Christian Vazquez

[Dojji]

Completely true, The fly in the ointment here is the phrase "ideal trajectory angle". That trajectory angle is as crucial as bat speed in determining the flight of the ball and therefore determining the value of the exit speed.

 

I think we all know how difficult it is to hit a moving sphere with a moving cylinder at the optimum trajectory angle, both on a North-South and East-West axes. Ted Williams said it best when he said that the hardest thing in sports hitting a moving baseball with a bat - or something like that.

 

That's why I prefer LD-GB-FB. It pretty much tells you how well a hitter finds that ideal angle.

[Bellhorn04]

The Jays announcers commented on something Vazquez did a few times last night to try to cross up the hitter. Just before the pitch he would slap the dirt behind the inside of the plate as if he was positioning himself there for an inside pitch, but actually he was setting up for an outside pitch.

 

(Didn't do too well fooling Donaldson, unfortunately.)

[Hugh2]

Of course we do! We're baseball fans and we're obsessed with statistics!!

 

That's just the thing, some people have zero tolerance for new statistics and argue using classical statistics.

 

It's a resistance to change and a new way of looking things. my biggest pet peave isn't the fact that people don't like them but that they dismiss them almost immediately. It's a very unscientific and stubborn way to approach life. Even if you end up being tight that a stat is useless.

[southpaw777]

I'd say its only rteal practical use is as an indicator that a guy who's struggling is still hitting the ball with enough authority that the hits will eventually come.

 

Very true. If you cant watch the games, it can help.

ive already said that abot Vaz (which is where this discussion started) he was making solid contact, but hitting it right at someone. Ground balls and line drives. A few weak ones, but all in all he was making solid contact but making outs. I didnt need any stats to tell me that. Thats all i said. I watch the games.

Like I always say about every stat. They all have a use. With me, it just depends on the situation whether i need a certain stat or not to help me. I made the statement that this stat is useless to me in this situation and the stat guys jumped all over me and took what I said out of context which lead to all this...

[User Name]

OK. Assuming that you find exit velocity useful, what do YOU use it for? I'm not taking away the fact that it's enjoyable (again, the "Wow!" factor) but I don't see its practical use.

 

For one? Fantasy baseball. I write for a fantasy baseball website.

[User Name]

If a pitching machine was set up at home plate and different speeds were inputed and the ideal trajectory angle ( 45 degrees) was calibrated then the longest balls hit would be from those at the highest exit speed. Nothing new here. Just the laws of physics that are taught on day #1 of rocket science 101.

 

Funny, since on average, the longest hit-pitches, in the majors, are curveballs. Look it up.

[User Name]

Completely true, The fly in the ointment here is the phrase "ideal trajectory angle". That trajectory angle is as crucial as bat speed in determining the flight of the ball and therefore determining the value of the exit speed.

 

I think we all know how difficult it is to hit a moving sphere with a moving cylinder at the optimum trajectory angle, both on a North-South and East-West axes. Ted Williams said it best when he said that the hardest thing in sports hitting a moving baseball with a bat - or something like that.

 

This is why actually. In general, because of the end point of curveballs, they are usually hit at a better angle than most fastballs when hard contact is made. So he's actually not right.

[User Name]

That's just the thing, some people have zero tolerance for new statistics and argue using classical statistics.

 

It's a resistance to change and a new way of looking things. my biggest pet peave isn't the fact that people don't like them but that they dismiss them almost immediately. It's a very unscientific and stubborn way to approach life. Even if you end up being tight that a stat is useless.

 

You and Jack Flap are my BDC besties.

[User Name]

Very true. If you cant watch the games, it can help.

ive already said that abot Vaz (which is where this discussion started) he was making solid contact, but hitting it right at someone. Ground balls and line drives. A few weak ones, but all in all he was making solid contact but making outs. I didnt need any stats to tell me that. Thats all i said. I watch the games.

Like I always say about every stat. They all have a use. With me, it just depends on the situation whether i need a certain stat or not to help me. I made the statement that this stat is useless to me in this situation and the stat guys jumped all over me and took what I said out of context which lead to all this...

 

What a cop-out bro. (Sorry for the multiple posts, just got home from work and I'm leaving again, may not be able to post until Monday)

[southpaw777]

What a cop-out bro. (Sorry for the multiple posts, just got home from work and I'm leaving again, may not be able to post until Monday)

 

 

Ok, so because i personally dont find it useful in a certain situation its a cop out? Lol

Whatever man...

What i find funny talking to the big time stat guys (not everyone, but most) is whenever i say that i dont find a certain stat useful for a certain situation they start claiming its a cop out because i dont understand it or im just old school or some other pile of ********....

I understand all the stats. New and old. I also understand what and why people use them. I also understand that you use more than just one in certain situations...yeah, I got it. Thanks.

Personally i dont care to analyze every tiny little aspect of the game with numbers because its too much for me to enjoy the game. If some of you do, then more power to ya. That doesnt mean i think they are useless for crying out loud...so do me a favor and stop with the "its a cop out" crap and the "you just dont understand how it works" BS....

Edited May 28, 2016 by southpaw777

[User Name]

It's a cop out because you retracted half your initial statement. Stick to your guns

[a700hitter]

Aww, shucks. I could say the same, of course.

 

 

 

Regarding exit velocity...it's easy for me to see how a fan could watch every game of every season and never pay any attention to it, and never miss it. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make it a bad or useless stat, though.

 

My eyes told me that Jackie smoked those two balls that ended up as fly outs the other night, and maybe for some people that's enough, but I like having something quantifiable to back that up as well. If I was trying to explain the event to someone who didn't watch or had no way to see the game, I can point to actual data to support my account, and not just "He hit it really hard, man."

