2017 Rotation Discussion

[Bellhorn04]

Just don't make the other sport football LOL

[a700hitter]

Just don't make the other sport football LOL

Yaz was a sports legend on Long Island. He was the best basketball player in Suffolk County history at that time as well as the best baseball player. One day someone told his Dad that Carl was at football tryouts. His father drove to the field and took him off the field telling him that an injury could ruin his baseball career.

[S5Dewey]

Just don't make the other sport football LOL

 

Speaking of football injuries and concussions in particular...

 

I'm now hearing that a couple of high schools in New Jersey have installed concussion sensors in each player's helmet that will relay information to someone on the sidelines with a laptop. When a player's total concussion "number" reaches a certain predetermined point that player comes out of the game and isn't allowed to come back in. It's expensive as all Hell and still in the Beta stage, but at least technology is moving in that direction.

[cp176]

You truly are a man after my own heart. First of all, both the Principal's Assn in this state and American Legion baseball established pitch limits for pitchers starting in 2017 in an effort to curb pitching injuries. IMO the PA took action after a player threw 162 pitches in a State Championship game four days after throwing 136 pitches in the District Championship game. It was a change that needed to be made.

 

But to your point in your post here, I'm seeing more and more research being done about the affects of a player focusing on one sport rather than playing a different sport each season and there's pretty compelling evidence that those who focus on one sport have a higher injury incidence than those who diversify more.

 

What do you think SS, would this be a good forum and time as well for me to say that none of my observations about the benefits mentally and physically of being a multi-sport athlete are based on any type of statistical data whatsoever? Just 44 years of coaching some of which included a few of the best athletes to come out of Maine. LOL - Just a joke that probably wasn't necessary.

[S5Dewey]

What do you think SS, would this be a good forum and time as well for me to say that none of my observations about the benefits mentally and physically of being a multi-sport athlete are based on any type of statistical data whatsoever? Just 44 years of coaching some of which included a few of the best athletes to come out of Maine. LOL - Just a joke that probably wasn't necessary.

 

Meh. It would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

[Spudboy]

Yaz was a sports legend on Long Island. He was the best basketball player in Suffolk County history at that time as well as the best baseball player. One day someone told his Dad that Carl was at football tryouts. His father drove to the field and took him off the field telling him that an injury could ruin his baseball career.

 

Nah. That's ********. He just wanted Yaz to be available to harvest potatoes!

[Spudboy]

Meh. It would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

By far the majority of good athletes in my high school were multi-sport stars.

 

They were usually the best player in at least one of three sports.

[Maxbialystock]

Meh. It would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

Hell, I am deaf enough to require hearing aids in both ears. A lot of charge 6 one day in June 1967. But my eyes ain't deef.

[bowman]

Groome out for the year with some type of forearm injury.

[Larry Cook]

Have the oriole's stopped scoring yet?

 

How sad is it to lose by a football score,

[Bellhorn04]

Have the oriole's stopped scoring yet?

 

How sad is it to lose by a football score,

 

Yes Eeyore.

[Larry Cook]

Yes Eeyore.

 

Man! That game was uglier than a Steinbrenner family reunion on Halloween!

[Kimmi]

All I'm saying is that there are reasons for pitch counts and yes they are a combination of health concerns and monetary concerns.

 

Billy Martin had a lot to do with this, I think, when in 1980 he took a good young pitching rotation and burnt them all to the ground.

 

Taking pitchers out of the game also has a lot to do with the data these days. Playing the matchups for one, but also realizing that a reliever will often be more effective than a starter going through an order for the 3rd time.

[Larry Cook]

Has Baltimore stopped scoring yet today? Feels like deja vu?

[Kimmi]

On the topic of Fister and small sample sizes:

 

1. Apparently, they tweaked his mechanics, which has led to him pitching very well. If that truly is the case for the turnaround, then by all means, we have reason to be optimistic going forward. Whenever there is a known physical reason for decline or improvement, that has to be taken into account differently than a random short term improvement or decline. Either way, it's still too small a sample to know for sure.

 

2. What a player has done the last month probably is a better indication of how he'll do next game than what he did in April. It may even be a better indication than his cumulative stats for the year. That said, projections trump in season performance to date, at any point in the season, in terms of being a better predictor of what will happen going forward. Keep in mind that updated projections to incorporate season to date performance.

 

3. I am good with starting Fister and leaving Price on the DL for now. Ride the hot hand as long as we can. (Did I just say that?) Perhaps he and Sale can do the piggyback thing against the Tribe in the playoffs.

 

4. I do think that the idea of a 'hot hand' for a pitcher is a little different than it is for a hitter.

[jacksonianmarch]

Plus or minus. We have seen pitchers have a hot month with a stinker mixed in. It's just about what their stuff is like that day. Regardless, I think Fister goes to long man in the playoffs or is left off altogether. Price may come back as a pen arm per Farrell, although I think he has another setback and sees the business end of a knife. I think your 4 for the playoffs is Sale, Pom, Porcello and ERod.

[Bellhorn04]

On the topic of Fister and small sample sizes:

 

1. Apparently, they tweaked his mechanics, which has led to him pitching very well. If that truly is the case for the turnaround, then by all means, we have reason to be optimistic going forward. Whenever there is a known physical reason for decline or improvement, that has to be taken into account differently than a random short term improvement or decline. Either way, it's still too small a sample to know for sure.

