2017 Rotation Discussion

[cp176]

Are they going to charter a separate plane for the TV and radio guys?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

Eck usually isn't on the travel plane because he rarely does away games to begin with.

 

If some of the Red Sox players are applauding Price for ambushing Eck, because he was doing his job, then I've got real concerns about how the clubhouse is being led.

The team is missing Ortiz in more ways than on the field.

It's a shame Pedroia doesn't seem to have what it takes to be a team leader.

 

I really hope Price has a great year.

Then, he opts out.

 

I agree with everything here. My guess is that Eck does even fewer road games now.

[SoxnCycles]

Agree with those comments. Just for clarification, Price's opt-out comes after the 2018 season.

 

Pity.

I don't see this team being able to get past the first round of the playoffs, with Price in the clubhouse.

Edited July 25, 2017 by SoxnCycles

[Jack Flap]

Eckersley is blunt and says what he thinks, but I've never heard him be unfair or derogatory towards a player. He does not go around just bashing guys, and always gives credit when it's due...and what's more is his thoughts have the added clout of coming from someone who has been through it all before and walked the walk. I understand that players and broadcasters don't have to be and probably aren't going to be best friends, but there seems to be some special animosity in the clubhouse towards Eck for some reason and I'm not quite sure why. It's like the players think he should be there to kiss their asses and never say anything critical, and because that's not his style, he's an enemy.

 

I can agree with the previous post that this isn't "Watergate," but it does disturb me when our $217 million pitcher is reported to be ranting like a lunatic and verbally abusing people in front of the team, apparently with the support of at least some of his teammates. Despite Price's reputation as a great teammate, can anyone say they feel good about the thought of Mookie, Xander, Jackie, AB, and other young players sitting at this guy's knee and learning from his actions and his sour attitude?

 

Hopefully Price and Farrell give Eck the apology he is owed, the team goes on a winning streak with Price pitching well, and this can be swiftly forgotten...

[SoxnCycles]

Eckersley is blunt and says what he thinks, but I've never heard him be unfair or derogatory towards a player. He does not go around just bashing guys, and always gives credit when it's due...and what's more is his thoughts have the added clout of coming from someone who has been through it all before and walked the walk. I understand that players and broadcasters don't have to be and probably aren't going to be best friends, but there seems to be some special animosity in the clubhouse towards Eck for some reason and I'm not quite sure why. It's like the players think he should be there to kiss their asses and never say anything critical, and because that's not his style, he's an enemy.

 

I can agree with the previous post that this isn't "Watergate," but it does disturb me when our $217 million pitcher is reported to be ranting like a lunatic and verbally abusing people in front of the team, apparently with the support of at least some of his teammates. Despite Price's reputation as a great teammate, can anyone say they feel good about the thought of Mookie, Xander, Jackie, AB, and other young players sitting at this guy's knee and learning from his actions and his sour attitude?

Hopefully Price and Farrell give Eck the apology he is owed, the team goes on a winning streak with Price pitching well, and this can be swiftly forgotten...

 

Nope, and it's too bad.

I really liked this group, at the start of the season.

Now, not so much...

 

I've got no great love for the boston media and I don't blame players for getting POed if they hear there was a hatchet job written about them in the Globe or Herald.

But, going after the TV color guy, because he did his job is way out of line.

 

Farrel is an idiot for not doing more to stop it.

[Bellhorn04]

Eckersley is blunt and says what he thinks, but I've never heard him be unfair or derogatory towards a player. He does not go around just bashing guys, and always gives credit when it's due...and what's more is his thoughts have the added clout of coming from someone who has been through it all before and walked the walk. I understand that players and broadcasters don't have to be and probably aren't going to be best friends, but there seems to be some special animosity in the clubhouse towards Eck for some reason and I'm not quite sure why. It's like the players think he should be there to kiss their asses and never say anything critical, and because that's not his style, he's an enemy.

