Lineup Discussions

[moonslav59]

If the cause of Bett's slump is physical then some kind of rest might help. If it's instead some kind of emotional funk, then rest may also help as just a change of scene or doing things could impact outlook. Another possible way of achieving the same kind of result would be to revise the batting order again. MOve Bett's to 3rd and Ortiz to 4th. Really, Bogaerts, Betts and Ortiz have gone through or are in slumps so it might do them all some good.

 

Could be time to try JBJ in the top 4 or 5.

[greenwell]

Gausman pitched one helluv game, that's for sure. That doesn't explain Mookie's .222 avg over the last 15 games. (with 1 HR) He's physically and mentally exhausted. Needs at least 2 days off. He doesn't get it (or a miraculous recovery) this season is history. Can one player make that big a difference? He can if he's been the spark all year. Look at the other guys that got a little rest. They came back like gangbusters. Benintendi can fill in for a couple of days.

 

Since the sox are 9-6 over those 15 games and can't be that big of a difference.

[S5Dewey]

Since the sox are 9-6 over those 15 games and can't be that big of a difference.

 

What does Mookie's .222 and the team's being 9-6 over that same span have to do with one another? Yeah, it can be said that the team can win in spite of his .222, but five of those losses have been by one run.

Are you trying to make the case that Mookie being the old Mookie couldn't have made a difference in at least one of those five games?

[greenwell]

What does Mookie's .222 and the team's being 9-6 over that same span have to do with one another? Yeah, it can be said that the team can win in spite of his .222, but five of those losses have been by one run.

Are you trying to make the case that Mookie being the old Mookie couldn't have made a difference in at least one of those five games?

 

I was simply debating the point that without a miraculous recovery by Mookie the season is history. I did not mean to imply that there was nothing Betts could have done to help them win one of the 5 one run losses.

[Bellhorn04]

I think even Ted Williams might have had the occasional brief slump.

[Slasher9]

yeah. when it counted most. the world series.

ortiz > williams.

[Dojji]

Williams only got there once and was hurt at the time. I love David Ortiz, but let's not get absurd.

[illinoisredsox]

yeah. when it counted most. the world series.

ortiz > williams.

 

Now to be fair, Williams was hurt in the 46 Series. Hard to believe now, but there was a full week between the end of the regular season and the first game of the World Series. The Sox played a some exhibition games against a group of all-stars to stay sharp, but Williams was hit on the elbow in one of them and had it swell up on him to the point where he couldn't swing a bat for several days. He "healed" in time to play, but all indications are he was not anywhere near 100% and unfortunately, it was his only shot.

 

Ortiz has had the advantage of multiple postseason series and years to cement his legacy. We remember the fantastic fantastic series and tend to overlook the not so good ones: 2-21 against the A's in the ALDS in 03. 4-17 against the Angels in the 08 ALDS followed by a 4-26 against the Rays in the ALCS. 1-12 against the Angels in 09. 2-22 against the Tigers in 13 (1 of the 2 was a pretty big hit as I recall).

 

Make no mistake about it, Ortiz has been the man many times in the postseason. But he also has had 75 more postseason games to build that legacy.

[Bellhorn04]

Unfortunately for Williams, he also didn't do very much in the 3 other most critical games of his Red Sox career in 1948 and 1949.

[Maxbialystock]

Could be time to try JBJ in the top 4 or 5.

 

Nope. His OPS's are great (.870 and above) when he bats 6th, 7th,8th, or 9th and are lousy (under .700) when he bats 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, or 5th. Most of his at bats are in the 6th and 9th positions--OPS .872 in 6th and OPS .970 in 9th.

 

JBJ has 30 rbi's in 129 at bats when hitting 9th, 34 rbi's in 199 at bats when hitting 6th. He has 7 rbi's in 87 at bats when hitting 5th.

[moonslav59]

Nope. His OPS's are great (.870 and above) when he bats 6th, 7th,8th, or 9th and are lousy (under .700) when he bats 1st, 2d, 3d, 4th, or 5th. Most of his at bats are in the 6th and 9th positions--OPS .872 in 6th and OPS .970 in 9th.

 

JBJ has 30 rbi's in 129 at bats when hitting 9th, 34 rbi's in 199 at bats when hitting 6th. He has 7 rbi's in 87 at bats when hitting 5th.

 

I'm not sure the sample sizes are big enough to indicate some sort of pattern or aversion to certain slots.

 

He only has all of 36 PAs from the one through four slots.

 

His best career slot is #6 (.850)

 

5 is actually better than 7- career.

[Maxbialystock]

Me, I leave Betts in the lineup from here on out and probably keep him batting 4th to protect Ortiz batting 3d. Ortiz had several IBB's earlier in the season, but none since Betts moved to #4.

 

I think Betts is our one and only five tool player. He has 13 assists to 1 error and leads the team by a bunch in SB's and in runs scored. He also leads the team in hits and total bases, is second in home runs with 30 and 2d in rbi's with 104. And he plays smart, focused baseball. Let him work through his slump.

[Maxbialystock]

I'm not sure the sample sizes are big enough to indicate some sort of pattern or aversion to certain slots.

 

He only has all of 36 PAs from the one through four slots.

 

His best career slot is #6 (.850)

 

5 is actually better than 7- career.

 

Don't agree on career because he is so young and is having his breakout year as we speak. The past is irrelevant in my judgment.

