3rd Third III

[moonslav59]

And the Marlins and the Guardians.

 

It's a tough call between the White Sox and the Guardians. Chicago doesn't need 2 teams, but neither does Ohio.

 

That would get the league to 24 teams. You'd have 3 divisions in each league with 4 teams per division. That's much more aesthetically pleasing than what they have now and would work far better for scheduling.

 

Or, 4 divisions of 6 teams:

 

TOR

BOS

NYY

NYM

PHI

BAL

 

WAS

ATL

HOU

TEX

STL

KCR

 

PIT

DET

CIN

CWS

CC

COL

 

AZ

SD

LAD

LAA

SFG

SEA

 

Schedule:

vs own DIV (5 teams) x 18 games= 90

vs others (18 teams) x 4 games= 72

 

Here's how I would do 6 divisions of 4 teams:

 

TOR

BOS

NYY

NYM

 

PHI

BAL

WAS

ATL

 

DET

PIT

CIN

CWS

______

CC

STL

KCR

COL

 

TEX

HOU

AZ

SD

 

LAD

LAA

SFG

SEA

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Moon, did you just contract San Francisco in order to keep the Marlins?

[notin]

He did it for Oakland. ..

[mvp 78]

How about realignment?

 

Flip Angels and A's for Arizona and Colorado. NL West thus will become all California teams. Dodgers, Giants, Padres, A's and Angels.....minimize travel and it would create a freaking buz.

Flip Mets and Washington for Toronto and Tampa Bay. AL East thus will become Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Mets and the Nats.

Flip Guardians and White Sox for Cardinals and Milwaukee. NL Central becomes Chicago (2), Reds, Guardians and Pirates.

 

Make DH mandatory. New generation of baseball fans has grown up watching DH employed starting at the high school level if not sooner. I don't want to watch pitchers hit. Essentially you are killing 2 innings out of 9 (usually pitchers are pinch hit by the 3rd time at bat)

 

I don't even want to watch Marrero hit, why would I want to watch Price hit?

 

Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, Nats, Orioles

Brewers, Cardinals, Tigers, Royals, Twins

Rockies, Rangers, Astros, Mariners, Diamondbacks

 

 

Marlins, Rays, Blue Jays, Braves, Phillies

Cubs, White Sox, Guardians, Reds, Pirates

Dodgers, Giants, A's, Angels, Padres

 

SEA would have to be with SF and OAK for travel purposes. I'd swap them with Padrees.

 

The TOR division is weird too. Flip TOR and PHI with DC and BAL.

[moonslav59]

How about realignment?

 

Flip Angels and A's for Arizona and Colorado. NL West thus will become all California teams. Dodgers, Giants, Padres, A's and Angels.....minimize travel and it would create a freaking buz.

Flip Mets and Washington for Toronto and Tampa Bay. AL East thus will become Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Mets and the Nats.

Flip Guardians and White Sox for Cardinals and Milwaukee. NL Central becomes Chicago (2), Reds, Guardians and Pirates.

 

Make DH mandatory. New generation of baseball fans has grown up watching DH employed starting at the high school level if not sooner. I don't want to watch pitchers hit. Essentially you are killing 2 innings out of 9 (usually pitchers are pinch hit by the 3rd time at bat)

 

I don't even want to watch Marrero hit, why would I want to watch Price hit?

 

Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, Nats, Orioles

Brewers, Cardinals, Tigers, Royals, Twins

Rockies, Rangers, Astros, Mariners, Diamondbacks

 

 

Marlins, Rays, Blue Jays, Braves, Phillies

Cubs, White Sox, Guardians, Reds, Pirates

Dodgers, Giants, A's, Angels, Padres

 

I'd do it this way:

 

OPTION A: 6 divisions of 5 teams

 

EAST: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, BAL

SOUTH: WAS, ATL, TBR, MIA, KCR

NORTH: TOR, PIT, DET, CLE, CIN

CENTRAL: MN, MIL, CWS, CC, STL

SouthWest: TEX, HOU, COL, AZ, SD

WEST: LAD, LAA, OAK, SFG, SEA

 

