Christian Vazquez

[mvp 78]

Now that I can relate to, but honestly, I don't get bothered by one of our players having a bad streak, unless he's always sucked.

 

I try not to get bothered by any of it. The vast majority of guys don't always suck.

[S5Dewey]

That's very unrealistic, imo. Not being able to critique someone if you don't know them personally.

 

Example: Pablo came into camp last year out of shape. There is no question about it. Is it wrong for someone to think Pablo is probably lazy and doesn't care enough to be physically fit? If he was a truck driver, no one would care about his eating habits. However, as a professional who is paid by fanatics like us (NESN viewership, merch, tickets, etc.), showing up extremely out of shape is almost a slap in the face to some fans. If he doesn't show up at his best, why should they give him the benefit of the doubt because they don't know him personally?

 

I get your point and I agree. Sometimes there are things that just stick out and it's hard to give someone any benefit of doubt in a situation like that.

[mvp 78]

Well, in Pablo's case, coming to camp out of shape was what he always had done, and it worked out okay.

 

I'm sure some kind of laziness or personal care issues have always been part of who he is, but to him, it didn't matter until "it mattered".

 

It worked out ok sometimes, not always. It didn't work out in 2015.

 

His OPS has decreased every year since 2011. I think that's partially due to him getting older and carrying all of that weight.

 

From Baseball Ref: Height: 5' 11", Weight: 255 lb.

[moonslav59]

I try not to get bothered by any of it. The vast majority of guys don't always suck.

 

Especially Sox players, so bad slumps don't bother me. I know the hot streaks will come along at some point.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, in Pablo's case, coming to camp out of shape was what he always had done, and it worked out okay.

 

I'm sure some kind of laziness or personal care issues have always been part of who he is, but to him, it didn't matter until "it mattered".

 

The way he looked last spring certainly concerned the Sox FO. They made it clear pretty early that he was competing with Shaw for the job.

[moonslav59]

The way he looked last spring certainly concerned the Sox FO. They made it clear pretty early that he was competing with Shaw for the job.

 

Was he really all that fatter than the spring before, or was it more a frustration over reports that he had lost a lot of weight, but really hadn't?

 

By the time Pablo knew his job was on the line, the damage had already been done to the point that expecting him to get in shape to win the job in a few short weeks was unrealistic.

 

I'm not defending Pablo. I hated the signing day one. My point was that I think Pablo never felt his weight was a big issue, because he had always done pretty well at a heavy weight before. He never "needed" to work to get into shape to be a starter until ST'ing 2016.

 

I think he knows now. I think he has enough pride to want to end all the negative talk he's heard over the last year or more.

 

I had a feeling he'd get himself into the best shape he's been in for years. I'm hopeful he's still working to lose even more weight.

[mvp 78]

Was he really all that fatter than the spring before, or was it more a frustration over reports that he had lost a lot of weight, but really hadn't?

 

I think the fans and media gave him the benefit of the doubt in 2015 when he showed up a fatty fatty fat fat. After being the worst FT 3b in MLB in 2015 AND Farrell stating that he looked great in the offseason left a lot of people disappointed in what they saw come Spring Training time.

[a700hitter]

He was belt-busting fat last year. Fatter than the year before.

[moonslav59]

I think the fans and media gave him the benefit of the doubt in 2015 when he showed up a fatty fatty fat fat. After being the worst FT 3b in MLB in 2015 AND Farrell stating that he looked great in the offseason left a lot of people disappointed in what they saw come Spring Training time.

 

True enough. The poor 2015 season was what started the whole think, but until then, I don't think Pablo viewed his weight as a major issue. By the looks of the shape he came into camp in 2016, I think he didn't even think "it started" yet.

 

From the fans point of view, the 2015 season should have been the "wake-up call". He should have done what he has been doing this winter last winter (or even before). I've battled with weight issues much of my life, but if I knew I could be playing a major sport, I'd be in the gym every day. It's hard for us to fathom the recklessness of someone who has had the dream in his hands and pissed it away by over-eating.

[moonslav59]

He was belt-busting fat last year. Fatter than the year before.

 

I'm not so sure. He's always been fat.

[S5Dewey]

I'm not so sure. He's always been fat.

