Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[FredLynn]

Nice start by Pomeranz, but it makes me wonder what will come first: hell freezing over or a complete game by Pom.

 

Complete games are a rarity nowadays...and we don't really need them. If he can go 7 high quality innings, thats fine by me. And it does look like he has come around.

[d-money]

Who cares about his velo? His issue was throwing strikes. Soxprospects has stated that he's pitched better after adjust his pitching selection.

 

That average 87 miles per hour won't cut it

[moonslav59]

I guess Pomeranz has been betterth an I thought:

 

Pitches per IP:

ERod 17.0

Buch 16.3

Pom 16.1

Price 15.9

Wright 15.8

Porcello 15.5

[Bellhorn04]

Well, he did go 7.2 innings his last time out for his longest stint of the season, so maybe my statement was a bit overboard.

 

He's gone exactly 7.0 innings in 6 other starts this year, so that makes 7 starts out of 24 with 7 or more innings. He seems to use a lot of pitches to get to 5 or 6 innings, so I guess that was my point. I still doubt he gets a complete game this year- rain delay or otherwise. He may not even complete 8 IP.

 

You do realize he only threw 51 pitches in 5 innings last night?

[Thunder]

If we can get ER and Wright healthy for September, I really like the look of this rotation. You gotta admit that in the second half, everyone's really stepped up. Pomeranz took some time to get his feet wet, but has looked magnificent in his last two starts. E-Rod has started to come around. Looks like the minor league trip to fix his tipping was beautiful. Price got a much needed confidence boost against that Orioles offense, and it will be fun to see how he pitches at the Trop, against a pathetic Rays offense. Meanwhile, we got a Cy Young candidate in Porcello (especially now that Sanchez is in the minors for two weeks), and an increasingly reliable Buchholz available as an emergency starter.

[Kingface]

Now if we can only stop marching Owens out there..........

[Thunder]

Now if we can only stop marching Owens out there..........

 

Only reason he got sent up was because E-Rod told Farrell his hammy wasn't quite ready.

[a700hitter]

Owens is a busted prospect. He has 0 value to us. A couple of years ago, he had value as a trade chip, but Ben was a prospect hoarder and couldn't differentiate the real deal from the duds.

[SinceYaz]

Throw away game yesterday ... HO just batting practice for big leaguers, when they get to hit. He walks lotsa guys.

[Spudboy]

Owens is a busted prospect. He has 0 value to us. A couple of years ago, he had value as a trade chip, but Ben was a prospect hoarder and couldn't differentiate the real deal from the duds.

 

I don't understand why Owens has not been successfully coached-up. This s*** has been going on for two years and it seems no improvement has been made. He pitches like s*** in Boston and the goes down and does the same thing in AAA with lesser hitters and gets away with it. It is reported that he has been pitching very well and he is brought back up to fail once again in the bigs. He is still kind of young but what the f***?

[S5Dewey]

I don't understand why Owens has not been successfully coached-up. This s*** has been going on for two years and it seems no improvement has been made. He pitches like s*** in Boston and the goes down and does the same thing in AAA with lesser hitters and gets away with it. It is reported that he has been pitching very well and he is brought back up to fail once again in the bigs. He is still kind of young but what the f***?

 

The explanation is in your post. He's proven that he can get AAA players out and he's proven that he can't get Major Leaguers out. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Dojji]

I don't understand why Owens has not been successfully coached-up. This s*** has been going on for two years and it seems no improvement has been made. He pitches like s*** in Boston and the goes down and does the same thing in AAA with lesser hitters and gets away with it. It is reported that he has been pitching very well and he is brought back up to fail once again in the bigs. He is still kind of young but what the f***?

 

hes got AAAA stuff, that's all. The big leagues is too much for him. Happens that way sometimes even to guys with better pure stuff

 

Anyone remember Kyle Weiland? Rubby de la Rosa? Alan Webster? The bust factor for young pitchers can be very large at times.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Dojji

[Bellhorn04]

Owens is just the latest chapter in the Sox long-running failure at drafting and developing good pitchers. Hopefully Kopech and Groome can reverse the trend a little.

[mvp 78]

I guess Pomeranz has been betterth an I thought

 

No kidding...

[moonslav59]

No kidding...

 

One more example of me never admitting a mistake.

 

[sk7326]

Owens was a good prospect who was "throwing more strikes" away from being a real somebody - because he gets swings and misses in the strike zone, which not everybody can do. Alas.

[Dojji]

You have to find the black consistently when you're throwing 87. You don't have to just have decent command, you have to have better command than nearly anyone else, if you want to live on a velocity that low. I don't think Owens' command is consistently bad, but he knows that if he pipes one, it will appear on NORAD's air-defense radar, so he nibbles, but he doesn't quite have the command to nibble effectively. That's a sign of a guy who doesn't trust his stuff, and to be fair, in terms of raw stuff it is pretty marginal.