 

I can agree with the previous post that this isn't "Watergate," but it does disturb me when our $217 million pitcher is reported to be ranting like a lunatic and verbally abusing people in front of the team, apparently with the support of at least some of his teammates. Despite Price's reputation as a great teammate, can anyone say they feel good about the thought of Mookie, Xander, Jackie, AB, and other young players sitting at this guy's knee and learning from his actions and his sour attitude?

 

But Jackie is the one who pulled the stunt on Eck a couple of years ago. Eck is obviously considered fair game in the clubhouse and Farrell has done nothing but enable it.

[illinoisredsox]

Pity.

I don't see this team being able to get past the first round of the playoffs, with Price in the clubhouse.

 

Price in the clubhouse will have nothing to do on whether they get past the first round or even get to the first round. If people think getting rid of him and replacing him in the rotation with Fister or Johnson is going to change this team for the better, they are nuts.

 

If Betts, Bogaerts and Hanley don't start hitting like they are capable of, it's not going to matter. Beni and Bradley getting a little more consistent would help as well.

[SoxnCycles]

Price in the clubhouse will have nothing to do on whether they get past the first round or even get to the first round. If people think getting rid of him and replacing him in the rotation with Fister or Johnson is going to change this team for the better, they are nuts.

 

If Betts, Bogaerts and Hanley don't start hitting like they are capable of, it's not going to matter. Beni and Bradley getting a little more consistent would help as well.

 

Evidently, I think clubhouse atitude shows up on the field more than you do. That's fine.

I hardly think Fister or Johnson will be around when Price opts out, so I'm not sure what replacing Price with either of those two has to do with the conversation.

 

Looking forward to watching Price again in a playoff game? I'm not.

[moonslav59]

Pity.

I don't see this team being able to get past the first round of the playoffs, with Price in the clubhouse.

 

With all due respect. I doubt we make it out of the first round without Price.

[SoxnCycles]

With all due respect. I doubt we make it out of the first round without Price.

 

Yeah, he's been money in the post season.

 

If not for Sale, I think we get a repeat of last year.

[moonslav59]

Price in the clubhouse will have nothing to do on whether they get past the first round or even get to the first round. If people think getting rid of him and replacing him in the rotation with Fister or Johnson is going to change this team for the better, they are nuts.

 

If Betts, Bogaerts and Hanley don't start hitting like they are capable of, it's not going to matter. Beni and Bradley getting a little more consistent would help as well.

 

If I were HRam, I'd be snapping at posters on this site.

 

THe guy has been one of our hottest hitters, and I keep seeing post after post about him not hitting, him needing to be platooned or benched, and him needing to change an approach that has done him well his whole career.

 

Team OPS over the last 28 days: .693

.936 Pedey

.881 Betts

.880 HRam

.723 JBJ

.710 Marrero

.705 Beni

(The rest are below the team OPS)

 

Team OPS over last 14 days: .565

.911 Pedey

.772 Betts

.731 HRam

.607 Young

 

I understand that Bogey's sudden illness forced Beni into the line-up vs a lefty, but he should not start another game vs a lefty, until he shows he can lay off the outside and low breaking balls.

 

1) Bring Tavis back up, so he can platoon with Moreland, and Young can platoon with Beni.

 

2) Send Marrero down or trade Holt.

 

3) Shake up the line-up- NOW!

I suggest:

vs RHP/Vs LHP

1) Bogey/Young

2) Pedey

3) JBJ

4) Betts

5) HRam

6) Beni/ Bogey

7) Devers/Travis

8) Moreland/ Holt or Marrero

9) Leon/Vaz

 

4) Consider a managerial change.

 

5) Look for a power hitting 1Bman via trade (Alonso?)

 

6) Some player take the lead and call a team meeting and try to get some fire from off the field to a fire on the field.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, he's been money in the post season.

 

 

Small sample size.

 

We won't win without Price.

[mvp 78]

If I were Hanley Ramirez and making $20M a year, I wouldn't care what anyone would say about me.

[mvp 78]

Small sample size.

 

We won't win without Price.

 

Is Price the 4th or 5th starter? Which of the current guys in the rotation would have the best value out of the pen?

