaz

 

[Larry Cook]

I was thinking:

 

1.) betts

2.) pedroia

3.) benintendi

4.) Hanley

5.) Bradley

6.) Moreland

7.) bogey

8.) Vazquez

9.) marrero/Lin

[Station 13]

I keep thinking mookie is due to break out at some point real soon.

 

Lin, Pedroia, Benni, JBJ, Xander, Betts, Hanley, Moreland, Leon

 

Give pitchers a real test of guys who do not give away ABs for the first 6 batters. Mookie is hurting them lately. Could use some time on the bench for a day. Or stick him lower until he get back on track.

[Jasonbay44]

Despite his subpar numbers thus far, Mookie is still the teams best player. There is no reason whatsoever he should ever be outside the top 4 hitters. Even when he's struggling he's still creating runs with his speed and high IQ base running. For a team that struggles to score they need him getting as many opportunities to get on base as possible.

[oldtimer]

I was thinking:

 

1.) betts

2.) pedroia

3.) benintendi

4.) Hanley

5.) Bradley

6.) Moreland

7.) bogey

8.) Vazquez

9.) marrero/Lin

 

I was thinking an even more drastic change is in order until some guys show signs of coming out of their slumps.

 

1) Lin

2) Pedey

3) Beni

4) JBJ

5) Hanley

6) Betts

7) Bogey

8) Moreland/Travis

9) Leon/Vazquez

 

Right now neither Marerro or Young are enough of a threat at the plate to consider starting them. We have Holt, Devers and Brentz in the minors or DL. Could any give us a spark?

[moonslav59]

These all look like improvements, but to me, the biggie is moving Moreland off the 4 slot.

[Kimmi]

You don't get to be in "supreme" athletic shape by being a "sloth."

 

HRam is a beast. He's been battling an injury and still doing well.

 

He's come on strong recently.

 

Moreland has been slumping badly. Beni has looked like a great platoon hitter. I'd be fine with JBJ at clean-up and HRam 5th, but I think it's time to end the Moreland as clean-up, at least for now. He did a great job for us over the first have, and he's battling an injury as well, but it time to make some slight changes to the line-up.

 

I agree about Hanley. Personally, I love the guy. As with Pablo, I think a lot of the criticism about his character is unfair and unwarranted.

 

Right now, the player that I am most frustrated with is Mookie. He is looking really bad at the plate, if you ask me.

[Kimmi]

HanRam has been somewhat pedestrian but he doesn't suck. All he needs is one good month for his numbers to skyrocket. We know what he's capable of.

 

HanRam's not the problem just because he rubs some the wrong way for whatever reason. I think if you throw in another .280-.300 hitter in the lineup, this offense will be just fine (preferably at 3B who can play average to above average defense).

 

S5, what interview are you talking about? The on-field interview after the game? If so, I didn't find anything he said to be anything but what a normal teammate would say.

 

I didn't find anything wrong with the interview either. I think some of the problem is that Hanley doesn't fully understand the question being asked due to language barriers, so he gives a 'textbook' answer. I've seen Ortiz and other foreign players do the same.

[moonslav59]

I agree about Hanley. Personally, I love the guy. As with Pablo, I think a lot of the criticism about his character is unfair and unwarranted.

 

Right now, the player that I am most frustrated with is Mookie. He is looking really bad at the plate, if you ask me.

 

Mookie usually comes alive as summer wears on. I'm not sure what up with him.

 

Maybe a change of line-up slot might help.

[Bellhorn04]

I agree about Hanley. Personally, I love the guy. As with Pablo, I think a lot of the criticism about his character is unfair and unwarranted.

 

Right now, the player that I am most frustrated with is Mookie. He is looking really bad at the plate, if you ask me.

 

I'm starting to think bosoxmal might be onto something with Mookie's pre-swing bat waving being counterproductive.

[oldtimer]

I agree about Hanley. Personally, I love the guy. As with Pablo, I think a lot of the criticism about his character is unfair and unwarranted.

 

Right now, the player that I am most frustrated with is Mookie. He is looking really bad at the plate, if you ask me.

 

I look at guys hitting as being a combination of Plate Approach, Swing Mechanics, Hand-Eye Coordination, Bat Speed and Raw Power. Not all of those are mutually excllusive but are convenient buckets to evaluated players.

 

Right now I see Mookie as having a PA that has him taking way too many good pitches and his SM has gotten him looping the bat and popping up. I think he has good H-E coordination, has excellent BS but has limited RP which doesn't work out well for him when he hits to center field. He needs to work on the first 2 categories.