[sk7326]

You have to find the black consistently when you're throwing 87. You don't have to just have decent command, you have to have better command than nearly anyone else, if you want to live on a velocity that low. I don't think Owens' command is consistently bad, but he knows that if he pipes one, it will appear on NORAD's air-defense radar, so he nibbles, but he doesn't quite have the command to nibble effectively. That's a sign of a guy who doesn't trust his stuff, and to be fair, in terms of raw stuff it is pretty marginal.

 

A real plus changeup - but need the other stuff to click too. Really fastball command is poor - and it is hard to be much of anything without decent fastball command regardless of velocity. He gets a lot of swing and miss - so it is really a command more than stuff thing.

[Emp9]

6'-6" Lefties take time to develop mostly because of their frame. Pomeranz at age 23 was pretty bad too. 2-9, 4.93, 14 HR in 22 games. His age 24 season was worse. Started showing signs of life (age 25 season) in 2014. Only now, at age 27, he's showing a nice return and even an all-star. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtml

 

I know Owens has been in our system forever, but he's still only 23. There's time yet for him. It still might take years for him to put it all together, but I wouldn't totally write him off.

[sk7326]

6'-6" Lefties take time to develop mostly because of their frame. Pomeranz at age 23 was pretty bad too. 2-9, 4.93, 14 HR in 22 games. His age 24 season was worse. Started showing signs of life (age 25 season) in 2014. Only now, at age 27, he's showing a nice return and even an all-star. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtml

 

I know Owens has been in our system forever, but he's still only 23. There's time yet for him. It still might take years for him to put it all together, but I wouldn't totally write him off.

 

I think there is an average starter in there ... but the first thing you gotta do is throw strikes, and right now he doesn't. He was not throwing strikes at Pawtucket either.

[Maxbialystock]

Good to read some positive stuff on Owens given how down on him I have been.

[Bellhorn04]

6'-6" Lefties take time to develop mostly because of their frame. Pomeranz at age 23 was pretty bad too. 2-9, 4.93, 14 HR in 22 games. His age 24 season was worse. Started showing signs of life (age 25 season) in 2014. Only now, at age 27, he's showing a nice return and even an all-star. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pomerdr01.shtml

 

I know Owens has been in our system forever, but he's still only 23. There's time yet for him. It still might take years for him to put it all together, but I wouldn't totally write him off.

 

I agree, 23 is still young.

[Dojji]

A real plus changeup - but need the other stuff to click too. Really fastball command is poor - and it is hard to be much of anything without decent fastball command regardless of velocity. He gets a lot of swing and miss - so it is really a command more than stuff thing.

 

A confidence thing will look like a command thing. Exhibit A is Daisuke Matsuzaka.

[Emp9]

Good to read some positive stuff on Owens given how down on him I have been.

 

I wasn't going for positive per se. Rational maybe? His eta as a solid 4/5 just as our core players would be entering their prime could be a positive if that ever happens.

[sk7326]

A confidence thing will look like a command thing. Exhibit A is Daisuke Matsuzaka.

 

Matsuzaka was culture and stubbornness not confidence - Japanese pitchers have a rich history of pitching away from contact and running up huh-yooge pitch counts (see Nomo) ... Matsuzaka was just in that tradition, he saw it as giving in instead of letting his top shelf stuff do its thing.

[harmony]

I agree, 23 is still young.

For what it's worth, Henry Owens is 24 years old:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.cgi?id=owens-002hen

[Bellhorn04]

Matsuzaka was culture and stubbornness not confidence - Japanese pitchers have a rich history of pitching away from contact and running up huh-yooge pitch counts (see Nomo) ... Matsuzaka was just in that tradition, he saw it as giving in instead of letting his top shelf stuff do its thing.

 

I think Matsuzaka also suffered some damage in the second World Baseball Classic he pitched in...his injury troubles really began after that.

[moonslav59]

Owens had one BB his last start and had seemed to be turning the corner. He should get another chance at some point, but probably not this year with Boston. I'm wondering who is next? Johnson??

[Slasher9]

Owens had one BB his last start and had seemed to be turning the corner. He should get another chance at some point, but probably not this year with Boston. I'm wondering who is next? Johnson??

 

Espinoza?

[Bellhorn04]

Owens had one BB his last start and had seemed to be turning the corner. He should get another chance at some point, but probably not this year with Boston. I'm wondering who is next? Johnson??

 

Yep, or maybe you're up for some more luck of the Irish with O'Sullivan.