Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[Slasher9]

Would anyone trade these players to the Phillies for Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickoff:

 

Swihart

Devers'

3 from:

Kopech

Owens

Johnson

Lakins

Dubon

 

me, me, me

[Slasher9]

Can I assume that 5days hence we will see Buch again? With eRod in Pawtucket? Buchholz certainly earned a shot.

 

Note: The Forum was not accessible during this entire game (6/16)

 

hey Mal. i for one, am looking forward to Clay getting another shot. i believe he will be ace like.

[Jack Flap]

Would anyone trade these players to the Phillies for Aaron Nola and Jerad Eickoff:

 

Swihart

Devers'

3 from:

Kopech

Owens

Johnson

Lakins

Dubon

 

Done.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have said before and will continually say that you MUST get another starter. The sox shot their wad this offseason dealing away top prospects to get a closer and spending $217 mil on an "ace". The ace of your staff currently is a 31 yr old journeyman knuckleballer. Price has come on of late and will likely supplant Wright. Porcello has been decent, but there are MAJOR warning signs with him. His HR rate is exactly the same as it was last yr yet his BABIP sits at .259, a full 51 points below his career average. I anticipate Porcello falls back into the low to mid 4 range in ERA. You also cannot consistently count on any knuckleballer, as once the flutterball flutters off target, he becomes a HR derby pitcher. Now Elias is in your rotation as well, and he has been abysmal to this point at all levels. ERod looks timid and hurt. Buchholz was awful. Owens looked scared. You have TWO spots in your rotation where you know you have to play offense like a beer league softball team to win the game, and that is not counting the regression to come for Porcello and the concern about a knuckleballer staying strong in Wright.

 

Think about this, you're 19th in the bigs in starter's ERA and that is with Steven Wright pitching like a Cy Young candidate. Right now, youre behind the O's by a game, and while they can hit the dinger, they aren't the long term threat to the division. The Jays have found their mojo and the offense we all were fearing has started to come alive. And the craziest thing about them is that they're 2nd in the AL in total ERA, 2nd in starters ERA and 1st in all of baseball in starters IP (and it isn't close). They have a deep and diverse rotation fronted by a Cy Young candidate in Estrada, and filled out with knuckler Dickey, crafty lefty Happ and two power arms in Sanchez and Stroman. If the sox don't make a move soon, they will not win the division and Toronto will take it going away.

 

After being 12 games over .500 coming into June, you're 5-8 this month with an ERA of 4.60. In those 8 losses, you've allowed 52 runs, in the 5 wins, you've allowed 16 runs. 3 of the 5 wins were due to Steven Wright allowing 3 total runs. Basically, your offense is starting to come down to earth a bit. The warts are showing and your team is starting to fade. Toronto has more staying power and is right on your heels. Baltimore is more like Boston, no pitching but solid offense. If you don't add to your rotation soon, you will be fighting for a WC spot

[bosoxmal]

It may be my, hopeful, imagination, but I didn't think he was straining has he been for the last year or so. Hitting more spots, and finishing his pitches more on balance. He also hit 93 last night with at least one pitch (without almost falling down). I guess we'll find out soon enough. If we noticed significant differences, you can bet that JF did so as well.

[Nick]

moon

 

There is something wrong with E Rod...

[moonslav59]

I have said before and will continually say that you MUST get another starter. The sox shot their wad this offseason dealing away top prospects to get a closer and spending $217 mil on an "ace". The ace of your staff currently is a 31 yr old journeyman knuckleballer. Price has come on of late and will likely supplant Wright. Porcello has been decent, but there are MAJOR warning signs with him. His HR rate is exactly the same as it was last yr yet his BABIP sits at .259, a full 51 points below his career average. I anticipate Porcello falls back into the low to mid 4 range in ERA. You also cannot consistently count on any knuckleballer, as once the flutterball flutters off target, he becomes a HR derby pitcher. Now Elias is in your rotation as well, and he has been abysmal to this point at all levels. ERod looks timid and hurt. Buchholz was awful. Owens looked scared. You have TWO spots in your rotation where you know you have to play offense like a beer league softball team to win the game, and that is not counting the regression to come for Porcello and the concern about a knuckleballer staying strong in Wright.

