A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Fisk]

At the time of the trade, we were 50-38 and 2 games up in the division.

 

Seems we were doing pretty good despite the fact that we had these numbers from our 4 through 9 starters:

 

3-9 5.91 Buch (13 GS)

2-0 8.46 Kelly (6)

1-3 8.59 ERod (6)

2-0 6.75 O'Sullivan (4)

0-0 5.11 Owens (3)

0-1 15.88 Elias (1)

 

No doubt, these numbers were frightening, while Pomeranz had put up great numbers in the first half of 2016, but we didn't "have to" do anything. Pomeranz's second half performance proved we didn't, and yes that is hindsight, but I still think we didn't need to try and find a number 3 type starter. A one year fifth starter rental was an option as well as doing nothing but hope Buch or ERod would rebound.

It's easy now to say we didn't have to do anything after the fact, at that point in the season it was clear we needed to make a trade, you could not count on Buch and Erod rebounding.

 

Pom actually gave us some very valuable start in August that could have gone to Elias, Osullivan or Owens, which would not have been ideal.

[moonslav59]

It's easy now to say we didn't have to do anything after the fact, at that point in the season it was clear we needed to make a trade, you could not count on Buch and Erod rebounding.

 

Pom actually gave us some very valuable start in August that could have gone to Elias, Osullivan or Owens, which would not have been ideal.

 

Again, it's NOT AFTER THE FACT.

 

I despised the trade from the first minute.

[moonslav59]

Let's give us five starters for now.

 

Is our option after those five really the WORST in MLB? Are we that bad?

 

I'm not so sure Kendrick, Johnson, Owens and Elias are even bottom tier (16 or worse) 7 through 10 starters in MLB.

 

Not many teams have quality deeper than starter 4 or 5. We have maybe one of MLB's best 6th starter (if healthy) and 7 through 10 are probably pretty close to other teams.

[Spudboy]

Again, it's NOT AFTER THE FACT.

 

I despised the trade from the first minute.

 

Yes you did. We never heard the end of it.

 

People here can have a memory of convenience.

[cp176]

Of course at that time we needed a starter, we had Porcello, Price and Wright and some really bad starts from everybody else. We stayed ahead of the market for Pom. The return on Rich Hill was even worse. Beane was also asking for Espi for Hill , an upcoming free agent who was injured. for it to work out for us Pom has to stay healthy, but Espi is a long way from being a major league pitcher and a lot of factors can impede his development.

 

I'm not ready to throw this kid under the bus. His health obviously is a concern going forward. He has a great arm and it is way to early to give up on him.

[Nick]

Again, it's NOT AFTER THE FACT.

 

I despised the trade from the first minute.

 

You hated the trade and we get it. But I think you're lying to yourself if you thought we should have done NOTHING. That's what is meant by AFTER THE FACT.

[Fisk]

You hated the trade and we get it. But I think you're lying to yourself if you thought we should have done NOTHING. That's what is meant by AFTER THE FACT.

 

That also is what I was saying, no way did they not need to acquire a starter.

[Fisk]

I'm not ready to throw this kid under the bus. His health obviously is a concern going forward. He has a great arm and it is way to early to give up on him.

 

I agree.

[S5Dewey]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

[Nick]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

 

So true.

 

Kendricks may get shelled when he pitches during regular season but he has mowed down the opponents that he came across in ST.

 

There's no denying that he has had command of his pitches. More than what we can say for many of our pitchers.

[cp176]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

 

That my friend is a great observation!

[moonslav59]

You hated the trade and we get it. But I think you're lying to yourself if you thought we should have done NOTHING. That's what is meant by AFTER THE FACT.

 

I never said "we should have done nothing", but I am saying it was a viable option.

 

My position was to get a serviceable 5th starter or go for an ace (like Sale or Quintana)... not overpay for something in between. I'd have preferred nothing over the trade we made, and I made that very clear at the time, and when we had the chance to reverse the trade after the trade deadline was past. That is proof that I preferred nothing over this trade. It does not mean doing nothing was my first choice. I posted many times my ideas of what kind of trade I preferred. I'm not sure the CWS were ready for a big trade last summer, and I guess we'll never know, but I think they'd have made the trade with Espi instead of Kopech (or maybe with both going to Chicago with Basabe and Diaz staying here).

 

I actually liked Pomeranz and was happy he had 2.5 years of team control, but I still hated the trade more out of my view that trading a guy like Espi should only occur as part of a larger package to get an ace- not a guy with just a few months of great pitching.

[User Name]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

 

Depends on context.

[moonslav59]

I don't think ST'ing numbers mean all that much in any context, except to reveal if a questionable player is healthy or not.

[Wade Boggs]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

 

 

The only thing I look at from spring training is.....

 

 

Players getting in shape for the real games.

 

Players who are injured getting their form back.

 

Battles for spots if any

 

Plus that one surprise in camp . The kid or man who makes the team , when they said was no chance.

[User Name]

I don't think ST'ing numbers mean all that much in any context, except to reveal if a questionable player is healthy or not.

 

What's more important than health?

[moonslav59]

What's more important than health?

 

Not much, really, and that's why ST'ing has very little value in any context, except to see if a player has recovered from a previous injury.

[moonslav59]

From MLBTR...

 

Latest On David Price

By Jeff Todd | March 20, 2017 at 7:48pm CDT

 

Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski provided an update on the health of key lefty David Price, as Evan Drellich of CSNNE.com reports. While the club’s top baseball executive emphasized that there’s still no clear timeline, Drellich explains that the current trajectory makes it seem unlikely that Price will be available before the calendar flips to May.

