2017 Rotation Discussion

[Bellhorn04]

Josh Donaldson $17,000,000

Evan Longoria $13,166,667

Chase Hadley $13,000,000

Todd Frazier $12,000,000

Manny Machado $11,500,000

 

Rafael Devers League Minimum

 

Henry Approves!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes, cheap young talent is the best. Unfortunately if the SOB's keep playing well they get radically more expensive.

 

Longoria's contract is probably the best bargain in modern baseball history.

[moonslav59]

Bottom line:

 

Overall, Beni is doing better than the composite 2016 Sox LF'er, and much better than 2015's (HRam).

[Spudboy]

But Advanced Stats don't say that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Why do you keep posting this?

 

I did not look at those critical stats because I don't need to in order to form an opinion.

 

I made reference to those stats because whenever anyone posts an observation that is not accompanied by supporting data it is immediately

 

rebuked by people looking to prove that their unit is bigger. My statement is my opinion based on my observations, not an accumulated batch of numbers that may or may not

 

 

reflect reality. I am surprised that no one has responded with stats that prove I am wrong such as when I made a comment that was rebuffed by the essential point of Benni

 

being 3rd in dWAR right behind Gardner. Who f***ing cares where he ranks? My point was that he needed to get better at certain things.

 

Which the all important defensive metrics reinforce!!! Hahahahahaha!11!

[Spudboy]

Bottom line:

 

Overall, Beni is doing better than the composite 2016 Sox LF'er, and much better than 2015's (HRam).

 

Oh wonderful. Let's be satisfied with mediocrity.

 

This team can do better still.

[mvp 78]

Why do you keep posting this?

 

I did not look at those critical stats because I don't need to in order to form an opinion.

 

I made reference to those stats because whenever anyone posts an observation that is not accompanied by supporting data it is immediately

 

rebuked by people looking to prove that their unit is bigger. My statement is my opinion based on my observations, not an accumulated batch of numbers that may or may not

 

 

reflect reality. I am surprised that no one has responded with stats that prove I am wrong such as when I made a comment that was rebuffed by the essential point of Benni

 

being 3rd in dWAR right behind Gardner. Who f***ing cares where he ranks? My point was that he needed to get better at certain things.

 

Which the all important defensive metrics reinforce!!! Hahahahahaha!11!

 

Because it's kinda ridiculous to say "I don't care what the Advanced Stats say, he sucks" when the Advanced Stats agree with your position. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Spudboy]

Because it's kinda ridiculous to say "I don't care what the Advanced Stats say, he sucks" when the Advanced Stats agree with your position. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Oh brother. I'm not sure what you missed in my posts. I have my opinions based on my observation irrespective of stats. That was one of my points.

[S5Dewey]

Take a breath, guys. It appears that you're saying the same thing!! The difference is that MVP has that unconventional smiley thing after his posts. :-)

[Spudboy]

Take a breath, guys. It appears that you're saying the same thing!! The difference is that MVP has that unconventional smiley thing after his posts. :-)

 

I have no idea what that smiley thing means.

[cp176]

I have no idea what that smiley thing means.

 

Those little F------ squiggly things are Egyptian hieroglyphs clearly. Thought you would like the ----s. lol

Trying to clean up my act!

[S5Dewey]

Those little F------ squiggly things are Egyptian hieroglyphs clearly. Thought you would like the ----s. lol

Trying to clean up my act!

 

Why? The old act was fine!!

[User Name]

I like my advanced stats with a variety of toppings, but honey and cream are my favorites.

[a700hitter]

I like my advanced stats with a variety of toppings, but honey and cream are my favorites.

That is no good for your diabetes.

[User Name]

That is no good for your diabetes.

 

That's why I love 'em.

[Kimmi]

Discussion was on how to make up for Ortiz' loss. Having Beni play entire year in LF was one of ways to make up for Ortiz' loss.

 

Beni will be fine. He is not making up as big a difference as some of us hoped for, but the pitching and defense are making up for it.