 

Bogey"s PA also has him taking too many pitches and his SM doesn't allow him to generate power. his H-E and BS are okay and his RP may be better than his SM allow.

 

Moreland's PA and SM seem okay but his H-E and BS aren't so good. Many fouls go toward the left side. He has some power but doesn't show it often since his solid contact is limited.

 

Hanley's PA is also bad in that he takes good and swings at bad. He also swings for the fences. His SM seem okay. His H-E is just so soand he has decent BS and he has the RP aspect

 

Pedey's PA varies, and he knows his strike zone. He will go to right when down in the count. He has excellent swing mechanics, although he swings extremely hard. His H-E is very good and he still has BS but his RP is minimal.

 

I love Beni's approarch and also think Lin is excellent with JBJ better since he has flattend his swing. The rest are not so good.

 

I play ball 3 days a week and watch guys at all levels and like to evaluate hitting in general.

[Kimmi]

I look at guys hitting as being a combination of Plate Approach, Swing Mechanics, Hand-Eye Coordination, Bat Speed and Raw Power. Not all of those are mutually excllusive but are convenient buckets to evaluated players.

 

Right now I see Mookie as having a PA that has him taking way too many good pitches and his SM has gotten him looping the bat and popping up. I think he has good H-E coordination, has excellent BS but has limited RP which doesn't work out well for him when he hits to center field. He needs to work on the first 2 categories.

 

Bogey"s PA also has him taking too many pitches and his SM doesn't allow him to generate power. his H-E and BS are okay and his RP may be better than his SM allow.

 

Moreland's PA and SM seem okay but his H-E and BS aren't so good. Many fouls go toward the left side. He has some power but doesn't show it often since his solid contact is limited.

 

Hanley's PA is also bad in that he takes good and swings at bad. He also swings for the fences. His SM seem okay. His H-E is just so soand he has decent BS and he has the RP aspect

 

Pedey's PA varies, and he knows his strike zone. He will go to right when down in the count. He has excellent swing mechanics, although he swings extremely hard. His H-E is very good and he still has BS but his RP is minimal.

 

I love Beni's approarch and also think Lin is excellent with JBJ better since he has flattend his swing. The rest are not so good.

 

I play ball 3 days a week and watch guys at all levels and like to evaluate hitting in general.

 

Good analysis Oldtimer. Not being a batting coach, I can't really comment on the specifics like you have. I just have my opinions of when someone looks bad at the plate, and right now, Mookie looks bad.

 

I do agree that our batters have a tendency to take good pitches right down the middle of the plate too often. But then, many of them are very good 2 strike hitters and that has long been their approach.

[moonslav59]

I look at guys hitting as being a combination of Plate Approach, Swing Mechanics, Hand-Eye Coordination, Bat Speed and Raw Power. Not all of those are mutually excllusive but are convenient buckets to evaluated players.

 

Right now I see Mookie as having a PA that has him taking way too many good pitches and his SM has gotten him looping the bat and popping up. I think he has good H-E coordination, has excellent BS but has limited RP which doesn't work out well for him when he hits to center field. He needs to work on the first 2 categories.

 

Bogey"s PA also has him taking too many pitches and his SM doesn't allow him to generate power. his H-E and BS are okay and his RP may be better than his SM allow.

 

Moreland's PA and SM seem okay but his H-E and BS aren't so good. Many fouls go toward the left side. He has some power but doesn't show it often since his solid contact is limited.

 

Hanley's PA is also bad in that he takes good and swings at bad. He also swings for the fences. His SM seem okay. His H-E is just so soand he has decent BS and he has the RP aspect

 

Pedey's PA varies, and he knows his strike zone. He will go to right when down in the count. He has excellent swing mechanics, although he swings extremely hard. His H-E is very good and he still has BS but his RP is minimal.

 

I love Beni's approarch and also think Lin is excellent with JBJ better since he has flattend his swing. The rest are not so good.

 

I play ball 3 days a week and watch guys at all levels and like to evaluate hitting in general.

 

Sometimes, really good hitters (even ones that are in the midst of a hot streak) look really awful for one or two ABs here and there.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong in your analysis, but I'm not sure we can read too much into a few poor PAs or approaches.

 

You've been ripping HRam a lot recently, and the guy has been scorching the ball. I've seen him make a lot of loud outs the past few weeks, and he's over .900 the last month. Yeah, he made a couple outs when we needed hits, and he "swings for the fences" almost very time he swings, but that's been his approach his whole career, and he's had a mighty fine career.

 

Even in our tough loss yesterday, we had many chances. We got those chances by several players having very good PAs. We just never strung enough together.

