Sox get Sale

[Bellhorn04]

Does anyone know how Wrights shoulder has been so far this offseason? I havent read anything on him. Last i knew he was still having shoulder issues at the end of the season. I wouldnt pencil him in just yet. That shoulder lingered a while. He may still have some issues. Unless of course I missed something, which wouldnt be out of the ordinary:D

 

If they don't trade Buch, Wright might be a candidate to start the year on the DL, the real one or the phantom one.

[moonslav59]

If they don't trade Buch, Wright might be a candidate to start the year on the DL, the real one or the phantom one.

 

I think it may be a little awkward having Buch and Pom in the pen. Both will have siliar roles that may not see much of a call for action with such a great rotation. I suppose one could be a one inning set-up guy, but I think you are right. We'll find a way to have one starter on the DL to start the year.

 

Remember, the DL has been changed to 10 days.

 

The side benefit of doing this would be to free up a slot for the three guys without an options remaining: Abad, Hembree and Elias. I really like Hembree, and we may want to keep a lefty around in Abad. Assuming 12 pitching slots to open the season, although I guess we could go with 13, not that we no longer have a DH-only player on the 25 man roster, here's how I see it:

 

SP1 Sale

SP2 Porcello

SP3 Price

SP4 ERod

SP5 Wright

SP6/Long Relief: Pomeranz

SP7/Long Relie: Buhholz

 

Closer: Kimbrel

RP2: Thornburg

RP3: Kelly (until C Smith returns)

RP4: Ross

RP5: Barnes

RP6: Abad

 

No Wright, Buch or Pom? Then we can keep Hembree or Elias or maybe even have Scott on the 25 man roster and DL 2 from Abad, Hembree and Elias

[Kimmi]

It's a really interesting question which of Pomeranz, Wright and E-Rod you want in your starting 5 right now. MHO is, Wright and E-Rod. If not for their own vitrues, because Pomeranz has more experience as a highly effective reliever/swingman.

 

I know no one agrees with me, but I'd start ERod in AAA, especially since he's pitching in the WBC. That will alleviate some of the roster crunch, and that also gives us a quality starter in AAA for when the inevitable injury or underperformance occurs.

[moonslav59]

I know no one agrees with me, but I'd start ERod in AAA, especially since he's pitching in the WBC. That will alleviate some of the roster crunch, and that also gives us a quality starter in AAA for when the inevitable injury or underperformance occurs.

 

Spring training will probably make the starting 5 obvious.

[Kimmi]

Spring training will probably make the starting 5 obvious.

 

You're probably right. As they say, these things have a way of working themselves out.

 

If putting ERod in AAA to start the season allows us not to have to trade away or DFA a pitcher that could help the team, then I have no problem with it. It might not be fair to ERod, but it would allow for greater depth and flexibility.

[Bellhorn04]

I know no one agrees with me, but I'd start ERod in AAA, especially since he's pitching in the WBC. That will alleviate some of the roster crunch, and that also gives us a quality starter in AAA for when the inevitable injury or underperformance occurs.

 

I don't disagree.

[moonslav59]

You're probably right. As they say, these things have a way of working themselves out.

 

If putting ERod in AAA to start the season allows us not to have to trade away or DFA a pitcher that could help the team, then I have no problem with it. It might not be fair to ERod, but it would allow for greater depth and flexibility.

 

Unless Pom and Buch are looking significantly better than ERod in ST'ing, I'd go with ERod and get creative with the DL.

[notin]

You're probably right. As they say, these things have a way of working themselves out.

 

If putting ERod in AAA to start the season allows us not to have to trade away or DFA a pitcher that could help the team, then I have no problem with it. It might not be fair to ERod, but it would allow for greater depth and flexibility.

 

Exactly. Depth - it's a good thing.

 

People make too big of a deal of the whole "fair" aspect. Hey, life isn't fair and players under high-paying contracts will have a better chance to make every team than players who are not.

[moonslav59]

I wonder how much trade value our out-of-options RP'er have: Abad, Hembree and Elias.

 

We may have to wait until ST'ing to max out the value.

 

We probably can't keep all 3, even with creative DL plans.

 

I like Hembree the most.

[cp176]

thank God that Farrell now is able to let the best players play. If E-Rod is one of our top 5 starters when the season begins, he will and should be in our starting rotation.

[southpaw777]

i dont know but hopefully he has been working on his headfirst slide technique.

 

Christ sakes man! Lets hope he NEVER is put in that position again as a PR. Dumbest move in manigerial history!

Ok, maybe that was a bit much, but you get it....

[southpaw777]

I think it may be a little awkward having Buch and Pom in the pen. Both will have siliar roles that may not see much of a call for action with such a great rotation. I suppose one could be a one inning set-up guy, but I think you are right. We'll find a way to have one starter on the DL to start the year.

 

Remember, the DL has been changed to 10 days.