 

Sale

Pomeranz

ERod

Porcello

Price

 

Pomeranz has been too good to put into the pen. Porcello has no experience pitching in the pen and his stuff wouldn't seem to play up out there. Either ERod or Price goes to the pen. If ERod can start pitching later in games, he'll be a far better bet to start than Price. Price has the perfect stuff to come out of the pen. He's basically a fastball guy who has lost a little velocity. Put him in the pen for the playoffs and he'll have a little extra oomph on that FB. He could pitch a ton of innings out there and would be a valuable piece. He's done very well pitching in the playoffs in the pen before.

[Kimmi]

According to Shaughnessy, and the article on this incident seems to be one of his better efforts, there has been disgruntlement about Eck in the Red Sox clubhouse for several years. Let's also not overlook the report of Sox players applauding Price on the plane.

 

I'm mainly just pointing out that this isn't all about Price acting like a lone nut. He may have been doing this with a lot of support.

 

I'm not excusing Price, but I'm wondering if there is more to the story that we haven't heard. The fact that 'many teammates' applauded (not excusing them either) makes me wonder if there is a deeper root to this problem, not necessarily with Eck, but with the media in general. I understand that the Boston media is always tough, but maybe there's something else going on.

 

Or maybe our team is just a bunch of whiny, entitled players.

 

Again, I'm not excusing anyone's behavior here. Price and the teammates were out of line regardless of a deeper root or not.

[Kimmi]

Price has not met expectations since he signed with the Sox. He has been way too inconsistent to ever be counted on to be The Man and that was the plan when he was signed' date=' And that is before we get to his post season history. Now we have this move along with the well know reports of a sour attitude. What a clown, Eck was simply doing his job and the comments were on point. I'm not ready to say get him out but he sure is on my S List.[/quote']

 

Thanks Dave!

[mvp 78]

I'm not excusing Price, but I'm wondering if there is more to the story that we haven't heard. The fact that 'many teammates' applauded (not excusing them either) makes me wonder if there is a deeper root to this problem, not necessarily with Eck, but with the media in general. I understand that the Boston media is always tough, but maybe there's something else going on.

 

Or maybe our team is just a bunch of whiny, entitled players.

 

Again, I'm not excusing anyone's behavior here. Price and the teammates were out of line regardless of a deeper root or not.

 

I don't doubt the story, but I question the "many players applauding" aspect to it. That seems like something Shaughnessy would add in. I'd google how to spell his name right, but he doesn't deserve it.

[SoxnCycles]

Small sample size.

 

We won't win without Price.

 

It's the only sample available.

I'll believe Price is a good playoff pitcher when he actually does something in the playoffs, not before.

[moonslav59]

It's the only sample available.

That doesn't make it valid.

How about these guys in short playoff sample sizes?

Pom 4.91 ERA/1.64 WHIP

Porcello 5.66/1.39

 

I'll believe Price is a good playoff pitcher when he actually does something in the playoffs, not before.

To each his own.

[mvp 78]

It's the only sample available.

I'll believe Price is a good playoff pitcher when he actually does something in the playoffs, not before.

 

4 Quality Starts in 9 Games Started (0-8, 5.95 ERA)

His Home Runs Allowed rate is worse in the playoffs as a starter than Porcello has been this year

[mvp 78]

It's the only sample available.

That doesn't make it valid.

How about these guys in short playoff sample sizes?

Pom 4.91 ERA/1.64 WHIP

Porcello 5.66/1.39

 

I'll believe Price is a good playoff pitcher when he actually does something in the playoffs, not before.

To each his own.

 

Price's numbers are worse than those.

[SoxnCycles]

It's the only sample available.

That doesn't make it valid.

How about these guys in short playoff sample sizes?

Pom 4.91 ERA/1.64 WHIP

Porcello 5.66/1.39

 

I'll believe Price is a good playoff pitcher when he actually does something in the playoffs, not before.

To each his own.

 

So, you believe Price is going to bail out the rest of the staff in the playoffs?

Good luck with that.

[Spudboy]

Nope, and it's too bad.

I really liked this group, at the start of the season.

Now, not so much...

 

I've got no great love for the boston media and I don't blame players for getting POed if they hear there was a hatchet job written about them in the Globe or Herald.