Schedule:

vs own Div (4 teams) x 18 games= 72 games

vs own conference (10 teams) x 6 games= 60 games

vs other conference (15 teams) x 2 games= 30 games

 

Option B: 5 divisions of 6 teams (no AL/NL or 2 conferences):

East: TOR, BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, BAL

South: WAS, ATL, MIA, TBR, TEX, HOU

North: PIT, DET, CIN, CLE, CWS, CC

Central: MN, MIL, STL, KCR, COL, AZ

West: SD, LAD, LAA, OAK, SFG, SEA

 

Schedule:

vs own div (5 teams) x 18 games= 90 games

vs 3 other divisions (24 teams) x 3 games= 72 games

 

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Moon, did you just contract San Francisco in order to keep the Marlins?

 

Ooops. I'll edit.

[Nick]

I'd do it this way:

 

OPTION A: 6 divisions of 5 teams

 

EAST: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, BAL

SOUTH: WAS, ATL, TBR, MIA, KCR

NORTH: TOR, PIT, DET, CLE, CIN

CENTRAL: MN, MIL, CWS, CC, STL

SouthWest: TEX, HOU, COL, AZ, SD

WEST: LAD, LAA, OAK, SFG, SEA

 

Schedule:

vs own Div (4 teams) x 18 games= 72 games

vs own conference (10 teams) x 6 games= 60 games

vs other conference (15 teams) x 2 games= 30 games

 

Option B: 5 divisions of 6 teams (no AL/NL or 2 conferences):

East: TOR, BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, BAL

South: WAS, ATL, MIA, TBR, TEX, HOU

North: PIT, DET, CIN, CLE, CWS, CC

Central: MN, MIL, STL, KCR, COL, AZ

West: SD, LAD, LAA, OAK, SFG, SEA

 

Schedule:

vs own div (5 teams) x 18 games= 90 games

vs 3 other divisions (24 teams) x 3 games= 72 games

 

 

 

 

 

I like Option A better than mine.

 

I'm oppose to balanced, 4 division 4 teams per league. We now have 5 playoff spots. The last two spots keep several teams in contention. It creates excitement deep into baseball season. (this is in response to poster talking about adding 1 team to both leagues.)

Edited July 13, 2017 by Nick

[moonslav59]

I like Option A better than mine.

 

I'm oppose to balanced, 4 division 4 teams per league. We now have 5 playoff spots. The last two spots keep several teams in contention. It creates excitement deep into baseball season.

 

The one thing about option B is that 5 divisions would create a way for 3 wild card winners and none of that awful play-in game crap.

 

I'd also seed the playoffs based on W-L records not division winners getting higher seeds than better WC teams.

[sk7326]

How about realignment?

 

Flip Angels and A's for Arizona and Colorado. NL West thus will become all California teams. Dodgers, Giants, Padres, A's and Angels.....minimize travel and it would create a freaking buz.

Flip Mets and Washington for Toronto and Tampa Bay. AL East thus will become Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Mets and the Nats.

Flip Guardians and White Sox for Cardinals and Milwaukee. NL Central becomes Chicago (2), Reds, Guardians and Pirates.

 

Make DH mandatory. New generation of baseball fans has grown up watching DH employed starting at the high school level if not sooner. I don't want to watch pitchers hit. Essentially you are killing 2 innings out of 9 (usually pitchers are pinch hit by the 3rd time at bat)

 

I don't even want to watch Marrero hit, why would I want to watch Price hit?

 

Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, Nats, Orioles

Brewers, Cardinals, Tigers, Royals, Twins

Rockies, Rangers, Astros, Mariners, Diamondbacks

 

 

Marlins, Rays, Blue Jays, Braves, Phillies

Cubs, White Sox, Guardians, Reds, Pirates

Dodgers, Giants, A's, Angels, Padres

 

If anything, baseball could survive expanding more ... if I ruled the world? (imagine that - some of this will never happen for lots of reasons, territorial monopolies mostly ... and I am assuming stadiums can happen in every place, which is obviously not true)

 

1. Move A's to San Jose - they've wanted to do it, and SF's territorial claim is nonsense.

2. Move the Rays to Brooklyn - NY can sustain 3 teams easily

3. Add 2 new teams. Put the Expos in Montreal again. I'd probably add a team in North Carolina. Strong minor league baseball tradition yada yada yada.