[Bellhorn04]

If Bogey doesn't pick it up soon I could see them moving him down and moving JBJ up.

[Kimmi]

Numbers wise it might make some sense to move Jackie up in the line up, but I really like the dynamic of the line up better when he is batting 9th. I live having a good bat at the bottom of the order and I like having someone who can get on base ahead of the top of the order. He seems to thrive in the 9 spot. I would leave him there.

[moonslav59]

Don't agree on career because he is so young and is having his breakout year as we speak. The past is irrelevant in my judgment.

 

Okay, let's talk just this year.

 

He's got just 20 PAs in the 1 through 4 slot, and you want to make some sort of determination based on that?

 

JBJ goes through hot and cold streaks. I'm not sure where he hits is what causes it.

[Spudboy]

Numbers wise it might make some sense to move Jackie up in the line up, but I really like the dynamic of the line up better when he is batting 9th. I live having a good bat at the bottom of the order and I like having someone who can get on base ahead of the top of the order. He seems to thrive in the 9 spot. I would leave him there.

 

This is exactly how I feel.

 

The idea of moving Bogey down has some merit but should not be tied to moving JBJ up. That would be dumb and unjustified.

[SoxHop]

Numbers wise it might make some sense to move Jackie up in the line up, but I really like the dynamic of the line up better when he is batting 9th. I live having a good bat at the bottom of the order and I like having someone who can get on base ahead of the top of the order. He seems to thrive in the 9 spot. I would leave him there.

 

Huh,???? Miss...... the lineup doesn't matter?????

 

I'd agree though..... Jackie kind of nicely sits right in the 9 hole..... I guess mainly because I have no idea what else to do with him.......

[sk7326]

Really simple - some players care a ton where they hit, and others don't ... so if you can find a way to accomodate the former, then hooray. Fortunately Pedroia has caught fire at a spot he historically has not loved.

 

Bradley in the 9 spot is good - I understand on one level, but it is good to turn the lineup over that way. In a way our lineup is akin to one of those NL lineups with the pitcher batting 8th.

[Kingface]

.810 ops, 17 HR's, 75RBI's and a .280avg against Right Handed Starters....... - Hanley Ramirez. I remember some guy here wanted to see HanRam platooned just a month ago and dropped in the order. Reason 5,000 why none of us are GM's........

 

a HUGE kudos to JF for creating this lineup and sticking to it. 1-5 the best lineup in all of baseball by far.

[mvp 78]

.810 ops, 17 HR's, 75RBI's and a .280avg against Right Handed Starters....... - Hanley Ramirez. I remember some guy here wanted to see HanRam platooned just a month ago and dropped in the order. Reason 5,000 why none of us are GM's........

 

a HUGE kudos to JF for creating this lineup and sticking to it. 1-5 the best lineup in all of baseball by far.

But what if he stinks mext year and we realize we should have traded him this year PRIOR TO HIS HOT STREAK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Kingface]

But what if he stinks mext year and we realize we should have traded him this year PRIOR TO HIS HOT STREAK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

.......well then clearly it would be Theo Epstein, John Farrell, Grady Little and Tito's fault.

[Bellhorn04]

but what if he stinks mext year and we realize we should have traded him this year prior to his hot streak?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

sell high !!!!!

[Spudboy]

How about just being high?

[oldtimer]

I get frustrated when hitters don't swing with runners in scoring position and two strike counts. Latest one was Pedey with the bases loaded and two outs taking one. The ball was over the plate and I would think you have a better chance of swinging in that case than standing there. I know with a 98 mph fastball, noting is easy and I know Pedey is a great hitter, but it is still frustrating to watch. Leon has done that twice recently as well. Come on guys, swing!

[moonslav59]

I get frustrated when hitters don't swing with runners in scoring position and two strike counts. Latest one was Pedey with the bases loaded and two outs taking one. The ball was over the plate and I would think you have a better chance of swinging in that case than standing there. I know with a 98 mph fastball, noting is easy and I know Pedey is a great hitter, but it is still frustrating to watch. Leon has done that twice recently as well. Come on guys, swing!

 

It's not always easy recognizing which pitches will end up in the K zone. Sometimes a hitter is guessing fastball, and they get a curve, so they freeze. Other times maybe you just make a mistake.

Edited September 18, 2016 by moonslav59

[FredLynn]

This is exactly how I feel.

 

The idea of moving Bogey down has some merit but should not be tied to moving JBJ up. That would be dumb and unjustified.

 

Xander Bogaerts, since Aug 1, has hit .214/.608 in 190 PAs. He should have been moved down until his confidence returned. I would have put Betts in the #2 hole, followed by Ortiz and Ramirez.

[Bellhorn04]

Everybody's got their ideas when it comes to the lineup.

[moonslav59]

Xander Bogaerts, since Aug 1, has hit .214/.608 in 190 PAs. He should have been moved down until his confidence returned. I would have put Betts in the #2 hole, followed by Ortiz and Ramirez.

 

I'm glad they didn't move Bogey today. He had 3 runs and 3 RBI from the 2 slot.

[Kingface]

Just because somebody is slumping doesn't mean they should automatically be shifted around.....I never understood this notion. You move Bogie then that means somebody else has to be moved. Moving Betts to the 2 hole....from the 4 hole where he has been absolutely killing it.....is simply the stupidest idea I have heard in awhile. The lineup has been producing.....and some guy wants to move arguably the best player on the team out of his spot.........pure genius.