 

And we'll never know because one can be any weight they want to be in the programs.

 

I can remember when David Ortiz was at his heaviest and was listed in the probram as being 235. Hell, ONE LEG weighed 235!! LOL

[mvp 78]

I'm not so sure. He's always been fat.

 

His weight fluctuated a lot when he was in SF. Here, it's just stayed at fat.

[moonslav59]

His weight fluctuated a lot when he was in SF. Here, it's just stayed at fat.

 

Fluctuated from what 320 to 330?

[mvp 78]

Fluctuated from what 320 to 330?

 

[mvp 78]

Just google Pablo Sandoval weight and do an image search. There are a few skinny Pablo images and many on the beefier end of things as well.

[oldtimer]

True enough. The poor 2015 season was what started the whole think, but until then, I don't think Pablo viewed his weight as a major issue. By the looks of the shape he came into camp in 2016, I think he didn't even think "it started" yet.

 

From the fans point of view, the 2015 season should have been the "wake-up call". He should have done what he has been doing this winter last winter (or even before). I've battled with weight issues much of my life, but if I knew I could be playing a major sport, I'd be in the gym every day. It's hard for us to fathom the recklessness of someone who has had the dream in his hands and pissed it away by over-eating.

 

Anyone who is 5' 11" and weighs 255 lbs and thinks he can compete at the ML level is kidding themselves. He had to know the situation yet he lacked self control or interest to do what he needed to do. Now we see that he has taken steps to get into decent shape. Will he regain the ability to compete or will two years of idleness have dulled his performance. We bet $95 mil and so far have lost. With his history, one wonders why we pulled the trigger on him in the first place.

[a700hitter]

I'm not so sure. He's always been fat.

I go to Ft. Myers every March. He was noticeably bigger last year than in 2015. He couldn't even position or turn his body to field balls properly.

[Bellhorn04]

To me it's clear that the team was extremely disappointed, probably even disgusted, with the way he showed up last year. Here's a guy they're paying 19 million a year for 4 more years, and they've got him fighting it out with an untested guy with mediocre minor league numbers.

[notin]

And we'll never know because one can be any weight they want to be in the programs.

 

I can remember when David Ortiz was at his heaviest and was listed in the probram as being 235. Hell, ONE LEG weighed 235!! LOL

 

They do make up heights and weights, but everyone does that to the point where I wonder if it's stipulated in contracts. I've seen Pedroia listed as 5'10". Sure he is...

[a700hitter]

And we'll never know because one can be any weight they want to be in the programs.

 

I can remember when David Ortiz was at his heaviest and was listed in the probram as being 235. Hell, ONE LEG weighed 235!! LOL

235 wsa Big Papi's must have been his High School weight. When he was in top shape, I doubt that he was under 260. He is an enormous man.

[S5Dewey]

To me it's clear that the team was extremely disappointed, probably even disgusted, with the way he showed up last year. Here's a guy they're paying 19 million a year for 4 more years, and they've got him fighting it out with an untested guy with mediocre minor league numbers.

 

IMO - and this is all it is.. My Opinion with nothing to back it up - I don't think Sandoval will be with the team as soon as they can get rid of him for any reasonable exchange. I think they're tired of looking at his face and knowing how big their mistake was.

 

It's like getting a divorce. It would have been cheaper to keep her, but at least you don't have to look at her every day.

 

Sorry Kimmy.. no misogyny intended. I'm just being practical. :-)

[moonslav59]

235 wsa Big Papi's must have been his High School weight. When he was in top shape, I doubt that he was under 260. He is an enormous man.

 

Nobody 6-3 and that big is anywhere near 230.

[moonslav59]

IMO - and this is all it is.. My Opinion with nothing to back it up - I don't think Sandoval will be with the team as soon as they can get rid of him for any reasonable exchange. I think they're tired of looking at his face and knowing how big their mistake was.

 

It's like getting a divorce. It would have been cheaper to keep her, but at least you don't have to look at her every day.

 

Sorry Kimmy.. no misogyny intended. I'm just being practical. :-)

 

Agreed, but you know what? Many felt the same about HanRam after 2015.

[S5Dewey]

Agreed, but you know what? Many felt the same about HanRam after 2015.

 

Yep. And I was one of them!

