The Benintendi Thread

[moonslav59]

Moon,

They said he will take reps at 3b before games and maybe LF, but the real switch will come in the offseason for 2017. Theyve already begun that process.

 

[On Moncada] That's all I asked for. And, I never said they needed to start giving him reps that day. I said "soon" and "sooner rather than later". I never called for him to be playing 3B within a month or two of my initial statement.

 

I did not think winter ball and ST'ing was going to be enough to have him ready to play 3B, LF or wherever in time for when his bat was ML ready. I'm not even sure that can or will happen by the end of 2017. That's why I left the door open for him to be our 2017 DH until he learns a position well enough to unseat the current position holder.

[mvp 78]

ALERT ALERT:

 

Benintendi will not be starting tonight (Leblanc is LHP). He'll start tomorrow against RHP Iwakuma.

 

Hype train departure is postponed until tomorrow.

[moonslav59]

This reminds me of the move to call up Bogaerts for the 2013 stretch run. It wasn't desperately needed, but it made a helluva lot of sense and ended up paying off big time.

 

We got lucky. They only gave Bogey 10 games at 3b in the minors before his being thrust into the spotlight at 3B on the big level.

 

That was one reason I did not want to see that happen to Beni in LF and Moncada at 3B or LF.

 

Just because Bogey did well for that short stretch, doesn't mean we should trust it to work for others. Bogey's struggles at 3B the next season showed that maybe it didn't "work".

[moonslav59]

And here's yet another wrinkle. He's played a total of 4 games in front of the LF wall in Portland.

 

And, people screamed at me for wanting to get Beni and Moncada to start taking reps or playing their likely positions sooner rather than later, so we don't end up having an emergency situation (like with Bogey in 2015) again. This philosophy should Trump the "a kid should master his first position first" philosophy.

 

These kids should fully learn their positions in the minors NOT at the ML level. If you think a player is very close, and it's obvious Sox management at least felt Beni was, then why wasn't he in LF much earlier?

 

Don't blame Beni, if he has some trouble in the field. This one should be on DD & Co.

[illinoisredsox]

 

Bradley played more than Sizemore because they cut Sizemore - because he can't play anymore. Different deal. They let three weeks of spring baseball determine who was starting.

 

As of June 17, 2014, the Red Sox had played 72 games. Bradley had played in 66 of them (starting 63 with 57 complete games). Sizemore had played in 52 games (starting 48 with 44 complete games). They were obviously both in the line-up at the same time a lot. Sizemore was released on the 18th.

 

They were not keeping Bradley on the bench because of Sizemore.

 

(all stats courtesy of Baseball Reference Game Logs)

[sk7326]

We got lucky. They only gave Bogey 10 games at 3b in the minors before his being thrust into the spotlight at 3B on the big level.

 

That was one reason I did not want to see that happen to Beni in LF and Moncada at 3B or LF.

 

Just because Bogey did well for that short stretch, doesn't mean we should trust it to work for others. Bogey's struggles at 3B the next season showed that maybe it didn't "work".

 

Benintendi playing LF is not an issue for me - at least on the road. At Fenway - well a new guy there is always a question (playing the wall is a discipline different from actual outfielding). There is no real way to prepare for that. Butterfield is a reknowned fieliding instructor. This sort of transition is not uncommon. That Hanley dealt with it so poorly is rare.

 

I will dismiss Bogaerts struggles the next season a little bit - the team did not give him a chance to get comfortable doing anything.

[moonslav59]

His floor is probably less than what Chris Young could provide upon return. He has a great chance to be better, but we just don't know.

 

Anyone know when Young is due back?

 

Could this call up be just a temporary fix until Young is ready? beni could have been told this is just for a week or two. If Beni is sent back down after 10 days or so, does he get the extra year of team control back?

[Jack Flap]

IIRC, Bradley "lost" the CF job to Sizemore in spring training and was actually going to be optioned to Pawtucket, but then Victorino got hurt and both Bradley and Sizemore ended up in the starting lineup. I think that's probably what SK is referring to.

