A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Nick]

********! The Governor's Cup is where Legends are made!!!!

 

I'll take 6 IP, 2 R, 10K, 0BB...Beats the f*** out of Thornburg stat line....

[User Name]

I was speaking to ST'ing numbers and data.

 

Of course ST'ing improves conditioning, sharpens mechanics and skills and are sometimes observable, but players often look lost in ST'ing then start off the season on fire and vice versa. I just don't pay much attention to small sample size ST'ing numbers that are not all against true ML talent.

 

Again, that depends on context, and we're back to the original statement. You watch a guy get hammered and display extremely poor control and you immediately think "something's wrong". That's the only way for us outside the industry to reach conclusions that are readily apparent to a team's coaching staff. The opposite can also be true, with a guy coming off a big injury raking, you can gleam from the box score that he's recovered nicely. Sandoval is a good example of this.

[mvp 78]

Again, that depends on context, and we're back to the original statement. You watch a guy get hammered and display extremely poor control and you immediately think "something's wrong". That's the only way for us outside the industry to reach conclusions that are readily apparent to a team's coaching staff. The opposite can also be true, with a guy coming off a big injury raking, you can gleam from the box score that he's recovered nicely. Sandoval is a good example of this.

 

Yup. He's showing a lot more range at 3b and his hitting from the left side is looking better than it has since he's been here.

[sk7326]

Again, that depends on context, and we're back to the original statement. You watch a guy get hammered and display extremely poor control and you immediately think "something's wrong". That's the only way for us outside the industry to reach conclusions that are readily apparent to a team's coaching staff. The opposite can also be true, with a guy coming off a big injury raking, you can gleam from the box score that he's recovered nicely. Sandoval is a good example of this.

 

Right. This is especially true with pitching. We don't know what the game plan was. (BTW: this extends to leaning too hard on minor league stats generally) Winning is not a primary objective. A pitcher might get lit up, but if the directive was "I want you to throw 35 changeups, 30 curveballs, and don't worry about blasting the fastball too much" - then that's what you have to lean on.

[Nick]

It appears Sale, Porcello and E Rod are ready to go. Assuming no near future set backs, Wright looks to be on track.

 

By the way, I've trashed Clay B as much as anyone on this board. But looks like a he had a decent outing vs Yankees yesterday. His line was 5 IP, 1 R (HR), 5H, 2B, 1K.

 

I still think the sox did the right thing. I wish him well. I just didn't like the roller coaster ride that he too us.

[Spudboy]

It appears Sale, Porcello and E Rod are ready to go. Assuming no near future set backs, Wright looks to be on track.

 

By the way, I've trashed Clay B as much as anyone on this board. But looks like a he had a decent outing vs Yankees yesterday. His line was 5 IP, 1 R (HR), 5H, 2B, 1K.

 

I still think the sox did the right thing. I wish him well. I just didn't like the roller coaster ride that he too us.

 

I have no malice for Buch. He drove me nuts much of the time. Other times I was wicked excited to see him take the mound. The times when he had wipe-out stuff including that insane 12-6 hook.

 

I wish him well in Philly.

[sk7326]

It appears Sale, Porcello and E Rod are ready to go. Assuming no near future set backs, Wright looks to be on track.

 

By the way, I've trashed Clay B as much as anyone on this board. But looks like a he had a decent outing vs Yankees yesterday. His line was 5 IP, 1 R (HR), 5H, 2B, 1K.

 

I still think the sox did the right thing. I wish him well. I just didn't like the roller coaster ride that he too us.

 

Buch is what he always was - a tease.

 

It was why he was annoying, why the Sox could keep him cheap and why I could not quit him.

 

If he ever "figured it out" - but that's a big if, and the world has been waiting a decade for it.

[Fisk]

Buch was a big part of 2013 for the 1 st half of the season he was about the best pitcher in baseball.

[moonslav59]

I'm glad Buch is gone, even with all our starter injuries.

 

The $13M will come in handy.