 

This team has struggled to keep the hitting momentum going. To me, they have by and large, under performed, at least to my expectations. It would be nice to add a big bat to the line-up, but I just don't see any good fit out there.

 

I don't want us to break the bank or empty the farm for a 3Bman, because I believe in Devers.

 

I doubt we trade Moreland and then go after an Alonso type.

 

I don't see any available catchers that would clearly be an upgrade over what we got.

 

We are not trading for an OF'er, SS or 2Bman.

 

We are not going to bench or platoon HRam.

 

It's 3B or 1B or maybe catcher. I just don't see anything out there that I say, "We need him to have a chance."

 

 

[Larry Cook]

I look at guys hitting as being a combination of Plate Approach, Swing Mechanics, Hand-Eye Coordination, Bat Speed and Raw Power. Not all of those are mutually excllusive but are convenient buckets to evaluated players.

 

Right now I see Mookie as having a PA that has him taking way too many good pitches and his SM has gotten him looping the bat and popping up. I think he has good H-E coordination, has excellent BS but has limited RP which doesn't work out well for him when he hits to center field. He needs to work on the first 2 categories.

 

Bogey"s PA also has him taking too many pitches and his SM doesn't allow him to generate power. his H-E and BS are okay and his RP may be better than his SM allow.

 

Moreland's PA and SM seem okay but his H-E and BS aren't so good. Many fouls go toward the left side. He has some power but doesn't show it often since his solid contact is limited.

 

Hanley's PA is also bad in that he takes good and swings at bad. He also swings for the fences. His SM seem okay. His H-E is just so soand he has decent BS and he has the RP aspect

 

Pedey's PA varies, and he knows his strike zone. He will go to right when down in the count. He has excellent swing mechanics, although he swings extremely hard. His H-E is very good and he still has BS but his RP is minimal.

 

I love Beni's approarch and also think Lin is excellent with JBJ better since he has flattend his swing. The rest are not so good.

 

I play ball 3 days a week and watch guys at all levels and like to evaluate hitting in general.

 

Excellent analysis! Best I have seen posted.

[OH FOY]

Situational hitting stinks on this team. Want to be heroes, instead of giving themselves up, to help the team. That's on the Players. You don't take Pitches if it's there to move a Runner over. You box yourself in on 2 Strikes. Pitchers aren't stupid. You have to have plan before you go to the plate. Outs win games, in this sport.

I'm not counting Lin in this. Like that kid. Seems only one with a plan each at bat.

Edited July 16, 2017 by OH FOY!

[sk7326]

Situational hitting stinks on this team. Want to be heroes, instead of giving themselves up, to help the team. That's on the Players. You don't take Pitches if it's there to move a Runner over. You box yourself in on 2 Strikes. Pitchers aren't stupid. You have to have plan before you go to the plate. Outs win games, in this sport.

 

They don't - they just make outs ... outs are baseball's clock after all.

 

Just an ebb and flow - nothing a ball finding a hole can't fix.

[oldtimer]

Sometimes, really good hitters (even ones that are in the midst of a hot streak) look really awful for one or two ABs here and there.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong in your analysis, but I'm not sure we can read too much into a few poor PAs or approaches.

 

You've been ripping HRam a lot recently, and the guy has been scorching the ball. I've seen him make a lot of loud outs the past few weeks, and he's over .900 the last month. Yeah, he made a couple outs when we needed hits, and he "swings for the fences" almost very time he swings, but that's been his approach his whole career, and he's had a mighty fine career.

 

Even in our tough loss yesterday, we had many chances. We got those chances by several players having very good PAs. We just never strung enough together.

 

This team has struggled to keep the hitting momentum going. To me, they have by and large, under performed, at least to my expectations. It would be nice to add a big bat to the line-up, but I just don't see any good fit out there.

 

I don't want us to break the bank or empty the farm for a 3Bman, because I believe in Devers.

 

I doubt we trade Moreland and then go after an Alonso type.

 

I don't see any available catchers that would clearly be an upgrade over what we got.

 

We are not trading for an OF'er, SS or 2Bman.

 

We are not going to bench or platoon HRam.

 

It's 3B or 1B or maybe catcher. I just don't see anything out there that I say, "We need him to have a chance."

 

 

 

I think we are pretty much in agreement and also with what Kimmi said elsewhere. We pretty much need to go with the players we have with the possible exception of adding another relief arm.

 

There is Devers waiting in the wings who may help us soon. There are also batting order changes that might help in two ways. !) string together more locked in hitters, 2) shake some guys up a little and get them to realize that they need to do better. Key guys for us who are underperforming at Betts, Bogey and Moreland.