[greenwell]

Benintendi playing LF is not an issue for me - at least on the road. At Fenway - well a new guy there is always a question (playing the wall is a discipline different from actual outfielding). There is no real way to prepare for that. Butterfield is a reknowned fieliding instructor. This sort of transition is not uncommon. That Hanley dealt with it so poorly is rare.

 

I will dismiss Bogaerts struggles the next season a little bit - the team did not give him a chance to get comfortable doing anything.

 

I guess it's good for him that only 22 of the last 58 games are at home.

[User Name]

And here's yet another wrinkle. He's played a total of 4 games in front of the LF wall in Portland.

 

And, people screamed at me for wanting to get Beni and Moncada to start taking reps or playing their likely positions sooner rather than later, so we don't end up having an emergency situation (like with Bogey in 2015) again. This philosophy should Trump the "a kid should master his first position first" philosophy.

 

These kids should fully learn their positions in the minors NOT at the ML level. If you think a player is very close, and it's obvious Sox management at least felt Beni was, then why wasn't he in LF much earlier?

 

Don't blame Beni, if he has some trouble in the field. This one should be on DD & Co.

 

We screamed at you because it's a silly proposition. It still is, and your argument makes little sense. The Benintendi move reeks of desperation, and it's pretty unnecessary.

[greenwell]

We screamed at you because it's a silly proposition. It still is, and your argument makes little sense. The Benintendi move reeks of desperation, and it's pretty unnecessary.

 

The fact that it's unnecessary is exactly why it doesn't seem like desperation to me. Maybe they just saw a good opportunity to give him a shot without hurting the team, maybe it's a PR thing, maybe they're trying to raise his trade value for an offseason move. But I don't think it's desperation.

[moonslav59]

Does he?

 

Remember this is an org which - since Epstein has left - has:

 

1. Turned the 3B job over to Will Middlebrooks on 4 good weeks of BABIP spiked baseball

2. Put Bradley in CF and then took the job away because Grady Sizemore's entrails had 3 good weeks of pretend baseball

3. Signed Stephen Drew to play SS and bump Bogaerts to 3B (this was more defensible - their 3B production sucked, but was a vote of no confidence for a kid who needed reps)

4. Aggressively promoted Swihart due to injury, and then seemed committed to converting him to LF after a month

5. Sent Christian Vasquez down based on an out of nowhere hot streak from a guy they had cut before (again, more defensible - Vasquez might not actually be able to hit)

 

This is not the team that stood behind Pedroia despite a dreadful first impression.

 

Don't forget they initially put the superior CF'er (JBJ) in LF so a guy who actually had LF experience and was inferior defensively (Ellsbury) could stay in CF.

 

[mvp 78]

We screamed at you because it's a silly proposition. It still is, and your argument makes little sense. The Benintendi move reeks of desperation, and it's pretty unnecessary.

 

Typical panic move.

[mvp 78]

Don't forget they initially put the superior CF'er (JBJ) in LF so a guy who actually had LF experience and was inferior defensively (Ellsbury) could stay in CF.

 

 

He had only 1 start in LF.

[illinoisredsox]

IIRC, Bradley "lost" the CF job to Sizemore in spring training and was actually going to be optioned to Pawtucket, but then Victorino got hurt and both Bradley and Sizemore ended up in the starting lineup. I think that's probably what SK is referring to.

 

Now that could be correct; Victorino was hurt early that year.

 

But one has to remember that Bradley hit .189/.280/.337/.617 in 2013 and followed that up with a .158/.213/.263/.476 spring training in 2014 (for what that's worth). Let's not pretend his offensive performance had screamed "I should be starting".

 

If you want to say 2014 ST meant nothing, then 2013 didn't either.

Edited August 2, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[moonslav59]

Benintendi playing LF is not an issue for me - at least on the road. At Fenway - well a new guy there is always a question (playing the wall is a discipline different from actual outfielding). There is no real way to prepare for that. Butterfield is a reknowned fieliding instructor. This sort of transition is not uncommon...

 

Still, how could it have hurt to have Beni play more LF while at home in Portland with a simulated Green Monster there?