 

Price has been dealing with a somewhat nebulous elbow issue, though he has already been cleared of the need for surgery. Today’s update comes amid continued uncertainty — publicly, at least — regarding Price’s outlook, and as the organization continues to looking to bolster their depth

 

The club is obviously taking the long view here, with Price set to play an important role in 2017 and for many years beyond. While Dombrowski said that he believes the team “could have pushed [Price] a little bit further at this point,” he stressed the need “to take our time” with the veteran southpaw.

 

That said, the broader news seems to be positive. Dombrowski said he believes that Price “will be fine, based upon what the doctors have told me [and] what David feels.” Though it’s still not quite clear what caused the elbow discomfort, Dombrowski said he suspects that Price was throwing hard early on, owing to offseason workouts that “really loosened up his hip” and left him working “free and easy.”

 

As for the next steps, that remains unclear. But the team could get some answers tomorrow, when Price is slated to be examined by the club’s head orthopedist, Dr. Peter Asnis. “So based on that, on how he feels, what the next phase will become and when that initiates more throwing with some intensity, I don’t have that start date,” said manager John Farrell.

[Slasher9]

Just an observation, maybe appropos exactly nothing...

 

Isn't it amazing how Spring Training and small sample size stats don't mean anything when a player is doing well in ST, but when a player is doing poorly those stats are everything?

lol. so true my friend. so very true.

[sk7326]

lol. so true my friend. so very true.

 

The most important thing about spring training is that it helps the economy of those cities - that's about it.

[Emp9]

Never heard of a Head Orthopedist....

 

 

Oh, a head Orthopedist.

[cp176]

The only thing I look at from spring training is.....

 

 

Players getting in shape for the real games.

 

Players who are injured getting their form back.

 

Battles for spots if any

 

Plus that one surprise in camp . The kid or man who makes the team , when they said was no chance.

 

I think that this represents quite a bit!

[User Name]

Not much, really, and that's why ST'ing has very little value in any context, except to see if a player has recovered from a previous injury.

 

So the context of player health, conditioning and mechanics is no context?

[Spudboy]

So the context of player health, conditioning and mechanics is no context?

 

Pedroia in a spot with Millar just said that ST is good for getting timing back.

 

I would add that players need to practice their skills as well.

[moonslav59]

So the context of player health, conditioning and mechanics is no context?

 

I was speaking to ST'ing numbers and data.

 

Of course ST'ing improves conditioning, sharpens mechanics and skills and are sometimes observable, but players often look lost in ST'ing then start off the season on fire and vice versa. I just don't pay much attention to small sample size ST'ing numbers that are not all against true ML talent.

[Nick]

So you don't think its significant what Sale did today? All because it's ST?

 

I don't know about you but I'm going to enjoy watching Sale pitch this year.

[Bellhorn04]

So you don't think its significant what Sale did today? All because it's ST?

 

I don't know about you but I'm going to enjoy watching Sale pitch this year.

 

It matters that his velocity and stamina are both good at this point. Things like that start to matter a bit more toward the end of spring games, I think.

 

Really it's just raw spring training numbers that don't mean that much. There's stuff that matters to the players and the coaches though.

[Emp9]

It matters that his velocity and stamina are both good at this point. Things like that start to matter a bit more toward the end of spring games, I think.

 

Really it's just raw spring training numbers that don't mean that much. There's stuff that matters to the players and the coaches though.

 

********! The Governor's Cup is where Legends are made!!!!

[Nick]

From MLBTR...

 

Latest On David Price

By Jeff Todd | March 20, 2017 at 7:48pm CDT

 

Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski provided an update on the health of key lefty David Price, as Evan Drellich of CSNNE.com reports. While the club’s top baseball executive emphasized that there’s still no clear timeline, Drellich explains that the current trajectory makes it seem unlikely that Price will be available before the calendar flips to May.

 

Price has been dealing with a somewhat nebulous elbow issue, though he has already been cleared of the need for surgery. Today’s update comes amid continued uncertainty — publicly, at least — regarding Price’s outlook, and as the organization continues to looking to bolster their depth

 

The club is obviously taking the long view here, with Price set to play an important role in 2017 and for many years beyond. While Dombrowski said that he believes the team “could have pushed [Price] a little bit further at this point,” he stressed the need “to take our time” with the veteran southpaw.

 

That said, the broader news seems to be positive. Dombrowski said he believes that Price “will be fine, based upon what the doctors have told me [and] what David feels.” Though it’s still not quite clear what caused the elbow discomfort, Dombrowski said he suspects that Price was throwing hard early on, owing to offseason workouts that “really loosened up his hip” and left him working “free and easy.”

 

As for the next steps, that remains unclear. But the team could get some answers tomorrow, when Price is slated to be examined by the club’s head orthopedist, Dr. Peter Asnis. “So based on that, on how he feels, what the next phase will become and when that initiates more throwing with some intensity, I don’t have that start date,” said manager John Farrell.

 

Quite frankly, they have no idea....Price can go out and blow out his elbow tomorrow....all speculation

 

"Drew Pomeranz suffers another injury" - 2 days ago

"Drew Pomeranz blames triceps tightness on altered mechanics" - yesterday

 

Boston Herald Headlines.

[moonslav59]

So you don't think its significant what Sale did today? All because it's ST?

 

I don't know about you but I'm going to enjoy watching Sale pitch this year.

 

I didn't need to see anything Sale does this ST'ing to know he is going to be enjoyable to watch.

 

We got Chris "Freakin' Sale!!!!