[BstHcpr]

Josh Donaldson $17,000,000

Evan Longoria $13,166,667

Chase Hadley $13,000,000

Todd Frazier $12,000,000

Manny Machado $11,500,000

 

Rafael Devers League Minimum

 

Henry Approves!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

3B is money position. I would argue that SS is a defensive position and you should not spend great deal of money on it. I'm just not keen on giving out long term $20M contract to Xander.

 

What about Carlos Correra?

[moonslav59]

Beni will be fine. He is not making up as big a difference as some of us hoped for, but the pitching and defense are making up for it.

 

Maybe all the studies are wrong. Maybe I totally underestimated how much Papi's positive influence on just about every hitter returning from 2016, but I really felt it was reasonable to expect the combined productivity of 22-28 year old players to improve in 2017. Since even our older players were all 32 or under, I expected the remaining players to improve slightly. Add to that a full season from Beni, and I think it was very reasonable to at least expect equal production (as a whole) from everyone else not named Ortiz.

 

(Note: 2016 LF OPS: .759/ Beni's 2017 OPS: .784)

 

Nobody expected Moreland with more PAs by Young to replace Papi's production, but if the other 8 positions just did as well as 2016, we'd be 10-15 games up right now and on pace for 100 wins.

 

I know, "if, if, IF!", but on paper, the 2017 plan looked sound. DD even left enough budget space (by trading Buch) to make some in-season moves, and the ones he made have looked pretty good, so far.

 

Injuries happen to every team, but we lost our $31M starter. We lost our 5th starter (Wright). We lost our #2 RP'er (Thornburg) who was supposed to cover for our real #2 RP'er (Smith) until he came back. We even lost our most consistent RP'er from 2015-2016) for most of the season (Robbie Ross). Our Cy Young winner has pitched like a #5. Our #3 starter has been injured or rehabbing for a while (ERod), and yet despite all that has "gone wrong", we're still winning more than 2016's team at this point.

 

Thank God (and DD) we got Chris freakin' Sale!

 

I'm still very optimistic about this team. Devers and Nunez have added that missing spark. If just some of all these things that have gone wrong start to right themselves, watch out!

 

[S5Dewey]

If the criteria for MVP is "Where would this team be without him?" the hands-down winner will be Chris Sale.

[Larry Cook]

Rodriguez threw a nice game against the Yankees tonight. If we get him going, our rotation will be even better.

[moonslav59]

If the criteria for MVP is "Where would this team be without him?" the hands-down winner will be Chris Sale.

 

No debate.

[moonslav59]

Rodriguez threw a nice game against the Yankees tonight. If we get him going, our rotation will be even better.

 

With Price's health in doubt, and Porcello's ability to keep it in the park in doubt, ERod could end up being a very key piece in our run for a ring.

[Kimmi]

Maybe all the studies are wrong. Maybe I totally underestimated how much Papi's positive influence on just about every hitter returning from 2016, but I really felt it was reasonable to expect the combined productivity of 22-28 year old players to improve in 2017. Since even our older players were all 32 or under, I expected the remaining players to improve slightly. Add to that a full season from Beni, and I think it was very reasonable to at least expect equal production (as a whole) from everyone else not named Ortiz.

 

(Note: 2016 LF OPS: .759/ Beni's 2017 OPS: .784)

 

Nobody expected Moreland with more PAs by Young to replace Papi's production, but if the other 8 positions just did as well as 2016, we'd be 10-15 games up right now and on pace for 100 wins.

 

I know, "if, if, IF!", but on paper, the 2017 plan looked sound. DD even left enough budget space (by trading Buch) to make some in-season moves, and the ones he made have looked pretty good, so far.

 

Injuries happen to every team, but we lost our $31M starter. We lost our 5th starter (Wright). We lost our #2 RP'er (Thornburg) who was supposed to cover for our real #2 RP'er (Smith) until he came back. We even lost our most consistent RP'er from 2015-2016) for most of the season (Robbie Ross). Our Cy Young winner has pitched like a #5. Our #3 starter has been injured or rehabbing for a while (ERod), and yet despite all that has "gone wrong", we're still winning more than 2016's team at this point.

 

Thank God (and DD) we got Chris freakin' Sale!

 

I'm still very optimistic about this team. Devers and Nunez have added that missing spark. If just some of all these things that have gone wrong start to right themselves, watch out!