But, going after the TV color guy, because he did his job is way out of line.

 

Farrel is an idiot for not doing more to stop it.

 

I am with you on this.

 

I don't want to lose Price after 2018 if he is pitching like his first 7 years in the league.

 

But I don't want a bad egg spoiling the clubhouse either.

 

He needs a script for controlling his emotions when not on the field. Or maybe something a wee bit stronger like Thorazine. If that does not work then we need to get a ball gag for the guy.

 

All this does not bode well for this team. Under performing already, this thing could fall apart very easily.

[mvp 78]

I am with you on this.

 

I don't want to lose Price after 2018 if he is pitching like his first 7 years in the league.

 

But I don't want a bad egg spoiling the clubhouse either.

 

He needs a script for controlling his emotions when not on the field. Or maybe something a wee bit stronger like Thorazine. If that does not work then we need to get a ball gag for the guy.

 

All this does not bode well for this team. Under performing already, this thing could fall apart very easily.

 

I hope he pitches like an ace for the next 15 months and then opts out.

[S5Dewey]

Price is 1-8 in 9 starts with an ERA of ~6.00 and has had one good playoff year since 2008.

 

While it is only 9 starts I don't see how anyone can dismiss that kind of continued failure as a "small sample size". The thing about trying to draw any conclusions from playoff performance is that there are going to be so few games that it will always be a SSS. At some point don't we have the right to expect Price to not pitch well in the playoffs because of his past history?

 

And don't get me wrong... I like having Price on the team. As I've said before, he's been the kind of guy who can get you there but can't get you out the other side, and I'd rather get there than not. I just tend to have realistic expectations as to what he's going to do in the playoffs.

[mvp 78]

Price is 1-8 in 9 starts with an ERA of ~6.00 and has had one good playoff year since 2008.

 

While it is only 9 starts I don't see how anyone can dismiss that kind of continued failure as a "small sample size". The thing about trying to draw any conclusions from playoff performance is that there are going to be so few games that it will always be a SSS. At some point don't we have the right to expect Price to not pitch well in the playoffs because of his past history?

 

And don't get me wrong... I like having Price on the team. As I've said before, he's been the kind of guy who can get you there but can't get you out the other side, and I'd rather get there than not. I just tend to have realistic expectations as to what he's going to do in the playoffs.

 

He's 0-8. His only wins have come in relief.

[moonslav59]

So, you believe Price is going to bail out the rest of the staff in the playoffs?

Good luck with that.

 

I never said that.

 

I just don't expect failure due to any scattered tiny sample size.

 

I think he'll be fine, if I had to guess. I see him as our #2 starter behind Sale. I'm not easily swayed by a players most recent sample size or scattered samples from years past.

[cp176]

I never said that.

 

I just don't expect failure due to any scattered tiny sample size.

 

I think he'll be fine, if I had to guess. I see him as our #2 starter behind Sale. I'm not easily swayed by a players most recent sample size or scattered samples from years past.

 

It is very possible and maybe even predictable I guess that Price doesn't help us in the playoffs but if he doesn't pitch well for us for the rest of this regular season it is quite possible that this team won't get to the playoffs.

[Northern Star]

It is very possible and maybe even predictable I guess that Price doesn't help us in the playoffs but if he doesn't pitch well for us for the rest of this regular season it is quite possible that this team won't get to the playoffs.

 

At some point it looks less like coincidence and more like track record. And we're past that point where Price in the postseason is concerned.

[Kimmi]

I am concerned about how this new negative media attention is going to affect his performance on the field.

 

Does he have the mental toughness to put it behind him and pitch?

 

Will he be booed by the Fenway Faithful in his next home start?

[mvp 78]

I am concerned about how this new negative media attention is going to affect his performance on the field.

 

Does he have the mental toughness to put it behind him and pitch?

 

Will he be booed by the Fenway Faithful in his next home start?

 

If you can't deal with the media, you aren't mentally tough to succeed in the playoffs.

 

Someone on here once said that all the mentally soft guys were weeded out in MiLB.