 

Go to four eight team divisions

 

AL East: Red Sox, Yankees, BROOKLYN, Orioles, Blue Jays, Tigers, Guardians, CAROLINA

AL West: White Sox, Royals, Rangers, Astros, Angels, SAN JOSE, Mariners, Twins

NL East: Nationals, Braves, Phillies, Mets, Marlins, EXPOS, Pirates, Reds

NL West: Brewers, Cubs, Rockies, Cardinals, Padres, Giants, Dodgers, Diamondbacks

 

Division opponents 12 times ... 84 games

Other division opponents 9 times = 72 games

One cross league rival = 6 games

 

Yankees-Mets, Orioles-Nationals, Blue Jays-Expos, Cubs-White Sox, SAN JOSE-Giants, Royals-Cards, Guardians-Reds, Dodgers-Angels locked in

 

4 east:east cross rivals locked in, 4 west:west cross rivals locked in

The other teams rotate east:east and west:west. So Red Sox would rotate between Braves, Phillies, Pirates and Marlins over 4 years.

 

2 division winners and 4 wild cards from each league

Edited July 13, 2017 by sk7326

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Moving the Rays to Brooklyn doesn't work because (1) you would be penalizing the Mets more than the Yankees. If you want to move another team to N.Y. I think you would pick an area north of Bronx, like Westchester or Yonkers, but the Yankees would flip out over that. Another option would be Northern N.J. In that scenario, you would be penalizing the Yankees and Mets equally. (2) The Rays aren't moving! The State of Florida has just as many people as the State of N.Y. and Florida is growing whereas N.Y. is not. The Rays have an ugly stadium and terrible attendance, but they get high TV ratings and that is important. They need a new stadium, and that'll eventually happen.

 

I would like to see the Expos return, and put in the same division with the Blue Jays to create an awesome rivalry. Las Vegas could be the site of a second expansion team but maybe Northern New Jersey would be a better choice. North Carolina is interesting too.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Fan_since_Boggs

[mvp 78]

RE: WMB

 

From Baseball Prospectus Top 50 Busts

 

42. Will Middlebrooks, 3B, Boston Red Sox (2007, 5th Round)

 

Why We Cared: The left side of the Red Sox's infield was lacking anything concrete in the early 2010s, and Will Middlebrooks looked like he'd be a building block. WMB launched WMDs in the minors, showing good plate discipline with prodigious power. A broken wrist halted his impressive 2012 campaign, where he posted a .279 TAv with decent defense at the hot corner.

 

What Went Wrong: His discipline and health vanished. 2012's good stats covered up a terrible K/BB, and it - along with his defense - worsened in 2013. Middlebrooks peaked with a 3 HR game in early April, and then succumbed to a series of injuries throughout 2013 and 2014: strained back, strained calf, broken finger. The outside part of the plate continued to confound him, his contact rates dropped, and in December of 2014, the Red Sox traded him for Ryan Hanigan. He didn't make them regret it. (Brett Cowett)

[mvp 78]

Not the only Sox 3B mentionned:

 

22. Garin Cecchini, 3B, Boston Red Sox (2010, 4th Round)

 

Why We Cared: His swing was so pure, his approach so good, his makeup so pure, his stats so encouraging. He passed the numbers test. He passed the eyes test. He passed the “what people say about him” test. He taught me how to double-down

 

What Went Wrong: The power never came. The glove was never plus. The swing grew a hitch. The numbers went south, the reports went south, the rankings went south. Only the makeup remained, but in this unjust life, that’s not always enough. He taught me how to say “oops.” (Ben Carsley)