[moonslav59]

We screamed at you because it's a silly proposition. It still is, and your argument makes little sense. The Benintendi move reeks of desperation, and it's pretty unnecessary.

 

Desperation or not, if they knew there was a distinct possibility of it happening, they should have jump-started the preparation for it happening. Moving a guy from Cf to LF is not as "traumatic as from 2b to 3B (Moncada), but it still should have been done "SOONER RATHER THAN LATER".

 

The Bogey to 3B was "desperation too, but many of us saw the writing on the wall long before they moved Bogey to 3B just 10 games before they called him up. People called my suggestion to give Bogey reps at 3B "silly" and worse back then too.

 

I'm not going to argue that this call up was necessary or not. I tend to think we could have waited longer, but Brentz and Holt suck in LF. Even the Brentz and Holt apologists have realized as much. I was hoping Young would be back by now, and maybe this move was more about need than readiness, but the fact is Sox management made the call. Label it what you want, but Beni is here after just minimal time in LF--exactly what I feared might happen. Next, might be Moncada being called up next spring with just a short time playing his next chosen position.

 

I get the "take it slow" approach with prospects. I'm not doubting rushing a prospect can set them back a notch or two, but the trade off should not be to call players up before they have enough time at a new position, and that seems to be happening too much with this team from Bogey at 3B, JBJ in LF, Swihart in LF and now Beni in LF with Moncada's decision looming large in the near future. At least they gave Shaw a lot of reps at 3B in the minors before last year.

 

[moonslav59]

The fact that it's unnecessary is exactly why it doesn't seem like desperation to me. Maybe they just saw a good opportunity to give him a shot without hurting the team, maybe it's a PR thing, maybe they're trying to raise his trade value for an offseason move. But I don't think it's desperation.

 

Good point, or maybe they told Beni that this is just for a week or two, until Young comes back.

[moonslav59]

Typical panic move.

 

If you're a panic move type GM, then at least plan for the possibilities.

[moonslav59]

He had only 1 start in LF.

 

Who?

 

JBJ?

He started 10 of his 26 starts in LF in 2013 and played partial games there in 4 more. (Note: they also played JBJ in LF 17 times and RF 32 times in 2015 rather than move Mookie, but that was understandable.)

 

Ellsbury?

He played 22 in LF in '07 and 58 in '08

 

[Jack Flap]

Now that could be correct; Victorino was hurt early that year.

 

But one has to remember that Bradley hit .189/.280/.337/.617 in 2013 and followed that up with a .158/.213/.263/.476 spring training in 2014 (for what that's worth). Let's not pretend his offensive performance had screamed "I should be starting".

 

If you want to say 2014 ST meant nothing, then 2013 didn't either.

 

Oh, I wasn't necessarily agreeing with the argument...just giving some clarity.

 

Spring training numbers don't really mean anything to me, and the wild swings of Bradley's early career are a good example of why.

[moonslav59]

Now that could be correct; Victorino was hurt early that year.

 

But one has to remember that Bradley hit .189/.280/.337/.617 in 2013 and followed that up with a .158/.213/.263/.476 spring training in 2014 (for what that's worth). Let's not pretend his offensive performance had screamed "I should be starting".

 

If you want to say 2014 ST meant nothing, then 2013 didn't either.

 

JBJ was given a full shot in 2014, no doubt, but he was jerked around so much in 2013 it wasn't funny. After a great ST'ing, he was not only forced to play LF not CF in April, he was given a 12 game trial.

 

Granted an .097 BA is horribly terrible, but come on! 12 games!

He then got a 7 game look in late May/early June and went 4 for his last 16 ABs with two 2Bs and an HR, but was demoted again.

 

He then came up in July for 4 games (1 for 6 with an HR)- back down!

 

His September call-up to fill in for Ellsbury was forced.

 

I hope this isn't how they treat Beni, if he struggles at the plate.

[sk7326]

Now that could be correct; Victorino was hurt early that year.