 

The side benefit of doing this would be to free up a slot for the three guys without an options remaining: Abad, Hembree and Elias. I really like Hembree, and we may want to keep a lefty around in Abad. Assuming 12 pitching slots to open the season, although I guess we could go with 13, not that we no longer have a DH-only player on the 25 man roster, here's how I see it:

 

SP1 Sale

SP2 Porcello

SP3 Price

SP4 ERod

SP5 Wright

SP6/Long Relief: Pomeranz

SP7/Long Relie: Buhholz

 

Closer: Kimbrel

RP2: Thornburg

RP3: Kelly (until C Smith returns)

RP4: Ross

RP5: Barnes

RP6: Abad

 

No Wright, Buch or Pom? Then we can keep Hembree or Elias or maybe even have Scott on the 25 man roster and DL 2 from Abad, Hembree and Elias

 

I seriously doubt they gave up Espi for a middle reliever. Pom should stay in the rotation or get traded IMHO. I think Buch will be moved at some point and they will eat a prtion of it and/or add a body to get something better back? I also still havent heard anything about Wrights shoulder so he may not even be an option at the start of the season.

[southpaw777]

Exactly. Depth - it's a good thing.

 

People make too big of a deal of the whole "fair" aspect. Hey, life isn't fair and players under high-paying contracts will have a better chance to make every team than players who are not.

 

Not playing the best players has nothing to do with fair. Its just plain stupid. If ERod looks good theres zero reason to store him in AAA regardless of options.

[Slasher9]

I know no one agrees with me, but I'd start ERod in AAA, especially since he's pitching in the WBC. That will alleviate some of the roster crunch, and that also gives us a quality starter in AAA for when the inevitable injury or underperformance occurs.

 

i agree with this if everyone is healthy.

[moonslav59]

I seriously doubt they gave up Espi for a middle reliever. Pom should stay in the rotation or get traded IMHO. I think Buch will be moved at some point and they will eat a prtion of it and/or add a body to get something better back? I also still havent heard anything about Wrights shoulder so he may not even be an option at the start of the season.

 

Well, by May of this year, our 10th starter (O'Sullivan) got 4 starts, and later we had to trade for a starter (Pom), so having Pom in middle/long relief probably wouldn't last too long.

[cp176]

Not playing the best players has nothing to do with fair. Its just plain stupid. If ERod looks good theres zero reason to store him in AAA regardless of options.

 

This seems to be a damn difficult concept for some people to understand. Your best players play. That is just the way it is. All things being equal - everybody healthy - best players play. In basketball, you actually might be able to convince a kid that coming off the bench makes your team stronger by telling him that it is more important who is on the floor when the game ends as opposed to when it starts. That kid probably gets more pt than someone you choose to start. Not the same in baseball. There is nothing wrong with rewarding someone who is a better player. Being fair means running an intramural program. Don't think that flies.

[cp176]

This seems to be a damn difficult concept for some people to understand. Your best players play. That is just the way it is. All things being equal - everybody healthy - best players play. In basketball, you actually might be able to convince a kid that coming off the bench makes your team stronger by telling him that it is more important who is on the floor when the game ends as opposed to when it starts. That kid probably gets more pt than someone you choose to start. Not the same in baseball. There is nothing wrong with rewarding someone who is a better player. Being fair means running an intramural program. Don't think that flies.

 

 

But, I would add to my previous statement that if he pitches in the WBC and the Red Sox shut him down because they feel he has over worked and could jeopardize his future as a Red Sox pitcher , I am ok with that. That is my idea of nothing in life being fair. You don't always get your own way. As a pitcher, his first loyalty should be to the Boston Red Sox.

[moonslav59]

I'd say ERod is pretty close to being at the point where inning limits are not a concern.

 

He turns 24 in April, but he's been in professional baseball since age 17.

 

Here are his IP totals by age:

 

17- 66

18- 49

19- 107

20- 145

21- 120

22- 170 (122 MLB)

23- 145 (107 MLB)

 

Now, he uses a lot of pitches per inning, so these numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

Pitches per PA

4.03 ERod

3.91 Pom (with Sox)

 

3.87 League avg

 

3.83 Porcello

3.79 Wright

3.78 Buchholz

3.78 Price

 

[Emp9]

If they don't trade Buch, Wright might be a candidate to start the year on the DL, the real one or the phantom one.

 

Wright was rumored to be able to pitch in the ALCS if the Sox went that far. That was the last I heard of his progress. There was no mention of any setback as far as his shoulder was concerned, just him trying to get back into pitching form due to his long layoff of not pitching. We'll see soon enough, like always.

[Slasher9]

This seems to be a damn difficult concept for some people to understand. Your best players play. That is just the way it is. All things being equal - everybody healthy - best players play. In basketball, you actually might be able to convince a kid that coming off the bench makes your team stronger by telling him that it is more important who is on the floor when the game ends as opposed to when it starts. That kid probably gets more pt than someone you choose to start. Not the same in baseball. There is nothing wrong with rewarding someone who is a better player. Being fair means running an intramural program. Don't think that flies.

if everyone is healthy through ST how do you determine the "best players"?

are you actually stating that you would base the top 5 SPers based on Spring Training ERA/WHIP/BABIP/KW ratio?????

 

if that is the case, i dont think Pedro would have made our starting rotation in any year he was here......

