Lineup Discussions

[StephenCurry30]

Because there is less protection behind him and him hitting 4th could potentially lead to him getting one less AB, it might not sound like much, but that is a big deal to me. I want Mookie mf betts to get as many ab as possible.

[moonslav59]

I still like Betts getting the most AB's out of anyone on this team. #MookieLeads

 

I prefer Mookie leading off as well due to the fact that we have plenty of decent 2-5 hitters on the team. If we were truly lacking good 3/4 slot hitters, then I can see the merit.

 

I'm okay with him 3rd, but I'd like to see him get the extra 20-25 PAs he'd get by leading off.

 

It's also nice, late in close games, to wish for a guy in the bottom of the order to get on, so Betts can poke an HR to tie the game. Our bottom of the order is much better than most teams, so it happens often.

[devildavid]

I went to my first MLB games, a Washington Senators-Cleveland Guardians double-header at Griffith Stadium in the summer of 1955 and had a blast. My wife, then unknown to me, did something similar--a double-header at Griffith Stadium--about 6 years earlier and has never watched an MLB game since. In life, timing is everything. These days she watches the Sox in very short bursts.

 

I completely disagree with the revisionist history that argues that the Sox should have batted Betts 3d all year long because the lineup with him leading off, followed by Pedroia, Bogaerts, Ortiz, usually HanRam, and then a variable cast of characters led MLB in runs scored by a big margin for about half a season. It was during that 1/2 season that Bogaerts had the big OPS that made him the right guy to bat in front of Ortiz, who had an incredible first half.

 

What's changed since then, which everyone chooses to ignore, is that Bogaerts is in a slump, which in turn makes Ortiz less productive. Meanwhile, Betts is getting hotter and hotter, including MLB player of the month. The other thing, very recently, is that Pedroia seems OK leading off, which has not been the case for over 10 years.

 

In the first half Farrell also wisely started out with JBJ batting 9th and moved him up only as he showed he was up to it. He is doing exactly the same thing right now with Benintendi. The wisdom of this, which has not been remarked upon by anyone so far on Talksox, is that the 9th hitter has often not only been a good hitter, which can be a real pain for the opposing pitcher, but also the perfect lead-in to the top of the order. It is this phenomenon, coupled with some pretty good 7th and 8th hitters, that allowed Betts to maintain his position--while leading off, mind you--as the second best rbi man in this very productive lineup.

 

One more point on Betts. He has more at bats and more runs scored than anyone else on this team, which is largely the result of his leading off for most of the season and his being our best basestealer. Bosoxmal and others would have us believe that Betts leading off was tantamount to a tragedy and at least a grave misjudgment by Farrell. And I ain't buying that thesis.

 

It isn't revisionist history. Bosoxmal wanted Mookie hitting 3rd from day one because of his power. I wanted him moved from leadoff because his OBP wasn't good enough. Betts leading off wasn't tragic, but strategically questionable.

[devildavid]

I prefer Mookie leading off as well due to the fact that we have plenty of decent 2-5 hitters on the team. If we were truly lacking good 3/4 slot hitters, then I can see the merit.

 

I'm okay with him 3rd, but I'd like to see him get the extra 20-25 PAs he'd get by leading off.

 

It's also nice, late in close games, to wish for a guy in the bottom of the order to get on, so Betts can poke an HR to tie the game. Our bottom of the order is much better than most teams, so it happens often.

 

I'd rather have a player who gets on base leading off. Mookie does most of his damage with power. I'd rather increase the chance of having more men on base when he comes to bat. He's hit far too many solo HR's from the leadoff spot.

[Slasher9]

Sox are 4-2 since moving Betts out of leadoff.

Pedroia has been raking. so i dont think he is "whining" or "complaining" about leading off like many here suggested he would.

Bosoxmal was correct - Betts should not be batting leadoff.

[mvp 78]

Sox are 4-2 since moving Betts out of leadoff.

Pedroia has been raking. so i dont think he is "whining" or "complaining" about leading off like many here suggested he would.

Bosoxmal was correct - Betts should not be batting leadoff.

 

In the past, he has openly complained about hitting leadoff. I heard that Farrell sat Pedey, Xander and Mookie down to explain why he wanted to shift the guys around and to get them all to buy in. It seems to have worked.

[SoxnCycles]

I find that hard to believe.

Farrell is incompetent.

[mvp 78]

I find that hard to believe.

Farrell is incompetent.

 

Really? I've heard he's amazing at the off field stuff and that it's the only reason he even has a job.

[a700hitter]

Really? I've heard he's amazing at the off field stuff and that it's the only reason he even has a job.

That and he got cancer just as he was about to get fired last season.

[Bellhorn04]

This stuff is all interdependent. Pedroia is the guy who is making the move look good.

 

Mookie, BTW has a nice little OBP of .415 since July 1. He'd be great in either the 1 spot or the 3 spot. The problem was that Xander was struggling in the 3 spot.

[mvp 78]

That and he got cancer just as he was about to get fired last season.

 

The equation was: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter = 1 more year

 

This offseason it could be: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter - No Playoffs when going All In = Unemployment Line

[Slasher9]

The equation was: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter = 1 more year

 

This offseason it could be: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter - No Playoffs when going All In = Unemployment Line

 

your equation seems logical to me.

[a700hitter]

The equation was: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter = 1 more year

 

This offseason it could be: Clubhouse Chemistry + Cancer + WS Ring - Last Place Finishes - Dalliance with Reporter - No Playoffs when going All In = Unemployment Line

That would be the silver lining to missing the playoff until the next dope gets the job.