 

But one has to remember that Bradley hit .189/.280/.337/.617 in 2013 and followed that up with a .158/.213/.263/.476 spring training in 2014 (for what that's worth). Let's not pretend his offensive performance had screamed "I should be starting".

 

If you want to say 2014 ST meant nothing, then 2013 didn't either.

 

Yes - that is 100% true ... neither should impact an orgs faith in its internal assessments (which should be done with more care than looking at small sample sizes).

[Emp9]

Anyone know when Young is due back?

 

Could this call up be just a temporary fix until Young is ready? beni could have been told this is just for a week or two. If Beni is sent back down after 10 days or so, does he get the extra year of team control back?

 

Unless that's something new or some new rule change, he doesn't instantly lose a year of team control. A year of service time is 172 days on the 25 man. It's August. I think it also depends on how much service time is accrued over the first 3 years in the situation that say he gets sent back down for whatever reason. Dec. 1st 2016 is the next CBA and the rules may change then. Unless I'm missing something...

[mvp 78]

Who?

 

JBJ?

He started 10 of his 26 starts in LF in 2013 and played partial games there in 4 more. (Note: they also played JBJ in LF 17 times and RF 32 times in 2015 rather than move Mookie, but that was understandable.)

 

Ellsbury?

He played 22 in LF in '07 and 58 in '08

 

 

JBJ. I thought we were only talking about 2014?

[oldtimer]

 

I'm not going to argue that this call up was necessary or not. I tend to think we could have waited longer, but Brentz and Holt suck in LF. Even the Brentz and Holt apologists have realized as much. I was hoping Young would be back by now, and maybe this move was more about need than readiness, but the fact is Sox management made the call. Label it what you want, but Beni is here after just minimal time in LF--exactly what I feared might happen. Next, might be Moncada being called up next spring with just a short time playing his next chosen position.

 

 

Young went out with a hamstring, which is typically a 6 weeks injury or more depending on the severity. Then there is the need to have a few games in the minors to get sharp again. I think he will be out for a few more weeks. Not much word about Swiharts progress either.We are working with left fielders who you think suck and also these are are backups for the other outfielders. Benintendi as a replacement makes sense to me and to Red Sox management. He just may show us something as he get some ML playing time. Lets hope the fans are tolerant as he is just starting his ML career.

[S5Dewey]

Good point, or maybe they told Beni that this is just for a week or two, until Young comes back.

 

My God I hope not. I hope the FO isn't going to waste an option year on a two week trial.

[sk7326]

Anyone know when Young is due back?

 

Could this call up be just a temporary fix until Young is ready? beni could have been told this is just for a week or two. If Beni is sent back down after 10 days or so, does he get the extra year of team control back?

 

Naw. Young is there as a lefty masher. I think this is what it is - a chance to see what he has. The team is not leaning on his production - this is a pressure packed spot in that it's a pennant race. But he is working with a net here. I am looking for quality at-bats.

[mvp 78]

Young went out with a hamstring, which is typically a 6 weeks injury or more depending on the severity. Then there is the need to have a few games in the minors to get sharp again. I think he will be out for a few more weeks. Not much word about Swiharts progress either.We are working with left fielders who you think suck and also these are are backups for the other outfielders. Benintendi as a replacement makes sense to me and to Red Sox management. He just may show us something as he get some ML playing time. Lets hope the fans are tolerant as he is just starting his ML career.

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/07/boston_red_sox_injury_updates_16.html

 

He should be sent on a rehab assignment after this road trip. Could be cleared after a few games.

[greenwell]

Young went out with a hamstring, which is typically a 6 weeks injury or more depending on the severity. Then there is the need to have a few games in the minors to get sharp again. I think he will be out for a few more weeks. Not much word about Swiharts progress either.We are working with left fielders who you think suck and also these are are backups for the other outfielders. Benintendi as a replacement makes sense to me and to Red Sox management. He just may show us something as he get some ML playing time. Lets hope the fans are tolerant as he is just starting his ML career.

 

I don't think Swihart is coming back this year.

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2016/07/boston_red_soxs_blake_swihart_5.html