A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Kimmi]

And I never said that he was lazy or didn't care. And for the record, I never called him a "fat lazy slob" just a fat slob. I never impugned his character, just his weight which directly affects his performance. You need to stop attributing to me your own preconceived prejudices about being fat. I don't agree with any of them.

 

Look up the definition of the word 'slob'.

[Kimmi]

But he is a fat slob.

 

He is fat. Whether he is a slob or not is another question.

[Kimmi]

It's going to suck if the season is delayed. I'm already jonesing for Red Sox Baseball.

 

Rich guys arguing with other rich guys over money is sickening.

 

It sounds like the two sides will reach an agreement, just perhaps not before the current CBA expires.

 

They won't delay the season. I won't allow it.

[Spudboy]

It sounds like the two sides will reach an agreement, just perhaps not before the current CBA expires.

 

They won't delay the season. I won't allow it.

 

Lulz

[Kimmi]

Exactly. The days of Boston being a hard place to play in are long gone.

 

I think passionate fans everywhere will pretty much react the same. However, I think, though I really don't know for sure, that Boston has a larger population of really hardcore fans, and I also think that the media in Boston is tougher on the Sox players than the media in other cities. In other words, I still think Boston is a tougher place to play for some athletes.

[a700hitter]

Look up the definition of the word 'slob'.

I looked up the definition and like many words, "slob" has more than one meaning. I was using the second definition of "slob": "an ordinary person Edited November 30, 2016 by a700hitter

[cp176]

That quote does nothing of the sort. So you are correct he is not comparing the two situations.

 

He is referring to the capacity with which the Red Sox organization will stand by their players, and cited Lester as an example...

 

You are his interpreter right?

[cp176]

I have a saying that I use when there's something I know nothing about that someone is trying to explain to me. I say, "Talk to me like I'm ten years old". Since you need some interpretation of what I posted I'll talk to you like you're ten years old.

 

I am comparing the two only in that the Red Sox organization stood behind Lester during his illness giving him the full weight of their organization. Therefore it's probably safe to assume that they do the same for any player with issues that concern the player's health and/or their development. Lester took advantage of the help offered. The question now is whether Sandoval will.

 

I don't know John Lester, Pablo Sandoval, or any member of the Red Sox FO, but if we're going to confine our discussions to only what we each have personal knowledge of this is going to be a pretty dead forum.

 

 

For the record - I do not like the condescension. I obviously have much more respect for the intelligence of the average 10 year old than you do. Do you know that Sandoval has an eating disorder? I don't. If he does, I assure you that the Red Sox would support him if he were to seek treatment. It does not change the fact that even mentioning the two situations in the same piece of writing is beyond ridiculous. Understand please that this is just my opinion and I do not live in a politically correct world.

[S5Dewey]

For the record - I do not like the condescension. I obviously have much more respect for the intelligence of the average 10 year old than you do. Do you know that Sandoval has an eating disorder? I don't. If he does, I assure you that the Red Sox would support him if he were to seek treatment. It does not change the fact that even mentioning the two situations in the same piece of writing is beyond ridiculous. Understand please that this is just my opinion and I do not live in a politically correct world.

 

That's fine with me because I took offense at the obtusiveness (if that's a word). For a person who doesn't live in a PC world you sure are asking for a lot of PC from me.

[cp176]

That's fine with me because I took offense at the obtusiveness (if that's a word). For a person who doesn't live in a PC world you sure are asking for a lot of PC from me.

 

No not really. i just did to you what people in that world tend to do to others. I'll work on that obtrusiveness thing for you whatever it might mean.

[S5Dewey]

No not really. i just did to you what people in that world tend to do to others. I'll work on that obtrusiveness thing for you whatever it might mean.

 

The reason you don't understand is because you're responding to the wrong word. Here, let me help you with that:

 

Obtuse = "Not quick or sharp in perception". Obtuse is is the root of the word "obtusiveness" which I used and asked if it's really a word.*

Obtruse = "Having a disposition to impose one's self or one's opinions on others".*

*Webster's Universal College Dictionary

 

Maybe it was a simple misunderstanding, or maybe you're just obtuse.