[S5Dewey]

My problem isn't with Buch being gone or the money we now have to spend. My problem is that we lost the ten or so wins and 15 - 20 starts he took with him.

[Bellhorn04]

As much as I liked Buch, he was a huge disappointment last year, blowing his last chance with us, really. And for the second time in 4 years he forced the team to make a deadline trade to get another starter.

[moonslav59]

My problem isn't with Buch being gone or the money we now have to spend. My problem is that we lost the ten or so wins and 15 - 20 starts he took with him.

 

Maybe 15-20 starts. Maybe mostly bad starts.

 

Too many maybes was his downfall.

[S5Dewey]

Maybe 15-20 starts. Maybe mostly bad starts.

 

Too many maybes was his downfall.

 

Or maybe mostly good starts. You don't know what you're getting with any pitcher. The problem with Buchholz wasn't his bad starts - the problem was that he couldn't stay on the field.

 

I don't find that $13M for a pitcher who has the stuff Buch has to be an outrageous salary in today's market.

 

As I said, I understand the need to lower the salaries for LT reasons but that was back when we thought we had a surplus of starters. That situation has now changed and IMO that trade (for a AA 2nd baseman who will never see the majors) doesn't look as good now as it did then - and the trade itself didn't look good to me then!

 

DD should have gotten more than that for a player with a + WAR. In essence he traded a player who was more valuable than a replacement Major League player for a player who may never see AAA, let alone the majors.

[User Name]

They got rid of Buchholz to clear salary.

[moonslav59]

They got rid of Buchholz to clear salary.

 

Yup, and I'm hopeful when we spend that money saved, people will like who we got better than Buch.

[User Name]

Sale, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright looks pretty damn good right about now. Feeling a lot better about this SP group than I was a couple days ago.

[mvp 78]

Sale, Porcello, Rodriguez, Wright looks pretty damn good right about now. Feeling a lot better about this SP group than I was a couple days ago.

 

I would have felt great about it if we had the 200 innings horse ready to go too.

[User Name]

Hopefully he doesn't take too long to come back.

[mvp 78]

Hopefully he doesn't take too long to come back.

 

Who is back first: Price or our moderator?

[User Name]

You know the answer to that.

[mvp 78]

You know the answer to that.

 

So we should just enjoy our final week of vacation from our moderation overlord?

[Fisk]

That's a solid top 4 with price probably back in May.

[moonslav59]

That's a solid top 4 with price probably back in May.

 

Pretty amazing to be able to still be able to put that 4 out there with a $30M pitcher on the DL.

[Kimmi]

My problem isn't with Buch being gone or the money we now have to spend. My problem is that we lost the ten or so wins and 15 - 20 starts he took with him.

 

I understood the financial desire to trade Buch, but my preference all along would have been to keep him.

[Nick]

I understood the financial desire to trade Buch, but my preference all along would have been to keep him.

 

I'm sorry....but why in the hell would you keep a $13.5M, 7th starter? I just don't get it.

 

I'm glad all of you are not running the Sox.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm sorry....but why in the hell would you keep a $13.5M, 7th starter? I just don't get it.

 

Why? Because you can never have enough pitching, of course.

[Fisk]

Why? Because you can never have enough pitching, of course.

 

Would have liked to keep Buch, but think it was more important to reset the tax.

[Spudboy]

I understood the financial desire to trade Buch, but my preference all along would have been to keep him.

 

I have wanted to move on from Buch for over two years. But this year I would have been inclined to keep him because this team just does not have many good options at 6, 7, 8.

 

I guess the Sox brass felt otherwise.

[moonslav59]

I have wanted to move on from Buch for over two years. But this year I would have been inclined to keep him because this team just does not have many good options at 6, 7, 8....

 

We have a pretty good 6th starter (if healthy), but I really don't think we had better 6, 7, and 8 starters last year or 2015.

[FredLynn]

We have a pretty good 6th starter (if healthy), but I really don't think we had better 6, 7, and 8 starters last year or 2015.

 

We are going to need one more potentially decent SP. What's Fister up to nowadays?