 

Think about this, you're 19th in the bigs in starter's ERA and that is with Steven Wright pitching like a Cy Young candidate. Right now, youre behind the O's by a game, and while they can hit the dinger, they aren't the long term threat to the division. The Jays have found their mojo and the offense we all were fearing has started to come alive. And the craziest thing about them is that they're 2nd in the AL in total ERA, 2nd in starters ERA and 1st in all of baseball in starters IP (and it isn't close). They have a deep and diverse rotation fronted by a Cy Young candidate in Estrada, and filled out with knuckler Dickey, crafty lefty Happ and two power arms in Sanchez and Stroman. If the sox don't make a move soon, they will not win the division and Toronto will take it going away.

 

After being 12 games over .500 coming into June, you're 5-8 this month with an ERA of 4.60. In those 8 losses, you've allowed 52 runs, in the 5 wins, you've allowed 16 runs. 3 of the 5 wins were due to Steven Wright allowing 3 total runs. Basically, your offense is starting to come down to earth a bit. The warts are showing and your team is starting to fade. Toronto has more staying power and is right on your heels. Baltimore is more like Boston, no pitching but solid offense. If you don't add to your rotation soon, you will be fighting for a WC spot

 

While I totally agree we need a very solid starting pitcher to realistically be a top contender, I think using starter ERA is misleading. We play in a hitter's park. Our starter ERA - is 104, which is not very good at all, but it places us 14th not 19th. 6th in the AL. Our WHIP by starters places us in the same place- 14th and 6th.

 

It's going to be costly, but if we want to win this year, I feel we'll need a quality SP'er.

[Dojji]

Yes, we do need a starter. Preferably more than one. And we absolutely need to not live on the pipe dream that any of our current guys-with-issues will arise from the dust and save us. Fresh meat is what we need right now more than anything.

 

No we do not need a top of the rotation guy. In fact given the state of our depth an ace is the last thing we need. we desperately need to marshall our resources in favor of durability over quality right now. Reliability is the #1 thing we need and are not getting from the bottom 2/5 of our rotation right now.

 

I would rather have 2 guys who could take the ball every 5th day and bank on Price and Wright at the top of the rotation with Porcello as the workhorse #3 rather than spend the farm to bring in 1 ace right now. 2 more guys who could pitch on at least a 150 inning pace with a nonawful ERA would be enough to win us the division.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Dojji

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, we do need a starter. Preferably more than one. And we absolutely need to not live on the pipe dream that any of our current guys-with-issues will arise from the dust and save us. Fresh meat is what we need right now more than anything.

 

No we do not need a top of the rotation guy. In fact given the state of our depth an ace is the last thing we need. we desperately need to marshall our resources in favor of durability over quality right now. Reliability is the #1 thing we need and are not getting from the bottom 2/5 of our rotation right now.

 

I would rather have 2 guys who could take the ball every 5th day and bank on Price and Wright at the top of the rotation with Porcello as the workhorse #3 rather than spend the farm to bring in 1 ace right now. 2 more guys who could pitch on at least a 150 inning pace with a nonawful ERA would be enough to win us the division.

 

Any names in mind?

[Spudboy]

The kid deserves a longer look.

 

The kid deserves strong coaching and a quick kick in the ass.

 

He may be "only" 23 but this is his chance. He has regressed since last year. Talking with David Price apparently is not enough.

 

One more shot and then back down to Pawtucket with is dumb ass.

[a700hitter]

The kid deserves strong coaching and a quick kick in the ass.

 

He may be "only" 23 but this is his chance. He has regressed since last year. Talking with David Price apparently is not enough.

 

One more shot and then back down to Pawtucket with is dumb ass.

I don't think he is fully healthy. And I am not very hopeful that he can help the 2016 team.

[Spudboy]

I have said before and will continually say that you MUST get another starter. The sox shot their wad this offseason dealing away top prospects to get a closer and spending $217 mil on an "ace". The ace of your staff currently is a 31 yr old journeyman knuckleballer. Price has come on of late and will likely supplant Wright. Porcello has been decent, but there are MAJOR warning signs with him. His HR rate is exactly the same as it was last yr yet his BABIP sits at .259, a full 51 points below his career average. I anticipate Porcello falls back into the low to mid 4 range in ERA. You also cannot consistently count on any knuckleballer, as once the flutterball flutters off target, he becomes a HR derby pitcher. Now Elias is in your rotation as well, and he has been abysmal to this point at all levels. ERod looks timid and hurt. Buchholz was awful. Owens looked scared. You have TWO spots in your rotation where you know you have to play offense like a beer league softball team to win the game, and that is not counting the regression to come for Porcello and the concern about a knuckleballer staying strong in Wright.