[moonslav59]

NOV. 28, 7:07pm: Despite the apparent concession from the ownership side on the international draft, the “desired effect” of “moving talks forward” has yet to occur, Rosenthal adds on Twitter.

 

NOV. 29, 7:04pm: Following Olney’s report that the competitive balance tax is the “last big hurdle” to be cleared, Rosenthal reports (Twitter links) that the owners have proposed forfeiting draft picks as the penalty for going over the luxury tax limit, though the MLBPA is sensitive “sensitive to any adjustment that would cause [the] threshold to act as [a] de facto salary cap.” MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets that there’s some growing optimism about a deal being reached before the 12:01am ET deadline on Thursday.

 

10:45pm: Rosenthal tweets a quote from someone connected to the CBA talks: “There is very positive dialogue right now. More meetings to come tonight.”

[Nick]

NOV. 28, 7:07pm: Despite the apparent concession from the ownership side on the international draft, the “desired effect” of “moving talks forward” has yet to occur, Rosenthal adds on Twitter.

 

NOV. 29, 7:04pm: Following Olney’s report that the competitive balance tax is the “last big hurdle” to be cleared, Rosenthal reports (Twitter links) that the owners have proposed forfeiting draft picks as the penalty for going over the luxury tax limit, though the MLBPA is sensitive “sensitive to any adjustment that would cause [the] threshold to act as [a] de facto salary cap.” MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets that there’s some growing optimism about a deal being reached before the 12:01am ET deadline on Thursday.

 

10:45pm: Rosenthal tweets a quote from someone connected to the CBA talks: “There is very positive dialogue right now. More meetings to come tonight.”

 

Nothing gets done until near a deadline. Human nature.

[S5Dewey]

NOV. 28, 7:07pm: Despite the apparent concession from the ownership side on the international draft, the “desired effect” of “moving talks forward” has yet to occur, Rosenthal adds on Twitter.

 

NOV. 29, 7:04pm: Following Olney’s report that the competitive balance tax is the “last big hurdle” to be cleared, Rosenthal reports (Twitter links) that the owners have proposed forfeiting draft picks as the penalty for going over the luxury tax limit, though the MLBPA is sensitive “sensitive to any adjustment that would cause [the] threshold to act as [a] de facto salary cap.” MLB Network’s Jon Morosi tweets that there’s some growing optimism about a deal being reached before the 12:01am ET deadline on Thursday.

 

10:45pm: Rosenthal tweets a quote from someone connected to the CBA talks: “There is very positive dialogue right now. More meetings to come tonight.”

 

I'm not surprised. I did some negotiating of labor contracts back in my working life and more gets done in the last 48 hours before a deadline than in the preceding weeks.

[moonslav59]

It could be a big factor to the Sox, if they issue draft pick penalties for going over the luxury limit.

 

That might be one reason the Sox are avoiding any signings until after the agreement is made.

 

I think they do away with the QO and lost picks for signing players.

 

I think they should keep draft comp picks for teams losing top players.

 

I'd like an international draft idea, but I realize it would hurt the Sox in the long run. Maybe they could just combine international with the amateur draft. (They won't.)

 

I'm hoping they raise the luxury tax to $210M not $200 as reported. That might be a compromise for attaching draft pick penalties for going over.

[moonslav59]

soxprospects.com has us with 38 players on the 40 man roster. Assuming we acquire 3 or more players, who do you think gets DFA'd (or traded)?

 

We also may want to add a player or two from the Rule 5 list:

 

Danny Bethea, Ty Buttrey, Jamie Callahan, Carlos Coste, Ryan Court, Allen Craig, Jacob Dahlstrand, Jake Drehoff, Jeff Driskel, Jeffry Fernandez, Pat Goetze, Reed Gragnani, Taylor Grover, Justin Haley, Juan Hernandez, Dedgar Jimenez, Raiwinson Lameda, Anyelo LeClerc, Tzu-Wei Lin, Deiner Lopez, Austin Maddox, Mike McCarthy, Daniel McGrath, Simon Mercedes, Mike Meyers, Mike Miller, Edgar Olmos, Yankory Pimentel, Tim Roberson, Javier Rodriguez, Jake Romanski, Dioscar Romero, Ramses Rosario, Jose Sermo, Teddy Stankiewicz, Aneury Tavarez, German Taveras, JT Watkins, Jordan Weems, Jantzen Witte

 

I know it might depend on what position the players we acquire play, but based on value, who is the first to go?