 

 

The offensive expectations were reasonable. You can't expect all the players to hit at or above expectations, but they also should not pretty much all be hitting below expectations.

 

For all the problems and complaints the team has had, we lead the division by 3 1/2 games.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Kimmi

[Nick]

Moving forward, both E Rod and Pom needs to work on being more efficient, getting into 7th inning from time to time.

 

Holding 3 innings in a tight game could become problematic.

[moonslav59]

Moving forward, both E Rod and Pom needs to work on being more efficient, getting into 7th inning from time to time.

 

Holding 3 innings in a tight game could become problematic.

 

Agreed, but these two were supposed to be our 4th and 6th starters this year. They've done good to great jobs in those roles.

 

The problem is that injuries to Price and inconsistency by Porcello have thrust these two into the 2-3 slots of our rotation. Now we do need 7 innings from both, but I'm not sure it's realistic to expect even more from these two that what they've given us. I think trading for Reed and the return of Kelly (and maybe Smith) was supposed to help us out with better 7th inning RP'ers (by attrition), but so far,

that has not happened.

 

I hate to say it, but I think this season may come down to our pen- the position I felt was our weakest- not weak- position before the season started.

[Kimmi]

Agreed, but these two were supposed to be our 4th and 6th starters this year. They've done good to great jobs in those roles.

 

The problem is that injuries to Price and inconsistency by Porcello have thrust these two into the 2-3 slots of our rotation. Now we do need 7 innings from both, but I'm not sure it's realistic to expect even more from these two that what they've given us. I think trading for Reed and the return of Kelly (and maybe Smith) was supposed to help us out with better 7th inning RP'ers (by attrition), but so far,

that has not happened.

 

I hate to say it, but I think this season may come down to our pen- the position I felt was our weakest- not weak- position before the season started.

 

And yet, our pen is one of the best in the league. 1st in ERA, 2nd in WAR.

[Larry Cook]

Despite the fact that Farrell fell asleep last night when reed entered the game. The fact that our bullpen has done so well this year is a testament to the fact that Farrell has done a good job this year with the pitching staff.

 

And by the way smith and Thornburg have spent the entire year in bed.

 

And Rodriguez, Wright and price have missed significant time due to injury.

[moonslav59]

And yet, our pen is one of the best in the league. 1st in ERA, 2nd in WAR.

 

The biggest surprise of the year, to me.

 

Yeah, Sale is doing off-the-charts great, but I always thought he was one of the greatest.

 

I hope the pen continues to be the best, but I'm worried about Kelly's return, Barnes and Hembree's struggles and Reed in general.

[moonslav59]

Despite the fact that Farrell fell asleep last night when reed entered the game. The fact that our bullpen has done so well this year is a testament to the fact that Farrell has done a good job this year with the pitching staff.

 

And by the way smith and Thornburg have spent the entire year in bed.

 

And Rodriguez, Wright and price have missed significant time due to injury.

 

I have very few complaints about how JF handles the staff and how he chooses who will catch each starter. He'd have been great as our pitching coach all along.

[Spudboy]

Moving forward, both E Rod and Pom needs to work on being more efficient, getting into 7th inning from time to time.

 

Holding 3 innings in a tight game could become problematic.

 

Yup.

 

I have pointed this out and now I am receiving s*** for it.

 

Having good stuff is nice. But making it last longer is better.

 

Someone better jump on that I tossed you a meatball!

[moonslav59]

Can Viagra help Pom last longer?

 

I'm not sure I want to mess with him in any way.

 

Keep giving us 5-6 innings, and I'll be happy.

 

It's Porcello and Price that need to get their act together and start giving us 7-8 innings of solid pitching.

[Emp9]

Can Viagra help Pom last longer?

 

I'm not sure I want to mess with him in any way.

 

Keep giving us 5-6 innings, and I'll be happy.

 

It's Porcello and Price that need to get their act together and start giving us 7-8 innings of solid pitching.

 

If Wright wasn't gone for the season, I think we'd have 5 more in the win column, and that's being conservative. But Pom and ERod have done their part, I agree. It's worth being cautious w/ Price, I'd hate to lose him totally right now. Porcello is the one that has got to step it up in my opinion.