 

Think about this, you're 19th in the bigs in starter's ERA and that is with Steven Wright pitching like a Cy Young candidate. Right now, youre behind the O's by a game, and while they can hit the dinger, they aren't the long term threat to the division. The Jays have found their mojo and the offense we all were fearing has started to come alive. And the craziest thing about them is that they're 2nd in the AL in total ERA, 2nd in starters ERA and 1st in all of baseball in starters IP (and it isn't close). They have a deep and diverse rotation fronted by a Cy Young candidate in Estrada, and filled out with knuckler Dickey, crafty lefty Happ and two power arms in Sanchez and Stroman. If the sox don't make a move soon, they will not win the division and Toronto will take it going away.

 

After being 12 games over .500 coming into June, you're 5-8 this month with an ERA of 4.60. In those 8 losses, you've allowed 52 runs, in the 5 wins, you've allowed 16 runs. 3 of the 5 wins were due to Steven Wright allowing 3 total runs. Basically, your offense is starting to come down to earth a bit. The warts are showing and your team is starting to fade. Toronto has more staying power and is right on your heels. Baltimore is more like Boston, no pitching but solid offense. If you don't add to your rotation soon, you will be fighting for a WC spot

 

I have no problem with what you have said except: "Now Elias is in your rotation as well, and he has been abysmal to this point at all levels." Didn't he just have 3-4 dominant starts in AAA?

 

The Sox are still f***ed, but hey, we still have some hope.

 

 

Clay will be starting again soon.

[a700hitter]

I have no problem with what you have said except: "Now Elias is in your rotation as well, and he has been abysmal to this point at all levels." Didn't he just have 3-4 dominant starts in AAA?

 

The Sox are still f***ed, but hey, we still have some hope.

 

 

Clay will be starting again soon.

Toronto's hitters are starting to heat up, and their hitters are very good, and their pitching is better than ours. I think they are the favorites to win the division. The Orioles will be fighting us for the wild card.

[Hugh2]

He's tipping his pitches, I think that has a lot to do with it.

[Spudboy]

I don't think he is fully healthy. And I am not very hopeful that he can help the 2016 team.

 

I recall predicting that this knee injury would be more significant than originally thought. I suggested that this may become a lost season for him.

 

At this point, I am closer to being correct than not correct.

[Spudboy]

Toronto's hitters are starting to heat up, and their hitters are very good, and their pitching is better than ours. I think they are the favorites to win the division. The Orioles will be fighting us for the wild card.

 

I don't argue that!

[a700hitter]

I recall predicting that this knee injury would be more significant than originally thought. I suggested that this may become a lost season for him.

 

At this point, I am closer to being correct than not correct.

Yep, I remember your initial concern before I even read about the injury. I think your concern was well-placed.

[moonslav59]

Wow! Some of you guys are tough on ERod. I think he deserves at least 5 more starts, before considering a demotion.

[a700hitter]

No one is being tough on him. He is probably not fully healthy. If he isn't, they need to figure it out and make sure that he gets healthy. Until he is fully healthy, it isn't reasonable to expect him to help the 2016 team.

[Spudboy]

No one is being tough on him. He is probably not fully healthy. If he isn't, they need to figure it out and make sure that he gets healthy. Until he is fully healthy, it isn't reasonable to expect him to help the 2016 team.

 

And if he is healthy now ( why the knee brace? ) he is still f***ed up with only two pitches.

 

Back to AAA if he sucks in his next start.

[illinoisredsox]

No one is being tough on him. He is probably not fully healthy. If he isn't, they need to figure it out and make sure that he gets healthy. Until he is fully healthy, it isn't reasonable to expect him to help the 2016 team.

 

And if he isn't fully healthy, he should not be going out there. Trying to pitch when you are not healthy can lead to several things, and none of them are good. This isn't some 15 year vet on his last legs. He's too young to be messing with a potentially pretty good career.