 

Like Hugh was saying earlier, almost any statistic can be dismissed out of hand if we assume that "the eye test" is sufficient on its own. I already know that Ortiz has been hitting a ton of doubles and home runs, so do we really need to track his slugging percentage?

From someone who saw the game, a "he really hit them hard and they were caught at the wall" is much more meaningful and interesting to me than "90% of balls with that exit velocity and angle are hits". That makes me yawn, but that is just me.

[User Name]

From someone who saw the game, a "he really hit them hard and they were caught at the wall" is much more meaningful and interesting to me than "90% of balls with that exit velocity and angle are hits". That makes me yawn, but that is just me.

 

Sure helps me waste time when I am bored, and also writing articles on hitter trends.

[a700hitter]

Sure helps me waste time when I am bored, and also writing articles on hitter trends.

And when I am bored I will read those articles--- when there is no game to watch.

[bosoxmal]

He's no longer fooling anyone; just upsetting his pitcher!

[bosoxmal]

And if you're 5'8" and using a 42 ounce hunk of lumber, you'll be lucky. to hit .125. The best thing young hitters can do is watch 105 lb. Japanese lady golfers hit the ball 275 yards. Upper body turn, timing, hand eye co-rdination, maybe?

?

[User Name]

And when I am bored I will read those articles--- when there is no game to watch.

 

I think our main disagreement is on statcast during the game. I usually don't pay attention to it during games, but when I'm compiling data for research during non-game time.

[southpaw777]

It's a cop out because you retracted half your initial statement. Stick to your guns

 

No, maybe it was worded wrong, but i know what i meant. I realize a lot of times i have to explain myself further because the way i word some things. Talking is easier for me than texting. Less misunderstandings.

Edited May 29, 2016 by southpaw777

[User Name]

No, maybe it was worded wrong, but i know what i meant. I realize a lot of times i have to explain myself further because the way i word some things. Talking is easier for me than texting. Less misunderstandings.

 

Fair enough.

[SinceYaz]

if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......

he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......

 

Swihart was heroic IMO for what he did last season. He was thrown into the brink all too early and did better than I thought. That in no way superceded Vaz, who was down for the count. I was twisted over what would happen this season, but now that Swihart is playing in LF and doing it with surprising ease I am glad that both are in the game nearly daily. Bravo, DD, for making the moves to get this done!

 

I am glad Vaz is doing so well. I love seeing him behind the plate and am not afraid when he comes up to the plate.

[SinceYaz]

And if you're 5'8" and using a 42 ounce hunk of lumber, you'll be lucky. to hit .125. The best thing young hitters can do is watch 105 lb. Japanese lady golfers hit the ball 275 yards. Upper body turn, timing, hand eye co-rdination, maybe?

?

 

Mal,

 

Do you have a thing for these young ladies and their gyrations? Heh

[Kimmi]

Aww, shucks. I could say the same, of course.

 

 

 

Regarding exit velocity...it's easy for me to see how a fan could watch every game of every season and never pay any attention to it, and never miss it. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn't make it a bad or useless stat, though.

 

My eyes told me that Jackie smoked those two balls that ended up as fly outs the other night, and maybe for some people that's enough, but I like having something quantifiable to back that up as well. If I was trying to explain the event to someone who didn't watch or had no way to see the game, I can point to actual data to support my account, and not just "He hit it really hard, man."

 

Like Hugh was saying earlier, almost any statistic can be dismissed out of hand if we assume that "the eye test" is sufficient on its own. I already know that Ortiz has been hitting a ton of doubles and home runs, so do we really need to track his slugging percentage?

 

I have always had a problem with the idea of "I don't need stats, I know what I see" type of argument. I have no doubt that people who make statements along those lines are very knowledgeable baseball fans who do know what they see. I am not trying to say otherwise.

 

That said, the two things about that that I take issue with:

 

1. Your eyes will lie to you, often due to bias.

2. You cannot make precise and valid comparisons between players who are fairly close in talent level without looking at the data.

 

For enjoyment purposes, the eye test is enough. For debating and assessing on a forum, I don't think the eye test alone is sufficient. That said, stats alone are also not sufficient.

[southpaw777]

Looks like my boy Vaz is still getting his accuracy back, as expected. To me, it looks like his pop time and velocity are good. Maybe not 100%, but very close. The accuracy is always the last to come back. The good news is he would have beat most if not all the runners attempting to steal. The ball was there in plenty of time, just not where it should be...that will come.

 

Swihart has plenty of value. GMs know the situation and Im sure they all value him very highly still. Sox did what they needed to do for the team. It was the best move To put him in LF right now IMO...

My guess is he will be involved in a trade for pitching.

[StephenCurry30]

.219/.259/.310 -0.1 WAR

 

Ouch

[MJantomaso]

I feel like Vazquez hasnt had a hit since that Batances homerun.

[robert vonhalle]

I feel like Vazquez hasnt had a hit since that Batances homerun.

 

he neds to hit 240 anyway!

[moonslav59]

I'm totally happy with Vaz behind the plate.

I don't need .240.

I don't need .225.

I don't think we even need .200 from him.

[Bellhorn04]

The only question is how he's doing with the pitching staff. Hard to say.

[cp176]

The only question is how he's doing with the pitching staff. Hard to say.

 

I think I know where you are going with this and I agree. At .225, .240 or whatever, if he is an above average catcher, it is all good. if he isn't, then not so good. I guess that he is getting the job done.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I'm totally happy with Vaz behind the plate.

I don't need .240.

I don't need .225.

I don't think we even need .200 from him.

 

Ridiculous.

 

No MLB team can stand to have an every day player in the line up with a sub .200 BA.