Sox get Sale

[moonslav59]

SSS, but in his last five games Buchholz had an ERA as a SP of 3.14. He is capable of doing that. I would not rule him out of being in the starting rotation when the season starts. Pom, Wright, and Buchholz should compete for the final opening day SP slot. It should not be handed to one of those guys.

 

Agreed. It's just how I see it right now.

 

Wright, ERod and Pom also had awesome half seasons this year.

[notin]

I am not seeing any fan reaction, just an article by a sportswriter who liked the trade. Not what you predicted/projected at all. Anyway, don't waste my time again with your BS. You went off the rails the last time, so f*** off.

 

Out of curiosity, do you post about anything other than insulting players, whining about other posters, and trying to convince people you're not doing those things.

 

By the way, kudos for typing out a whole post with making an insulting reference to Sandoval's weight. I wasn't sure you could do it...

[a700hitter]

Out of curiosity, do you post about anything other than insulting players, whining about other posters, and trying to convince people you're not doing those things.

 

By the way, kudos for typing out a whole post with making an insulting reference to Sandoval's weight. I wasn't sure you could do it...

Yep, and f*** off.

[notin]

Yep, and f*** off.

 

Be careful. Your sensitive side is showing. ..

[Jack Flap]

Yeah, um...anyway.

 

The White Sox apparently pushed for Devers as the third piece, but the Red Sox compromised by giving them Basabe and Diaz instead. That almost makes me like this deal even more...well done, Dave.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/al-notes-holliday-chapman-royals-sox.html

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Julio Pepper: Also, am I the only one who thinks the Red Sox severely overpayed for Chris Sale? If you plug in the value of the prospects they’re giving him like $160m for 3 seasons.

 

Dave Cameron: You don’t think Sale would get something like $160M for 3 years if he was an FA this winter? Maybe not quite that high, but 3/$145M wouldn’t surprise me at all. I think they paid a high price. Probably a little higher than I would have paid. But it’s not a severe overpay.

 

Dave Cameron: I probably don’t make the deal, but it’s because I think it’s a little too much.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dave-cameron-fangraphs-chat-12716-2/

This deal could backfire on the Red Sox big time. Let's say Sale continues to lose velocity and his violent delivery catches up to him. Meanwhile, let's say Kopech turns into the next N.Syndegaard (the potential is there). In that scenario, it wouldn't even matter what happens with Moncada--the Red Sox lose the deal in a big way. And if Moncada develops into something really good, the deal would be an historic fleecing that should cost Dombrowski his job.

 

I would have traded Moncada for Sale, but I would not have included Kopech, Devers, or Groome in the same trade.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Fan_since_Boggs

[southpaw777]

This deal could backfire on the Red Sox big time. Let's say Sale continues to lose velocity and his violent delivery catches up to him. Meanwhile, let's say Kopech turns into the next N.Syndegaard (the potential is there). In that scenario, it wouldn't even matter what happens with Moncada--the Red Sox lose the deal in a big way. And if Moncada develops into something really good, the deal would be an historic fleecing that should cost Dombrowski his job.

 

I would have traded Moncada for Sale, but I would not have included Kopech, Devers, or Groome in the same trade.

 

Kopech is the only player traded that I was really really high on, but we got Sale. Providing his health is good, which is hard to predict if the medicals pass, then Im good. I expect Kopech to be a dominant MLB pitcher. Gotta give to get

[cp176]

their adamant reluctance to trade Devers says a couple of things to me. 1. too much to give up 2. They like Devers for third base in the future - takes care of future need

 

oh ya - once again - Holt and Hernandez are not third basemen. they might fill a hole for a few games but that is about it.

[cp176]

If it represents winning, I don't hate it.

 

I'm still kind of digesting the trade but I sure as hell don't see it as making a huge impact on the future of this franchise. Of course the word future has a different meaning for different people. My future extends about 1-5 years. So much can change in that time period. DD has a history of success that I like. I' will miss not seeing the prospects traded developing up close but I like the fact that that we are legit for the immediate future.

[cp176]

I'm still kind of digesting the trade but I sure as hell don't see it as making a huge impact on the future of this franchise. Of course the word future has a different meaning for different people. My future extends about 1-5 years. So much can change in that time period. DD has a history of success that I like. I' will miss not seeing the prospects traded developing up close but I like the fact that that we are legit for the immediate future.

 

I should have said that it does impact our future - we have a real chance of being the best team on the field for a few years - works for me.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, um...anyway.

 

The White Sox apparently pushed for Devers as the third piece, but the Red Sox compromised by giving them Basabe and Diaz instead. That almost makes me like this deal even more...well done, Dave.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/al-notes-holliday-chapman-royals-sox.html

 

That means either Basabe & Diaz are better than I think, or we Devers is not as highly valued as I thought.

[moonslav59]

I would have traded Moncada for Sale, but I would not have included Kopech, Devers, or Groome in the same trade.

 

My suggestion of Moncada, Pomeranz (who they could flip), Swihart, Basabe and Owens would probably not have done the trick.