 

With all the criticism of our coaching this year, it seems like it's been pretty good in the pitching area.

[Bellhorn04]

There's a whole month left to evaluate Fister.

[oldtimer]

Sale was put into tough situations in the first couple of innings and looked like he began to tire. JF left him in a little long for my liking as he was spent and we had a rested BP. We are going to need a rested Sale as we move on and he is accumulating a lot of innings.

[illinoisredsox]

Reason to be concerned about Sale:

 

Historically, he wears down as the season progresses. September is by far his worst month careerwise. Fewest IP, highest ERA (by more than half a run), highest WHIP (by .18), only month with a losing record (9-15). August is his second worst month in those regards.

 

Perhaps those who were complaining when Farrell tried to get the rotation extra days rest here and there back in July and early August should maybe consider JF knew what he was trying to do. (Okay, that's probably asking too much). I'm pretty sure he had these types of stats available when all they saw was his last start.

[Kimmi]

Reason to be concerned about Sale:

 

Historically, he wears down as the season progresses. September is by far his worst month careerwise. Fewest IP, highest ERA (by more than half a run), highest WHIP (by .18), only month with a losing record (9-15). August is his second worst month in those regards.

 

Perhaps those who were complaining when Farrell tried to get the rotation extra days rest here and there back in July and early August should maybe consider JF knew what he was trying to do. (Okay, that's probably asking too much). I'm pretty sure he had these types of stats available when all they saw was his last start.

 

Very good point about Farrell trying to get Sale an extra day of rest here and there earlier in the season. We have a few off days coming up this month, so maybe the extra day between starts will do Sale a bit of good.

 

The word on Price has been very encouraging. Maybe he can get back and make a few starts to give Sale some more days off.

[moonslav59]

Reason to be concerned about Sale:

 

Historically, he wears down as the season progresses. September is by far his worst month careerwise. Fewest IP, highest ERA (by more than half a run), highest WHIP (by .18), only month with a losing record (9-15). August is his second worst month in those regards.

 

Perhaps those who were complaining when Farrell tried to get the rotation extra days rest here and there back in July and early August should maybe consider JF knew what he was trying to do. (Okay, that's probably asking too much). I'm pretty sure he had these types of stats available when all they saw was his last start.

 

I've been a strong critic of JF but never about how he handles the staff.

 

I'd look to give Sale and other an extra day of rest from now until the end of the season. I know we need to worry about winning the division, but it will all be for not, if Sale and others break down when it counts.

[Behindenemylines]

If Fister continues the trend he is on does he get a start if the Sox make the post season?

[moonslav59]

If Fister continues the trend he is on does he get a start if the Sox make the post season?

 

Yes.

[Behindenemylines]

Fister and pray for four days of rain! Who would have thought when D.D. signed him that he could do what he has been doing.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I think Fister has a chance to win a playoff rotation spot. I would like to see the Red Sox skip one or two of Sale's starts in Sept., but they won't be able to do that unless they build up their first place lead again.

[moonslav59]

I think Fister has a chance to win a playoff rotation spot. I would like to see the Red Sox skip one or two of Sale's starts in Sept., but they won't be able to do that unless they build up their first place lead again.

 

They don't have to skip Sale starts, just move him back a day for the rest of the season. That will mean he loses one start.

 

If we can't win while doing that, we weren't going anywhere anyhow.

[notin]

If Fister continues the trend he is on does he get a start if the Sox make the post season?

 

 

Well, right now he's the team ace....

[moonslav59]

I might set up the rotation like this...

 

September

5 ERod v TOR

6 Fister v TOR

7 --off--

8 Pom +1 v TBR

9 Sale +1 v TBR

10 Porc +1 v TBR

11 --off--

12 ERod +1 v OAK

13 Fister +1 v OAK

14 Pom +1 v OAK

15 Sale +1 @ TBR

16 Porc +1 @ TBR

17 ERod @ TBR

18 Fister @ BAL

19 Brian Johnson @ BAL

20 Pom +1 @BAL

21 --off--

22 Sale +2 @ CIN

23 Fister @ CIN (Swap with Porcello)

24 Porc +3 @ CIN (Swap with Fister)

25 Pom v TOR

26 ERod +2 v TOR

27 Brian Johnson v TOR

28 Sale +1 v HOU

29 Fister +1 v HOU

30 Pom v HOU (Swap with Porcello)

Oct 1 Por +2 v HOU (Swap with Pom)

2 ---off---

3 ---AL WC game---

4---off---

5 AL Div Game 5 games: Sale (+2 days rest)-Fister (+2) -Pom (+3)-Porcello (+3) -Sale

30 Porc v HOU

31

30 ERo

 

 

[cp176]

The latest is that Price is starting it up again. I know that it might not be a popular opinion but a functioning Price could really help us down the stretch. I have very little confidence overall right now in either Porcello (imagine that), E-Rod (hope he proves me wrong) and just a little more confidence in Pomeranz(even though I still him and the trade). Based on what we have seen recently, it would be Sale followed by Fister in the big picking order these days. I think we need another big armed lefty in there.