[moonslav59]

Wright was rumored to be able to pitch in the ALCS if the Sox went that far. That was the last I heard of his progress. There was no mention of any setback as far as his shoulder was concerned, just him trying to get back into pitching form due to his long layoff of not pitching. We'll see soon enough, like always.

 

I was going to say the same thing. I see no reason to think Wright will not be 100% by the first day of ST'ing. Pom's injury issue may be a bigger concern.

[moonslav59]

if everyone is healthy through ST how do you determine the "best players"?

are you actually stating that you would base the top 5 SPers based on Spring Training ERA/WHIP/BABIP/KW ratio?????

 

if that is the case, i dont think Pedro would have made our starting rotation in any year he was here......

 

When you have 4 guys fighting for 2 slots, and they all are pretty close in terms of past performances, then ST'ing can influence who gets the first shot at winning and keeping a rotation slot.

 

Pedro was never on the bubble.

[moonslav59]

Agreed, but Slasher has a point.

 

If we don't trade Buch we're going to have 7 starting pitchers in the spring. The top 3 in the rotation are set, leaving Buch, Pomeranz, Wright and E-Rod for the last 2 spots.

 

So who are the "best" 2 out of those 4? Based on what? And will their performances in spring training really answer this?

 

It sounds simple, 'play your best players!'. In reality, who is pitching the best changes frequently.

 

There's really no compelling argument for any one of those 4 pitchers over another.

 

There's the strong argument that because we used our 10th starter in May this year and still had to go trade for Pom, keeping all 7 makes sense.

 

There's also the financial flexibility & roster argument that supports the idea that paying a 6 or 7 starter $13.5M while we ride the luxury tax fence makes little sense.

 

I do think if one of these 4 looks horrible in ST'ing, he'll be in AAA or on the DL, assuming no trade is made by opening day.

Edited December 14, 2016 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

There's really no compelling argument for any one of those 4 pitchers.

 

There's the strong argument that because we used our 10th starter in May this year and still had to go trade for Pom, keeping all 7 makes sense.

There's also the financial flexibility & roster argument that supports the idea that paying a 6 or 7 starter $13.5M while we ride the luxury tax fence makes little sense.

 

I do think if one of these 4 looks horrible in ST'ing, he'll be in AAA or on the DL, assuming no trade is made by opening day.

 

I actually deleted my post because it was kind of crappy LOL

 

But yes, keeping all 7 to keep the Sean O'Sullivans of the world out of the picture if possible makes a ton of sense to me. It just creates some roster issues with where you stash the extra guy or two.

[sk7326]

You're probably right. As they say, these things have a way of working themselves out.

 

If putting ERod in AAA to start the season allows us not to have to trade away or DFA a pitcher that could help the team, then I have no problem with it. It might not be fair to ERod, but it would allow for greater depth and flexibility.

 

ERod was one of their four best starters by the end of last season - he is a stock you buy. The numbers problem is solveable in more sensible ways.

[moonslav59]

ERod was one of their four best starters by the end of last season - he is a stock you buy. The numbers problem is solveable in more sensible ways.

 

Agreed.

 

Wright and Pom were both top 30 MLB pitchers in the first half. Then, they got hurt.

 

If they are healthy, I'll say their stock is high as well.

 

Buch had a nice second half as well.

 

MLB ERA- Rankings 1st Half

3 Wright 61

5 Pomeranz 62

28 Sale 80

31 Porcello

52 Price

 

2nd Half

5 Porcello

16 ERod 73

20 Sale 77

28 Price 81

 

(Buch would have placed 16th at 73, if he had enough IP.)

[mvp 78]

(Buch would have placed 16th at 73, if he had enough IP.)

 

Of course he would have. If he had more IP in the 2nd half, I bet he'd have even better numbers.

[moonslav59]

of course he would have. If he had more ip in the 2nd half, i bet he'd have even better numbers.

 

lol

[moonslav59]

Some interesting notes on the seniority of Sox players on the 40 man rsoter:

 

Seniority= only time on the Sox 40 man roster, not MLB seniority or time spent in the Sox system not on the 40 man roster.

 

38 players were added from July 2012 and after (Wright to Moreland).

34 we added after March of 2013 (JBJ).

31 were added after June of 2014 (Betts)

21 after Jan 2015 (Ross)

17 were added after the 2016 season (Kimbrel)

11 after the 2016 started (Leon)

6 after the 2016 season ended: K Martin, L Ysla, Thornburg, Sale, Rutledge & Moreland

 

Pedey has the most seniority (since 2004) followed by Buch (added in 2007)

 

Vazquez is the 4th most senior man on the Sox 40 man roster.

 

[moonslav59]

Who are the most expendable players on our current 40 man roster?

 

Here's my order:

 

Noe Ramirez

Deven Marrero

Bryce Brentz (would be higher, but we have very little OF depth)

Brandon Workman

Roenis Elias (out of options)

Fernando Abad (out of options)

Heath Hembree (out of options)

Luis Ysla

Kyle Martin

Josh Rutledge (out of options)

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by moonslav59