 

Hope we can get enough guys to play well today to win at least one of the double header.

[SoxHop]

I think anyone sitting at home thinking players should be swinging at better pitches or working the count better hasn't faced top level mid 90's pitchers with ungodly junk with scouting reports.

 

How long is that fraction of a second you have to identify if it's a good pitch or not?

 

If you mandate a player to be aggressive and swing more, you might start seeing more Pablo/Guerro type at bats. Without the hits.

[oldtimer]

I think anyone sitting at home thinking players should be swinging at better pitches or working the count better hasn't faced top level mid 90's pitchers with ungodly junk with scouting reports.

 

How long is that fraction of a second you have to identify if it's a good pitch or not?

 

If you mandate a player to be aggressive and swing more, you might start seeing more Pablo/Guerro type at bats. Without the hits.

 

Mandating a hitter to take the first pitch or two is equally stupid. Too many fastballs are being thrown over the plate on the first pitch without penalty. A hitter facing an 0-2 count is at a terrible disadvantage or even a 2 and 2 count. Give the hitters the instuctions to be aggressive once in a while to make the pitcher be careful. These hitters face 90mph heat nearly every time at bat. Last night Kimbrel threw a first pitch fastball down the middle and it was hit out.

[Kimmi]

I think anyone sitting at home thinking players should be swinging at better pitches or working the count better hasn't faced top level mid 90's pitchers with ungodly junk with scouting reports.

 

How long is that fraction of a second you have to identify if it's a good pitch or not?

 

If you mandate a player to be aggressive and swing more, you might start seeing more Pablo/Guerro type at bats. Without the hits.

 

That's not what is being suggested. Our hitters often take the first pitch regardless of what the pitch is - that is their approach. I think being patient and working the count is a very good approach overall, but I also think there are times when the batter should be looking for a fastball in the middle of the plate on the first pitch and be ready to swing.

[Behindenemylines]

That's not what is being suggested. Our hitters often take the first pitch regardless of what the pitch is - that is their approach. I think being patient and working the count is a very good approach overall, but I also think there are times when the batter should be looking for a fastball in the middle of the plate on the first pitch and be ready to swing.

 

Hitters can be too predictable with their approach. Need to mix it up. Can't just take every first pitch. Most of the Sox hitters that fall behind 0 -2 have no chance. Boggy has had some success this year with two strikes, but most of the Sox not so much.

[oldtimer]

Very good second game for the Sox, being able to take the second game and earn a spit, leaving the Yankees in the same position as when they came in.

 

Price had an excellent game and had the velocity and pitched an 8 inning shutout. Kimbrel came in for the save, and while he made me nervous, he got the job done.

 

Mookie broke out tonight against a very good pitcher in Tanaka. We needed his hitting and he delivered with 3. Pedroia was also a tough out and drove in a run.

 

JBJ showed just how valuable he can be getting an extra base hit and also making a great catch off of Judge to save 2 runs. A lot of outfielders wouldn't have made that play.

 

Tanaka stays low and his ball breaks in an down to lefties. We didn't get much out of our lefties but another game they will fare better. Bogaerts got a rest tonight so that was good.

 

The BP didn't see a lot of use after a very tiring couple of days and we have Price to thank for that.

 

The Angels beat the Rays so our position stays solid.

 

Now DD, keep thinking about how to handle 3rd base as none of our current options is really strong there and try to come up with another BP arm as two of our guys went onto the DL this series. Hope neither is serious, but you never know about these things.

 

One last point that I noticed and think is occurring, Moreland seems to be pulling off balls to some extent. He got a hit to left on one of those, but he seemed better when he strode and swung ahead. I will watch him again to see if it happens regularly or was just a couple of at bats. Trying to see why he has been in a slump.

 

Tonight I can go to bed happy with the result.

[sk7326]

That's not what is being suggested. Our hitters often take the first pitch regardless of what the pitch is - that is their approach. I think being patient and working the count is a very good approach overall, but I also think there are times when the batter should be looking for a fastball in the middle of the plate on the first pitch and be ready to swing.

 

The trick is that selective aggression - it's not take/not take ... it's recognizing what a good pitch is - sometimes the hitters have been too careful.

[SoxnCycles]

One last point that I noticed and think is occurring, Moreland seems to be pulling off balls to some extent. He got a hit to left on one of those, but he seemed better when he strode and swung ahead. I will watch him again to see if it happens regularly or was just a couple of at bats. Trying to see why he has been in a slump.

 

Tonight I can go to bed happy with the result.

 

I think Moreland's broken toe might be throwing his swing off.