[a700hitter]

Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski should be fully invested in the 2016 season, even if it means parting with a prized prospect such as outfielder Andrew Benintendi or Rafael Devers in order to bolster the rotation, opines the Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham. With David Ortiz’s impending retirement and the brilliant performances from other members of the offense (Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Jackie Bradley, Dustin Pedroia), it’s unlikely that the Sox will receive this level of across-the-board domination from their offense again, and the core of their team is controlled long enough that parting with someone such as Benintendi or Devers is manageable, Abraham writes. In addition to seeking an impact rotation arm and a quality setup piece, Abraham feels that a platoon-mate for Chris Young in left field would be a prudent investment. He suggests Jon Jay as a logical target (though clearly not in connection with Benintendi or Devers), and the fit does indeed make sense for Boston.

I know that the thought of parting with prospects sends a shiver down the spine of many TS members, but the truth is that there will be a huge hole in our Roster when David Ortiz leaves. No one can replace him. The dynamic of our lineup will change radically. Post Ortiz Red Sox baseball will be more difficult than anyone would like to think.

[a700hitter]

And if he isn't fully healthy, he should not be going out there. Trying to pitch when you are not healthy can lead to several things, and none of them are good. This isn't some 15 year vet on his last legs. He's too young to be messing with a potentially pretty good career.

Agree 100%. The kid is wearing a knee brace, so there is little question that he is not 100%. He is not pitching well either, so there is really no reason to keep risking his future by trotting him out there. DD needs to get to work.

[illinoisredsox]

I know that the thought of parting with prospects sends a shiver down the spine of many TS members, but the truth is that there will be a huge hole in our Roster when David Ortiz leaves. No one can replace him. The dynamic of our lineup will change radically. Post Ortiz Red Sox baseball will be more difficult than anyone would like to think.

 

And IMO they shouldn't even try. Next year and maybe even the year after that they should rotate guys through the dh spot. I don't say that lightly. The production will be hard enough to replace, but the legend will be impossible, and in this town, anyone who gets the gig full time will be unmercilessly scrutinized by fans and press alike on both aspects.

[Dojji]

Any names in mind?

 

Ian Kennedy and Ervin Santana. I fully expect you to turn your nose up at both names, but they're the kind of guy we need right now.

[moonslav59]

I know that the thought of parting with prospects sends a shiver down the spine of many TS members, but the truth is that there will be a huge hole in our Roster when David Ortiz leaves. No one can replace him. The dynamic of our lineup will change radically. Post Ortiz Red Sox baseball will be more difficult than anyone would like to think.

 

I totally agree, but I do think our offense will still be plus next year even after adjusting for the park factor.

 

The budget factor will also be much tougher than many imagine. Replacing Papi will be very costly, even if we "replace" him by greatly improving our pitching staff.

[moonslav59]

Ian Kennedy and Ervin Santana. I fully expect you to turn your nose up at both names, but they're the kind of guy we need right now.

 

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but picking up guys like the two you mentioned would have been so much easier during this past winter. The overpay needed to pick up a decent starter near the deadline is always way too high.

 

I'm not saying I'm against picking up a 2 month rental, but parting with a top 6 or 7 prospect to get one would really piss me off.

[moonslav59]

And IMO they shouldn't even try. Next year and maybe even the year after that they should rotate guys through the dh spot. I don't say that lightly. The production will be hard enough to replace, but the legend will be impossible, and in this town, anyone who gets the gig full time will be unmercilessly scrutinized by fans and press alike on both aspects.

 

Agreed. Hopefully, Benintendi and/or Moncada can make the 25 man roster and take up some of the slack at DH, 1B, 3B, LF and wherever else we may need a boost offensively.

 

I think we will need all available financial resources to find a SP'er and replace Uehara and Tazawa.

[a700hitter]

And IMO they shouldn't even try. Next year and maybe even the year after that they should rotate guys through the dh spot. I don't say that lightly. The production will be hard enough to replace, but the legend will be impossible, and in this town, anyone who gets the gig full time will be unmercilessly scrutinized by fans and press alike on both aspects.

I am not worried about the PR of the situation, nor am I concerned about the sensibilities of his replacement. I am concerned about the offense experiencing inconsistency for a long time.

[Bellhorn04]

Ian Kennedy and Ervin Santana. I fully expect you to turn your nose up at both names, but they're the kind of guy we need right now.

 

I'm not turning up my nose, but there are some major issues with each of them.

 

Kennedy - why would a contending team like the Royals make him available?

Santana - probably available, but he has horrible numbers - less than 5.5 IP per start, 5 ER given up in each of his last 3 starts - and he's owed about $35 million.