Christian Vazquez

[cp176]

Second best Catcher or second best anything?

 

Gedman 84-86 >>> Tek 03-05

 

second best what else other than catcher? got me there. Yes - I liked Geddy but I will give the nod to Varitek. Now if we had gotten a younger, healthier version of Elston Howard back in the day, Tek would be relegated to a bobblehead on the shelf for me.

[mvp 78]

second best what else other than catcher? got me there. Yes - I liked Geddy but I will give the nod to Varitek. Now if we had gotten a younger, healthier version of Elston Howard back in the day, Tek would be relegated to a bobblehead on the shelf for me.

 

All I'm saying is that Tek's peak was overrated. Gedman's peak was vastly underrated.

[Bellhorn04]

He was good, but still overrated.

 

The word overrated is ill-defined and overused. It's kind of a weasel word, actually.

[mvp 78]

The word overrated is ill-defined and overused. It's kind of a weasel word, actually.

 

Every word can be a weasel word if you want it to be.

 

I think that the Sox fandom think Tek was an irreplaceable part of the franchise. There were many other catchers in the league at that time that could have done the same job as he did.

 

Also, he was a s***** captain.

[Bellhorn04]

There were many other catchers in the league at that time that could have done the same job as he did.

 

It's absolutely impossible to know this.

[mvp 78]

It's absolutely impossible to know this.

 

If that's the argument you want to use.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2004&month=0&season1=2004&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

[Bellhorn04]

If that's the argument you want to use.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2004&month=0&season1=2004&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

Tek is T4 in WAR on that list.

[mvp 78]

Tek is T4 in WAR on that list.

 

Yup.

[Bellhorn04]

Yup.

 

So that's your 'many other catchers'?

[mvp 78]

So that's your 'many other catchers'?

 

Many. They are legion.

[moonslav59]

1999-2005

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2005&month=0&season1=1999&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

VTek placed 6th out of 53 in WAR, and WAR fails to capture staff handling and pitch framing. (6th in OPS at .813)

Only 4 catchers had more PAs and a higher OPS in this 7 year period.

 

Some above VTek were notoriously bad "pitch handlers".

 

 

From 1999-2007

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=c&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2007&month=0&season1=1999&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

VTek placed 5th out of 68 in WAR (10th in OPS)

[cp176]

All I'm saying is that Tek's peak was overrated. Gedman's peak was vastly underrated.

 

I agree with you but I am glad that Tek came along when he did. I like the word overrated. It is what most of us do as Red Sox fans.

[moonslav59]

Sox fans are not the only people who know VTek brought more to the table than what the numbers showed, and the numbers showed he was top 5-7 for a pretty long time.

 

Pitchers who have been caught by dozens of catchers sing his praise more than I've ever heard any other catcher receive.

[mvp 78]

Sox fans are not the only people who know VTek brought more to the table than what the numbers showed, and the numbers showed he was top 5-7 for a pretty long time.

 

Pitchers who have been caught by dozens of catchers sing his praise more than I've ever heard any other catcher receive.

 

Your arbitrary starting and ending dates are completely silly tho. That's probably the worst way to look at anything ever.

[moonslav59]

Your arbitrary starting and ending dates are completely silly tho. That's probably the worst way to look at anything ever.

 

Catcher's career are shorter than most.

 

I chose Vtek's 7-9 year years where he was FT. I don't see that as arbitrary.

 

I can see how that time period excludes some catchers from making the list, but I lowered the PAs to get a wider sample of catcher comps.

 

I also don't think VTek's old age years should be held against him, but I'm fine with using his .776 career OPS. So, from 2000-2017, there are 43 catchers with more than 3000 PAs.

 

VTek finished 12th in catcher OPS. IMO, he was top 5 on defense (despite the poor CS%)> His staff-handling was great, but I realize that is subjective.

[Kimmi]

He was good, but still overrated.

 

Tek was not overrated. He was underrated, if anything.

 

You want overrated? Talk to me about homeruns and stolen bases.

[moonslav59]

Tek was not overrated. He was underrated, if anything.

 

You want overrated? Talk to me about homeruns and stolen bases.

 

...and CS%

[cp176]

And anything else you happen to not personally like I would add! Jason Variety was good, maybe even very good for us but many people see him as being a whole lot better than he was. That is ok - it is what we Red Sox fans tend to do. he was the right guy at the right time.

[moonslav59]

Apparently, many people see him as being a whole lot worse than he was.

[Kimmi]

...and CS%

 

That too.

[notin]

All I'm saying is that Tek's peak was overrated. Gedman's peak was vastly underrated.

 

I can agree with that. German had a three year surge that was far, far better than the other 10 years in his career.

 

But he still wasn't better than Varitek...

[Bellhorn04]

I can agree with that. German had a three year surge that was far, far better than the other 10 years in his career.

 

But he still wasn't better than Varitek...

 

German!

 

notin, you gotta do something about the spelling thing, buddy.

[notin]

German!

 

notin, you gotta do something about the spelling thing, buddy.

 

Auto correct sucks and is not in tune with MLB players from Worcester. You should see how it butchers Tanyon Sturtze...

[Behindenemylines]

Vazquez should catch more innings, but I would be careful on how many. A tired Vazquez will be less productive with the bat.

[moonslav59]

Vazquez should catch more innings, but I would be careful on how many. A tired Vazquez will be less productive with the bat.

 

These were the innings caught this year:

 

771 Vaz

699 Leon

12 Swihart

 

I could see this next season:

900 Vaz

450 Leon

130 Swihart

 

That's about 60% for Vaz.

 

We could also see...

1100 Vaz

250 Leon

130 Swihart

[oldtimer]

These were the innings caught this year:

 

771 Vaz

699 Leon

12 Swihart

 

I could see this next season:

900 Vaz

450 Leon

130 Swihart

 

That's about 60% for Vaz.

 

We could also see...

1100 Vaz

250 Leon

130 Swihart

 

Catchers have a tough position with many opportunities to get injured and also to wear down. best not to keep a catcher in without regular rests. Perhaps catching 2/3s of the time is a reasonable limit for your best catcher barring injuries which take him out for long periods.

[oldtimer]

Catchers have a tough position with many opportunities to get injured and also to wear down. best not to keep a catcher in without regular rests. Perhaps catching 2/3s of the time is a reasonable limit for your best catcher barring injuries which take him out for long periods.

 

I dug this out of the Yahoo question and answer section:

 

Catchers, even if they are good fielders, are used in the DH role (usually NL catchers DH during interleauge player).

 

Here are some of last year's numbers:

Starting Catcher, Games at C, (Total Games)

Joe Mauer -- 139 -- (146)

Russell Martin -- 149 -- (155)

Brian McCann -- 138 -- (145)

Jason Varitek -- 131 -- (131)

Kurt Suzuki -- 141 -- (148)

 

Nowadays, the average is probably between 120-150, around 130 mostly.

 

Some guys have great durability, though.

 

Randy Hundley caught 160 games in the 1968 season. Gary Carter caught over 135 games nine times. Remember, for last year's totals, there's 162 games in a season.

 

Based on these numbers we could expect Vaz to catch between 900 and 1100 innings.

[Behindenemylines]

With the Spankees lineup the Sox need production out of their catching position. Hopefully, the production Vaz had last year continues with the more innings he catches in 2018.

[StephenCurry30]

alright, Vazquez has been a major disappointment this year, major major major major disappointment. why did we rush to give him early extension?

[Natick to NC]

His supposed game calling and Defense is held up by many here ....but I'm with you ....he suuuuuucks this year and maybe most of last .