 

Player options remaining

 

Brentz 0

Holaday 0

W Jerez 2

N Ramirez 1

D Marerro 1

Workman 0 (probably able to trade for a non-40 man roster player)

Abad 0 (probably able to trade for a non-40 man roster player)

Elias 0 (probably able to trade for a non-40 man roster player)

 

 

 

 

[cp176]

The reason you don't understand is because you're responding to the wrong word. Here, let me help you with that:

 

Obtuse = "Not quick or sharp in perception". Obtuse is is the root of the word "obtusiveness" which I used and asked if it's really a word.*

Obtruse = "Having a disposition to impose one's self or one's opinions on others".*

*Webster's Universal College Dictionary

 

Maybe it was a simple misunderstanding, or maybe you're just obtuse.

 

didn't have my glasses sorry about that. i think that i see things quite clearly with respect to where you are coming from now. you probably are right about me not being very sharp or even very perceptive.

[a700hitter]

didn't have my glasses sorry about that. i think that i see things quite clearly with respect to where you are coming from now. you probably are right about me not being very sharp or even very perceptive.

You are one of the sharpest guys here.

[cp176]

ty my friend - for the record, I obviously am with you when it comes to Sandoval. Before he gets much tlc in New England he needs to earn his way. If in the eyes of some, we are judged to be a little different because of the way we treat many pampered professional athletes, I am sure glad that I am for the northeast. What I really believe is that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the fan bases of any really successful franchises. I will say that we have been spoiled by the athletic successes many of our teams enjoy on a yearly basis. On my way to Florida.

[a700hitter]

ty my friend - for the record, I obviously am with you when it comes to Sandoval. Before he gets much tlc in New England he needs to earn his way. If in the eyes of some, we are judged to be a little different because of the way we treat many pampered professional athletes, I am sure glad that I am for the northeast. What I really believe is that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the fan bases of any really successful franchises. I will say that we have been spoiled by the athletic successes many of our teams enjoy on a yearly basis. On my way to Florida.

Enjoy the golf!

[moonslav59]

CBA approved.

 

Luxury Tax: $195M this year, then 197, 206 and 208.

(That means the Sox are about $10M from the line.)

A huge tax of 60-70% for teams that go way over the limit with rates going as high as 90% for "greatly exceeding" the limit.

 

Roster Size: stays at 25.

 

QO: still working it out...maybe a lost pick for signing a player to over a certain amount. Another report says like now but no loss of first rounders starting next winter.

 

International: No draft but with a hard spending cap.

 

[moonslav59]

Will we look to dump some salary to avoid paying a lot in luxury tax?

 

Pablo?

 

Buchholz?

 

HanRam?

 

 

[Nick]

Will we look to dump some salary to avoid paying a lot in luxury tax?

 

Pablo?

 

Buchholz?

 

HanRam?

 

 

 

Buchholtz is the best candidate. I serious doubt Sox can recoup $13M on an annual value from Pablo and Hanley. Pablo maybe $5M per year and Hanley $10M per year.

 

We need Hanley.

 

We simply need to do with make shift bullpen and hope that no starter (Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright and E Rod) gets hurt. We don't need to sign anyone.

We can trade away some surplus for relievers.

 

IF ITS OUR INTENT TO STAY BELOW THE LUXURY TAX.

[notin]

Will we look to dump some salary to avoid paying a lot in luxury tax?

 

Pablo?

 

Buchholz?

 

HanRam?

 

 

 

The easiest solution would be to DFA Sandoval and remove him from the 40 man roster like Castillo and Craig. No one will claim him.

 

A distinct possibility is a trade of Buchholz, who, if the Sox hadn't picked up his option, would be the best free agent starting pitcher this year after 36yo Rich Hill....