[a700hitter]

Moving the Rays to Brooklyn doesn't work because (1) you would be penalizing the Mets more than the Yankees. If you want to move another team to N.Y. I think you would pick an area north of Bronx, like Westchester or Yonkers, but the Yankees would flip out over that. Another option would be Northern N.J. In that scenario, you would be penalizing the Yankees and Mets equally. (2) The Rays aren't moving! The State of Florida has just as many people as the State of N.Y. and Florida is growing whereas N.Y. is not. The Rays have an ugly stadium and terrible attendance, but they get high TV ratings and that is important. They need a new stadium, and that'll eventually happen.

 

I would like to see the Expos return, and put in the same division with the Blue Jays to create an awesome rivalry. Las Vegas could be the site of a second expansion team but maybe Northern New Jersey would be a better choice. North Carolina is interesting too.

The reason why baseball has never returned to Brooklyn is because MLB made a deal with the Mets and Yankees to keep them in NY giving each an absolute veto right to block another franchise from coming to NY. The Yankee veto right extends for a 50 mile radius from Yankee Stadium and a 25 mile radius for the Mets. The Rays or any other team coming to NY will never be possible.

Edited July 13, 2017 by a700hitter

[mvp 78]

I remember in the early 00's a lot of people thought the Expos should move to Boston. I don't think many cities can carry 2 teams. If Chicago can't (horrible White Sox attendance), then Boston definitely can't.

[a700hitter]

I remember in the early 00's a lot of people thought the Expos should move to Boston. I don't think many cities can carry 2 teams. If Chicago can't (horrible White Sox attendance), then Boston definitely can't.

I wonder if the Red Sox also have a veto right.

[sk7326]

The reason why baseball has never returned to Brooklyn is because MLB made a deal with the Mets and Yankees to keep them in NY giving each an absolute veto right to block another franchise from coming to NY. The Yankee veto right extends for a 50 mile radius from Yankee Stadium and a 25 mile radius for the Mets. The Rays or any other team coming to NY will never be possible.

 

I noted in my realignment that the territorial monopolies would prevent it from ever happening - it is the same thing preventing Oakland from moving to San Jose which is the most natural thing in the world. Since this was a dream world, I figured I'd dream without that ground rule.

 

Obviously a San Antonio or Austin also is sensible.

[mvp 78]

I wonder if the Red Sox also have a veto right.

 

The biggest issue is TV territories. A lot of this "veto" stuff is really undefined except by the blackout policy.

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/MLB_Blackout_Areas.png/335px-MLB_Blackout_Areas.png

 

If an MLB team wanted to move to Portland, ME, they'd most likely be able to but would have to pay a certain amount to the Portland SeaDogs per rule 52 between MLB and MiLB. However, any closer to Boston and I don't see the Sox wanting to allow it. When the Nats moved from Montreal, Baltimore got financial payments to cover the lost tv revenue, but I believe that has ended by now.

 

It's a real murky situation and that's why I don't see further expansion as something that is easy to do.

[moonslav59]

Moving the Rays to Brooklyn doesn't work because (1) you would be penalizing the Mets more than the Yankees. If you want to move another team to N.Y. I think you would pick an area north of Bronx, like Westchester or Yonkers, but the Yankees would flip out over that. Another option would be Northern N.J. In that scenario, you would be penalizing the Yankees and Mets equally. (2) The Rays aren't moving! The State of Florida has just as many people as the State of N.Y. and Florida is growing whereas N.Y. is not. The Rays have an ugly stadium and terrible attendance, but they get high TV ratings and that is important. They need a new stadium, and that'll eventually happen.

 

I would like to see the Expos return, and put in the same division with the Blue Jays to create an awesome rivalry. Las Vegas could be the site of a second expansion team but maybe Northern New Jersey would be a better choice. North Carolina is interesting too.

 

Move the Rays to North Carolina. It is a baseball rabid area that deserves a shot at a big club.