[mvp 78]

That would be the silver lining to missing the playoff until the next dope gets the job.

 

I'd rather a one game playoff and have Farrell back next year than have them miss the playoffs and get a new manager next year.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather a one game playoff and have Farrell back next year than have them miss the playoffs and get a new manager next year.

Me too. I'd prefer a World championship and a three year contract for the dope.

[mvp 78]

Me too. I'd prefer a World championship and a three year contract for the dope.

 

1 year for playoff appearance

2 years for ALCS championship

3 years for WS championship

 

I'm ok with that.

[moonslav59]

I'd rather have a player who gets on base leading off. Mookie does most of his damage with power. I'd rather increase the chance of having more men on base when he comes to bat. He's hit far too many solo HR's from the leadoff spot.

 

I don't disagree, but the timing of the call for him to bat 3rd came right when he was showing his normal late season surge, and his more recent OBP was among the best on the team.

 

I would certainly not start Mookie at leadoff next April.

[devildavid]

This stuff is all interdependent. Pedroia is the guy who is making the move look good.

 

Mookie, BTW has a nice little OBP of .415 since July 1. He'd be great in either the 1 spot or the 3 spot. The problem was that Xander was struggling in the 3 spot.

 

It's Mookie's SLG that makes him better suited for the 3 slot. More opportunities to drive in runs. He slugged at a nice .653 clip in July.

[moonslav59]

It's Mookie's SLG that makes him better suited for the 3 slot. More opportunities to drive in runs. He slugged at a nice .653 clip in July.

 

I get your point, and I don't disagree, but I was just pointing out that your OBP argument could be challenged by most recent data.

 

Mookie has the best SLG in recent days/weeks as well, so that is the point, I think you win with.

[Kimmi]

In the past, he has openly complained about hitting leadoff. I heard that Farrell sat Pedey, Xander and Mookie down to explain why he wanted to shift the guys around and to get them all to buy in. It seems to have worked.

 

Well, what do you know? Farrell managing the players like a good manager should.

[mvp 78]

Well, what do you know? Farrell managing the players like a good manager should.

 

Sure, he may be great off the field. It's the on field stuff that people have concerns with. I'll give him credit when it's due. Will you give him a demerit when it's due?

[Kimmi]

Sure, he may be great off the field. It's the on field stuff that people have concerns with. I'll give him credit when it's due. Will you give him a demerit when it's due?

 

1. I have always believed that off field stuff is more important.

2. I have questioned many of his moves this season, including two in last night's game.

3. Will I give him a demerit for those moves that I questioned? No, because they don't make as big a difference as most people think they do, and because I will defer to the manager's knowledge over my own.

[a700hitter]

1. I have always believed that off field stuff is more important.

2. I have questioned many of his moves this season, including two in last night's game.

3. Will I give him a demerit for those moves that I questioned? No, because they don't make as big a difference as most people think they do, and because I will defer to the manager's knowledge over my own.

i would defer to his knowledge only on days when I could be certain that both of his neurons were functioning

[oldtimer]

It's Mookie's SLG that makes him better suited for the 3 slot. More opportunities to drive in runs. He slugged at a nice .653 clip in July.

 

When I suggested Mookie be moved to the cleanup role for next season, most on the site either wanted to keep him as leadoff based on his speed and OBP. Several also thought as you do that he is better suited for batting third as he would have a better chance to drive in runs. JF made the move to cleanup earlier then I had suggested and to date, Mookie is looking great in that slot with more RBIs and HR's coming in bunches. I like him there and JF has located 3 really good hitters in front of him. Ortiz gets so much respect they walk him a lot upping his OBP and giving Mookie a lot of opportunities. The Sox are doing well now and have a chance to tighten this race provided the travel schedule doesn't get the best of them.

[moonslav59]

Several also thought as you do that he is better suited for batting third as he would have a better chance to drive in runs. JF made the move to cleanup earlier then I had suggested and to date, Mookie is looking great in that slot with more RBIs and HR's coming in bunches.

 

I think tonight was just the second time Betts was in the 4 slot this year.

 

He has the 3 Hr game from the 3 slot.

 

Either way, he's looking great in the middle of the order.

[Dojji]

Can I just say that Betts' emergence is really dulling the pain of losing Ortiz in the offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

Can I just say that Betts' emergence is really dulling the pain of losing Ortiz in the offseason.

 

Sure. David's farewell season is going perfectly in every way. I thought we lost him when he fouled that ball off his shin but that turned out to be nothing.

[moonslav59]

Can I just say that Betts' emergence is really dulling the pain of losing Ortiz in the offseason.

 

It's still going to hurt, but if you look at how we're doing now as Papi has been in a little funk, hopefully we can recover from the loss.

[Dojji]

It's nice to know that the young bats are coming into their own BEFORE we lose our aging centerpiece

[sk7326]

Several also thought as you do that he is better suited for batting third as he would have a better chance to drive in runs. JF made the move to cleanup earlier then I had suggested and to date, Mookie is looking great in that slot with more RBIs and HR's coming in bunches.

 

I think tonight was just the second time Betts was in the 4 slot this year.

 

He has the 3 Hr game from the 3 slot.

 

Either way, he's looking great in the middle of the order.

 

He's great anywhere on a baseball diamond. Definitely a triumph of scouting - and the Sox amateur staff actually knowing a kid's makeup and betting on it to get him in the 5th round.