2016 Trade and Roster Move Speculation thread

[S5Dewey]

I have no facts to back it up but to me Sox have lost more 50/50 balls than the opponent, to use a basketball term. What happened to Rangers last night has been happening to us. Despite that we're in the thick of pennant race.

 

We need for Clay and E Rod to step up to the plate. Lets exhaust all internal options, see what Kelly can do out of bullpen. I would like to trade for the Atlanta RP but not the starter. A power pitcher can survive in AL East....see Kimbrel.

 

All these guys whine and bitch about not getting to start but hey why don't you do something about it? You know, have a better command of your pitches and quit walking .220 hitters.

 

I'm not motivated by this being Ortiz' last year to make a trade. We can sign a FA to replace Big Papi.

 

I was right with you until you got to that last sentence. I disagree that we can sign a FA to replace Big Papi.

 

I'm usually one to believe that nobody is irreplaceable, but I'm going to make an exception in this case. It's not only replacing his production that's going to be the problem (and replacing an OPS >1.100 IS going to be a problem!) but it's also his clubhouse leadership. He IS the leader in the clubhouse which is evident by the way the players look to him in the dugout. And as much as (IMO) Pedey would like to be , Ortiz is still the face of the franchise.

 

IMHO there are a couple of ways we can "replace" him. We can replace him by signing a FA slugger (probably older so for too long a contract and too much money) who won't match Papi's OPS and hope everyone else picks up the slack, or we can "replace" him with pitching that will keep this team from needing that 1.100 OPS.

 

But I'm willing to listen to other suggestions.

[Nick]

I didn't mean to dismiss Ortiz....both his on field and what he brings to the team. I believe he had much to do with the success of our young players. Its truly laughable to think Hanley can step into his role. I don't think anyone thinks that.

 

What I was getting at was that there appears to be some power bats available in FA market for 2017. But you can hear crickets when it comes to starting pitching in FA market. I don't write coherently most of the time. Just a fan.

[Michfan]

Papi means more with these guys than just someone who can drive in runs.

[S5Dewey]

I didn't mean to dismiss Ortiz....both his on field and what he brings to the team. I believe he had much to do with the success of our young players. Its truly laughable to think Hanley can step into his role. I don't think anyone thinks that.

 

What I was getting at was that there appears to be some power bats available in FA market for 2017. But you can hear crickets when it comes to starting pitching in FA market. I don't write coherently most of the time. Just a fan.

 

Without even talking about his intangibles, Aside from the fact that I think it's nearly impossible to do, I guess what I was trying to say there is that I don't think this team can financially afford to try to fully replace Papi's offense. The team's offense is borderline to great with him and respectable without him. I'd rather spend our resources (a/k/a prospects) to try to work a trade with a team with a solid #2 or higher that's in a rebuilding mode in August.

 

I know/realize/understand that if DD does that there will be the outcry from some of "Yep, there he goes again, stripping the farm system just like he did in Detroit, just like I said he'd do." However, the thing these people overlook is that by doing it he built a team that arguably should have won the WS - but didn't. Why didn't they? Because as everyone knows, once you make the playoffs anything can happen - and usually does. I give DD credit for putting together that team. Sometimes s*** happens.

 

The difference between Detroit and Boston is that Boston has their youth in place, several blue-chippers who can be used to make a trade, and a next tier of solid prospects waiting to take their place. By making the trades DD did he left the cupboard bare in Detroit but even if he trades away some of our prospects the cupboard is still stocked, just not with ML ready prospects, which is OK because we don't need ML ready prospects at the moment. (Other than someone to play LF, that is. )

[moonslav59]

It is my opinion that we will lament trading Swihart.

 

Maybe/probably, but we can say the same about Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza and maybe even Devers.

[cp176]

Maybe/probably, but we can say the same about Moncada, Benintendi, Espinoza and maybe even Devers.

 

After seeing Benintendi tonight, I think that I agree with Spud on this one. Unless you go out and get someone else to play left, a combination of Young and Swihart or the other way around might be the best case scenario. I don't see Benintendi leap frogging over Swihart anytime soon. Moncada on the other hand is a different story i think. he may very well force the Sox hand. Unless they plan to dh him(just a joke) they may very soon have to figure out where he will in fact play. Physically he just looks a lot closer to being ready than Benintendi.