 

The problem might be location. I'd try to place the stadium close enough to Charlotte but also making it easier for the rest of the state to go to a game. (Maybe off highway 85 near Harrisburg or Concord.

[sk7326]

I am okay with Tampa staying where it is - the move was about whether there was a spot where the franchise could do better ... but I am open to the idea that a new stadium could help. But I think moving to a Northeast market would be better.

 

But if you do realign - 30 or 32 teams, I much favor 4 divisions with wild cards. It goes a long way to preventing geographic accidents allowing an 83-79 team to make the postseason. Go with 12 teams and have the play in game. Elimination baseball is fun! Postseason baseball is manifestly a crapshoot - so might as well make the best entertainment product possible within reason.

 

(just port the current postseason format which is perfectly fine)

[moonslav59]

I am okay with Tampa staying where it is - the move was about whether there was a spot where the franchise could do better ... but I am open to the idea that a new stadium could help. But I think moving to a Northeast market would be better.

 

But if you do realign - 30 or 32 teams, I much favor 4 divisions with wild cards. It goes a long way to preventing geographic accidents allowing an 83-79 team to make the postseason. Go with 12 teams and have the play in game. Elimination baseball is fun! Postseason baseball is manifestly a crapshoot - so might as well make the best entertainment product possible within reason.

 

(just port the current postseason format which is perfectly fine)

 

I like the idea of doing away with the NL and AL. I know the purists shudder at the idea, but going with a totally geographic divisional allignment would create some incredible new rivalries (NYM-NYY, NYM-BOS, PHI-NYY, WAS-BAL, LAD-LAA, OAK-SFG, KC-STL, CWS-CC, CIN-CLE and on and on...).

 

I like the idea of five 6 team divisions (play 18 games vs your 5 division foes for 90 games and 3 games vs everyone else for 72 games- 3 x 24 teams).

 

You get 3 wild card teams with no play-in needed. Seed the playoffs by best record with division winners getting no special preferences for winning a division with an 84-78 record.

[notin]

The last 3 expansions were a direct result of the owners losing lawsuits to the MLBPA for collusion. Until there is another successful lawsuit, MLB will not expand...

[sk7326]

I like the idea of doing away with the NL and AL. I know the purists shudder at the idea, but going with a totally geographic divisional allignment would create some incredible new rivalries (NYM-NYY, NYM-BOS, PHI-NYY, WAS-BAL, LAD-LAA, OAK-SFG, KC-STL, CWS-CC, CIN-CLE and on and on...).

 

I like the idea of five 6 team divisions (play 18 games vs your 5 division foes for 90 games and 3 games vs everyone else for 72 games- 3 x 24 teams).

 

You get 3 wild card teams with no play-in needed. Seed the playoffs by best record with division winners getting no special preferences for winning a division with an 84-78 record.

 

Why do you want to take credit away for winning a division. A larger division is harder to win - that is reward in its own.

 

I think the geographic rivalries are cute - but ultimately rivalries come from games that matter. Also the schedule should be more balanced, not less between division and outside.

[moonslav59]

Why do you want to take credit away for winning a division. A larger division is harder to win - that is reward in its own.

 

I think the geographic rivalries are cute - but ultimately rivalries come from games that matter. Also the schedule should be more balanced, not less between division and outside.

 

If you win a division with an 84-78 record, it can't have been too hard.

 

I agree on the more balanced schedule, but for the fans and travel costs, playing more games in larger regional divisions would be a money-maker.

 

For more balance, the schedule could be set up in various ways:

 

4 games vs other division foes (2 home and 2 away or alternate 4 game series home and away year by year) 4 x 24 teams= 96 games.

This would leave 66 games for your own division foes. 4 teams x 13 games and 1 team x 14 games.

 

5 games vs other divisions (3 H + 2A alternates with 2H + 3A) 5 x 24 teams= 120 games

This leaves just 42 games vs your own 5 division rivals. 3 teams x 8 games and 2 teams x 9 games.

(Or, you could play 9 games vs all div rivals and lessen some numbers vs other teams.)