[moonslav59]

their adamant reluctance to trade Devers says a couple of things to me. 1. too much to give up 2. They like Devers for third base in the future - takes care of future need

 

oh ya - once again - Holt and Hernandez are not third basemen. they might fill a hole for a few games but that is about it.

 

Agreed.

[Slasher9]

Be careful. Your sensitive side is showing. ..

 

i see A700 has found a new target since i have been away. welcome to da club notin. btw - you need to get your avatar.

[Hugh2]

i see A700 has found a new target since i have been away. welcome to da club notin. btw - you need to get your avatar.

 

He kind of reminds me of softlaw.

[moonslav59]

He kind of reminds me of softlaw.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I would have traded Moncada for Sale, buto I would not have included Kopech, Devers, or Groome in the same trade.

 

My suggestion of Moncada, Pomeranz (who they could flip), Swihart, Basabe and Owens would probably not have done the trick.

 

Clearly that would not have been enough. You don't get a top flight 27 year old #1 starter under contract for 3 years for the players you are suggesting. The pattern of trading away so many of our top prospects is disturbing but as said you have to give up to receive and getting a guy like Sale is a rare opportunity.

[a700hitter]

i see A700 has found a new target since i have been away. welcome to da club notin. btw - you need to get your avatar.

Read the threads. He deserved it. And BTW when new jackoff posters come here they often target me. Not so much in the last year or so. I pay no attention to new posters. Unless you have a couple of hundred posts, I am likely not to notice you. He was out of line, so f*** him. Edited December 8, 2016 by a700hitter

[jad]

Read the threads. He deserved it. And BTW when new jackoff posters come here they often target me. Not so much in the last year or so. I pay no attention to new posters. Unless you have a couple of hundred posts, I am likely not to notice you. He was out of line, so f*** him.

 

"Target" you? I think it's far more likely that your worst paranoid fears are true: "new" posters don't give a crap about you.

[a700hitter]

"Target" you? I think it's far more likely that your worst paranoid fears are true: "new" posters don't give a crap about you.

Thank you.

[Dojji]

Yeah, um...anyway.

 

The White Sox apparently pushed for Devers as the third piece, but the Red Sox compromised by giving them Basabe and Diaz instead. That almost makes me like this deal even more...well done, Dave.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/al-notes-holliday-chapman-royals-sox.html

 

You know, I have to think that this may not be all that unusual. A new GM comes in with different priorities of exactly which kinds of prospects he likes to favor, so he comes into an organization whose top prospects favor a different style and he doesn't regard them as highly as his predecessor, and since they have value but don't match his favored style and therefore are not untouchable, he trades them for the players he does value.

[Slasher9]

yeah. that and DD always blows up the farm. some of us have been saying this from day 1 of DD's hiring. it was only a matter of time before he gutted ours. like i said earlier...at least this time we actually got an Ace for our prospects.

[a700hitter]

There is more fertilizer on the farm than anything else. He'll just need to get some fresh s*** to pile around the few plants that take hold.

[moonslav59]

There is more fertilizer on the farm than anything else. He'll just need to get some fresh s*** to pile around the few plants that take hold.

 

Sounds like you're an expert on spreading s***.

[TylerD]

In case I missed it what will the rotation look like then this year?

[Emp9]

Lol

[Emp9]

Acquiring Sale, I would like to think, takes some pressure off Price & Porcello in big game post-season situations of being "The ACE". Maybe they can relax next time around and just pitch.

[moonslav59]

Acquiring Sale, I would like to think, takes some pressure off Price & Porcello in big game post-season situations of being "The ACE". Maybe they can relax next time around and just pitch.

 

I hope so. One problem might be how does Sale handle the opening game of the playoffs?

 

He's never been there.

[Hugh2]

Sounds like you're an expert on spreading s***.

 

People make it sound like it's so easy to build a farm system. Like you go down to the store and buy prospects....let me see I'll take 5 top 100 prospects, lets make 2 of them top 25, three pitchers and two hitters.

 

I get the argument that we are going for it, and I agree that there is a time to spend and make those moves but fans have every right to be concerned with the future. Of all the moves DD has made, I like this one the absolute 100% best when weighed out on a case by case basis, what has had me more concerned is the overall depletion of the farm.

 

I know hindsight is 20/20 but I'd love to have the Pom/Espinoza deal back.

[moonslav59]

Some points on Sale....

 

Sale has been in the top 6 Cy Young votes for 5 straight years.

 

He's led the AL in HBP the last two years.

 

He's never had an ERA over 3.41.

 

Since 2012, among pitchers with 1000+ IP, Sale places...

 

2nd in ERA- at 74 behind only Kershaw (Scherzer 76, Price 78, Felix 79)

2nd in xFIP- at 75

4th in WHIP at 1.06 (just 0.01 behind Scherzer and Bumgarner)

3rd K-BB% at 22.3% (behind Kershaw & Scherzer)

4th in WAR at 26.2 (just behind Price at 26.4)