[georom4]

Would it be wrong to trade Pedey/Blake and their club friendly contracts to gain a front line pitcher an move up Benintrendi/Moncada? How exciting would the Sox be watch with those two players starting?

[Bellhorn04]

Would it be wrong to trade Pedey/Blake and their club friendly contracts to gain a front line pitcher an move up Benintrendi/Moncada? How exciting would the Sox be watch with those two players starting?

 

Now name the team that's going to trade us a front line pitcher and wants Pedroia.

[cp176]

Would it be wrong to trade Pedey/Blake and their club friendly contracts to gain a front line pitcher an move up Benintrendi/Moncada? How exciting would the Sox be watch with those two players starting?

 

I think that it would be wrong even if it was possible. Have you seen these kids play? They very well might become good major leaguers but in no way are they ready just yet. Personally, it is quite possible that I am guilty of over rating some of these prospects once again.

[Spudboy]

I think that it would be wrong even if it was possible. Have you seen these kids play? They very well might become good major leaguers but in no way are they ready just yet. Personally, it is quite possible that I am guilty of over rating some of these prospects once again.

 

Can you tell us about the deficiencies of the two players? What did you see that says "tap the brakes" on this guy? Benintendi is small without muscularity, in my eyes. But other than that I have not seen much of him. What do you think?

[User Name]

Altuve is 5'6 with the body composition of a 13-year old, and he's a top-10 player in the league. That's not it. The real problem is that Benintendi simply has not played enough professional baseball to even be considered in the conversation for the main roster. Ditto for Moncada. Pump the brakes people.

[cp176]

Can you tell us about the deficiencies of the two players? What did you see that says "tap the brakes" on this guy? Benintendi is small without muscularity, in my eyes. But other than that I have not seen much of him. What do you think?

 

 

Benintendi is smooth very smooth but he doesn't look as big as the stats say he is. He and Dubon are comparable in size. He is small - wiry but certainly not compact. Once again, he is talented but he needs time to physically mature before he is close to being ready. Moncada is a physical specimen. It will be very interesting to see what they do with him. The Seadogs have 3 propects playing second base and ss without Moncada as it is. If they move him off second base, I think that that will tell us a little about what they see as his potential time line to get to Boston. At the present time, it looks like they are stuffed with second base ss type players. I will add that watching them stand in line up close and personal, if you were asked to pick the best looking athlete on the field, you would have no trouble picking Moncada. He is what they all say he is.

[Spudboy]

Altuve is 5'6 with the body composition of a 13-year old, and he's a top-10 player in the league. That's not it. The real problem is that Benintendi simply has not played enough professional baseball to even be considered in the conversation for the main roster. Ditto for Moncada. Pump the brakes people.

 

This is how I see this. Fans get too caught up in the new shiny toy. Both of those guys must need seasoning, especially since they have not played full season ball.

 

I never said anything like Benintendi was less than anything because of his size. I just noted that he was small ( much like Pedroia when he was drafted ).

[moonslav59]

After seeing Benintendi tonight, I think that I agree with Spud on this one. Unless you go out and get someone else to play left, a combination of Young and Swihart or the other way around might be the best case scenario. I don't see Benintendi leap frogging over Swihart anytime soon. Moncada on the other hand is a different story i think. he may very well force the Sox hand. Unless they plan to dh him(just a joke) they may very soon have to figure out where he will in fact play. Physically he just looks a lot closer to being ready than Benintendi.

 

I could see Moncada starting as our DH next season as he learns how to play LF, 3B or 1B well enough to be of more value there than at DH.

 

I also think how well Shaw does the remainder of the season will dictate where Moncada may play next year. If Shaw struggles, we may see Moncada pushed into 3B, assuming Sox management projects he can be decent there defensively in such a short time period to learn the position. If Shaw does well, we may still want to move Shaw to 1B next year and slide HanRam to DH. There's also the Pablo question. I'm not sure Sam Travis will enter the battle next year, but his name should be mentioned. With all these names in the mix at 3B, 1B and DH, it makes me think LF is probably the likely landing spot for Moncada.