[notin]

Buchholtz is the best candidate. I serious doubt Sox can recoup $13M on an annual value from Pablo and Hanley. Pablo maybe $5M per year and Hanley $10M per year.

 

We need Hanley.

 

We simply need to do with make shift bullpen and hope that no starter (Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Wright and E Rod) gets hurt. We don't need to sign anyone.

We can trade away some surplus for relievers.

 

IF ITS OUR INTENT TO STAY BELOW THE LUXURY TAX.

 

Th he biggest surplus on the Sox is probably relievers...

[harmony]

The easiest solution would be to DFA Sandoval and remove him from the 40 man roster like Castillo and Craig. No one will claim him.

Interesting solution. I suspect the players union would like to address that issue in the future as Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig find themselves in purgatory because no trade partner is likely to take on the full salary and any salary paid by the Red Sox in a trade would count against the luxury tax in the likely event either lands on a 40-man roster.

[Spudboy]

Poor Castillo and Craig.

 

I wish that I had their problems.

[notin]

Interesting solution. I suspect the players union would like to address that issue in the future as Rusney Castillo and Allen Craig find themselves in purgatory because no trade partner is likely to take on the full salary and any salary paid by the Red Sox in a trade would count against the luxury tax in the likely event either lands on a 40-man roster.

 

With what aspect of the situations of Craig and Castillo would the MLBPA disapprove? Castillo and Craig are both receiving every penny they were promised, and the primary reason neither is on any MLB roster is related to their performance. And as neither has really even performed all that well at the minor league level, there is no reason to believe their current roster status is the primary hindrance in a trade.

 

Both have the options of requesting their contract to be voided and declaring free agency. The Red Sox would certainly oblige, yet neither has. I'm not surprised by this, but if either one wants to get back to MLB, both are aware of the obstacles...

[harmony]

With what aspect of the situations of Craig and Castillo would the MLBPA disapprove? Castillo and Craig are both receiving every penny they were promised, and the primary reason neither is on any MLB roster is related to their performance. And as neither has really even performed all that well at the minor league level, there is no reason to believe their current roster status is the primary hindrance in a trade.

 

Both have the options of requesting their contract to be voided and declaring free agency. The Red Sox would certainly oblige, yet neither has. I'm not surprised by this, but if either one wants to get back to MLB, both are aware of the obstacles...

Allen Craig in March 2013 signed an extension with the St. Louis Cardinals, a franchise that was nowhere near the luxury tax limit. If Craig had remained with the St. Louis, the Cardinals could facilitate a trade by paying part of his salary without luxury tax implications. With the trade to Boston, and with his underperformance, Craig is pretty much precluded from plying his trade at the MLB level unless he forgoes his negotiated salary.

 

I suspect agents may address the issue in future player contracts.

[southpaw777]

No. Its 100% about results.

 

If Sandoval acted the way he did during a great season, fans would praise his attitude and call him a great clubhouse guy. But as it was after a bad season, he clearly must not care. If he tried hard and failed, would fans really love him? Matt Clement pitched himself into the ground for the Sox. Any love? John Lackey struggled heavily for two years in Boston, and all his intensity on the field was held against him by fans. Sure we all learned to love Lackey. Coincidentally when he started pitching better.

 

Sandoval's still the same guy with the same passions as he was in San Francisco.

 

Oh, so your telling me that my opinion, along with some facts on him, and why I dont care for him is not right? Hmmmm

Well, His results sucked due to being out of shape and then the shoulder, so his performance, or results, sucked...so tracing his performace back to his conditioning we see it was a direct result of not caring enough to get into baseball shape.

Oh, and i was pissed before he even started the season when i saw how out of shape he was...but no worries, you just keep on thinking you know what im thinking and feeling...its a shame you're spending more time bashing Red Sox fans for things they haven't said or done yet and throwing us all under a blanket instead of creating those brilliant and witty posts you usually do...

So for the record. I didn't like Pablo's attitude in his first spring training. I didn't like the way he looked and I didnt like is play that year...I directly connected it to his not caring and being out of shape. If the fat slob cared he would've been in shape his first spring training when he was making almost 20 f***ing million dollars....