[mvp 78]

Agreed, but you know what? Many felt the same about HanRam after 2015.

 

HanRam's problem wasn't that he was out of shape and unable to play anymore. HanRam's problem was that he was put in LF, where former teammates said he would fail. AGon suggested that he'd do great at 1B because he would be more focused. The Sox moved him to 1B in ST. There was lots of fretting on here about whether or not he could catch popups or if he'd even be adequate. Well, there was one amazing poster who stated from day one that he'd be better than everyone's expectations at 1B. I wonder whatever happened to him...

 

[moonslav59]

Yep. And I was one of them!

 

Me too!

 

I even went so far as to suggest that even if he hit .900 in 2016, I'd look to trade him before he could get another chance to let us down again.

 

(Now that Papi has retired, I no longer feel that way about HR.)

[moonslav59]

HanRam's problem wasn't that he was out of shape and unable to play anymore. HanRam's problem was that he was put in LF, where former teammates said he would fail. AGon suggested that he'd do great at 1B because he would be more focused. The Sox moved him to 1B in ST. There was lots of fretting on here about whether or not he could catch popups or if he'd even be adequate. Well, there was one amazing poster who stated from day one that he'd be better than everyone's expectations at 1B. I wonder whatever happened to him...

 

 

Until 2016, HanRam had missed more games than Pablo over the previous 3-6 years.

 

Other than a great half season in 2013, he hadn't gotten above .817 in 5 years!

 

His decline was not as steady or pronounced as Pablo's before 2015, but it was pretty massive.

 

He had a .906 OPS from 2006 to 2010. (It was .925 from 2007-2010.)

 

He fell to .797 from 2011 to 2015.

 

Pablo had an OPS of .833 from 2009-2012. (It was .857 from 2009-2011 as HR's was .860.)

 

He fell to .719 from 2013-2016. (It was .700 from 2014-2016.)

 

Both dropped about the same amount, but HR started higher.

 

Yes, HR did not come to camp obese, but many questioned how hard he really tried to become a decent fielding LF'er (not me).

 

 

I remember many a poster saying we should trade HR, because at least we wouldn't have to pay as much as Pablo's deal, and maybe someone would want him. Now, after one good year, all that is forgotten.

[Spudboy]

HanRam's problem wasn't that he was out of shape and unable to play anymore. HanRam's problem was that he was put in LF, where former teammates said he would fail. AGon suggested that he'd do great at 1B because he would be more focused. The Sox moved him to 1B in ST. There was lots of fretting on here about whether or not he could catch popups or if he'd even be adequate. Well, there was one amazing poster who stated from day one that he'd be better than everyone's expectations at 1B. I wonder whatever happened to him...

 

Yup. He has vanished from FB too. That guy is always busy. I bet he will be back.

[Kimmi]

That's very unrealistic, imo. Not being able to critique someone if you don't know them personally.

 

Example: Pablo came into camp last year out of shape. There is no question about it. Is it wrong for someone to think Pablo is probably lazy and doesn't care enough to be physically fit? If he was a truck driver, no one would care about his eating habits. However, as a professional who is paid by fanatics like us (NESN viewership, merch, tickets, etc.), showing up extremely out of shape is almost a slap in the face to some fans. If he doesn't show up at his best, why should they give him the benefit of the doubt because they don't know him personally?

 

Of course everyone here has the right to form his or her own opinion about Pablo, but I agree with S5 that it is unfair to assume that Pablo is lazy, that he doesn't care, etc. It's fair to be disappointed in him though.

[Kimmi]

IMO - and this is all it is.. My Opinion with nothing to back it up - I don't think Sandoval will be with the team as soon as they can get rid of him for any reasonable exchange. I think they're tired of looking at his face and knowing how big their mistake was.

 

It's like getting a divorce. It would have been cheaper to keep her, but at least you don't have to look at her every day.

 

Sorry Kimmy.. no misogyny intended. I'm just being practical. :-)

 

No offense taken by that statement.

 

As far as Pablo being traded, I think that depends on several factors, such as how well he's playing, how well the team is doing, whether we have an acceptable replacement, and so on. In other words, I don't think the team will trade him just to be rid of him if the trade doesn't make sense, regardless of whether the return is decent.