 

 

[NativeBostonian]

I am okay with Tampa staying where it is - the move was about whether there was a spot where the franchise could do better ... but I am open to the idea that a new stadium could help. But I think moving to a Northeast market would be better.

 

But if you do realign - 30 or 32 teams, I much favor 4 divisions with wild cards. It goes a long way to preventing geographic accidents allowing an 83-79 team to make the postseason. Go with 12 teams and have the play in game. Elimination baseball is fun! Postseason baseball is manifestly a crapshoot - so might as well make the best entertainment product possible within reason.

 

(just port the current postseason format which is perfectly fine)

 

As someone who lived in Tampa for 8 years, they have no fans and getting a new stadium isn’t going to change that. Driving to Tropicana Field from the airport area where I lived only took me 30 minutes. People in that area are just looking for excuses for their sorry baseball city. Besides, St. Pete isn’t going to let them go. It makes them money.

 

Then there is the funding part. People in Tampa didn’t even approve of a one cent tax for a light rail system. I can’t imagine they’d pay for a stadium.

Edited July 13, 2017 by NativeBostonian

[sk7326]

If you win a division with an 84-78 record, it can't have been too hard.

 

I agree on the more balanced schedule, but for the fans and travel costs, playing more games in larger regional divisions would be a money-maker.

 

For more balance, the schedule could be set up in various ways:

 

4 games vs other division foes (2 home and 2 away or alternate 4 game series home and away year by year) 4 x 24 teams= 96 games.

This would leave 66 games for your own division foes. 4 teams x 13 games and 1 team x 14 games.

 

5 games vs other divisions (3 H + 2A alternates with 2H + 3A) 5 x 24 teams= 120 games

This leaves just 42 games vs your own 5 division rivals. 3 teams x 8 games and 2 teams x 9 games.

(Or, you could play 9 games vs all div rivals and lessen some numbers vs other teams.)

 

 

 

Far less likely 84-78 wins an 8 team division vs a 5 or 6 team one.

[moonslav59]

As someone who lived in Tampa for 8 years, they have no fans and getting a new stadium isn’t going to change that. Driving to Tropicana Field from the airport area where I lived only took me 30 minutes. People in that area are just looking for excuses for their sorry baseball city. Besides, St. Pete isn’t going to let them go. It makes them money.

 

Then there is the funding part. People in Tampa didn’t even approve of a one cent tax for a light rail system. I can’t imagine they’d pay for a stadium.

 

The other problem is that many that live in the area are transplants that are die hard Yankee, Sox or other city teams. They will never become die-hard Rays fans. Maybe the second generation might, but that's a long wait.

[moonslav59]

Far less likely 84-78 wins an 8 team division vs a 5 or 6 team one.

 

I used 84 wins as an example.

 

I'd rather give the higher seed to a 92 win wild card team than a 90 win division champ.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Not the only Sox 3B mentionned:

 

22. Garin Cecchini, 3B, Boston Red Sox (2010, 4th Round)

 

Why We Cared: His swing was so pure, his approach so good, his makeup so pure, his stats so encouraging. He passed the numbers test. He passed the eyes test. He passed the “what people say about him” test. He taught me how to double-down

 

What Went Wrong: The power never came. The glove was never plus. The swing grew a hitch. The numbers went south, the reports went south, the rankings went south. Only the makeup remained, but in this unjust life, that’s not always enough. He taught me how to say “oops.” (Ben Carsley)

 

Oddly enough, his brother (in the Mets system) might be following a similar career path. GAVIN C. looked like a really good prospect a year or two ago but is now struggling with mediocrity in AAA.

[sk7326]

I used 84 wins as an example.

 

I'd rather give the higher seed to a 92 win wild card team than a 90 win division champ.

 

So would I - which is why fewer divisions would work!

[notin]

The other problem is that many that live in the area are transplants that are die hard Yankee, Sox or other city teams. They will never become die-hard Rays fans. Maybe the second generation might, but that's a long wait.

 

Most of the transplanted residents in that area quit reproducing decades ago..