 

Young has just one more year of control, and he could be traded easily, if the position is squeezed by Moncada and/or Benintendi. I don't see Holt as a LF option-only as depth. I do think Swihart could compete for the LF position or platoon LF with Moncada/Benintendi (and/or Young), if he's not traded. It might be hard to trade Swihart, until we know how gzood Moncada or Benintendi are.

 

Lot's of choices to be made soon.

[moonslav59]

This is how I see this. Fans get too caught up in the new shiny toy. Both of those guys must need seasoning, especially since they have not played full season ball.

 

I never said anything like Benintendi was less than anything because of his size. I just noted that he was small ( much like Pedroia when he was drafted ).

 

The fans are not the only ones drooling over their new shiny toys, these two guys are very highly rated by national experts. Yes, experts have been wrong before, but not as often as some seem to think they are. The last time we had guys ranked this high, their names were Bogey and Betts. I'm not saying it's a lock we get two more players at their levels, but it's not a long shot thinking at least one of these two guys comes close to B & B. That would be a spectacular gain for this club. between Bogey, Betts, Bradley and one of the "shiny toys" doing well, we'd have an awesome amount of production at a very low contractual cost for a few years anyway.

[Spudboy]

The fans are not the only ones drooling over their new shiny toys, these two guys are very highly rated by national experts. Yes, experts have been wrong before, but not as often as some seem to think they are. The last time we had guys ranked this high, their names were Bogey and Betts. I'm not saying it's a lock we get two more players at their levels, but it's not a long shot thinking at least one of these two guys comes close to B & B. That would be a spectacular gain for this club. between Bogey, Betts, Bradley and one of the "shiny toys" doing well, we'd have an awesome amount of production at a very low contractual cost for a few years anyway.

 

I meant that fans ( not the experts ) seem to think that top prospects will be a sure fire silver bullet before they swing a bat or throw a pitch in an MLB game. To this extent, the value of these kids is sometimes over stated. These experts you speak of all held Castillo in very high regard "MLB ready" , "All the tools". Granted, Moncada is very young and has lots of time to develop. But what if his potential was grossly misjudged as was Castillo's?

[moonslav59]

I meant that fans ( not the experts ) seem to think that top prospects will be a sure fire silver bullet before they swing a bat or throw a pitch in an MLB game. To this extent, the value of these kids is sometimes over stated. These experts you speak of all held Castillo in very high regard "MLB ready" , "All the tools". Granted, Moncada is very young and has lots of time to develop. But what if his potential was grossly misjudged as was Castillo's?

 

You can always find example of the "experts" being wrong, but many more times than not, if a player is ranked in the top 15 or 25, they turn out to be good to great players.

 

Also, I don't recall Castillo ever being ranked as highly as Moncada or Benintendi, but his age and play with Cuba might make this an apples to oranges comparison.

[oldtimer]

The idea that you have to get a certain number of at bats at AAA level before you can bring a player to the major leagues sounds to formulaic to me. Guys like Bryce Harper, Bogaerts and Marchado have come up very young and worked into great young players. Moncada and Benintendi should be brought up when they show they can compete and when there is a need. Left field was open

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There has been a lot of talk about Benintendi had only 450 minor league at bats and those at AA at the highest. I wonder about delaying a players appearance in the majors based on a formulaic approach like number of hits at the AAA level. Get real and judge a player by performance and club need. Hope to see Benintendi and Moncada in August at the latest.

[moonslav59]

The idea that you have to get a certain number of at bats at AAA level before you can bring a player to the major leagues sounds to formulaic to me. Guys like Bryce Harper, Bogaerts and Marchado have come up very young and worked into great young players. Moncada and Benintendi should be brought up when they show they can compete and when there is a need. Left field was open.

There has been a lot of talk about Benintendi had only 450 minor league at bats and those at AA at the highest. I wonder about delaying a players appearance in the majors based on a formulaic approach like number of hits at the AAA level. Get real and judge a player by performance and club need. Hope to see Benintendi and Moncada in August at the latest.

 

Let's look at a few players...

 

Bogaerts: 1636 PAs in the minors (ages 17-20)

356 at AA (age 19-20)

256 at AAA (age 20)

 

Betts: 1315 PAs in the minors (ages 18-21)

257 at AA (age21)

211 at AAA (age 21)

 

Harper: 569 PAs in the minors

147 at AA (age 18)

84 at AAA (age 19)

 

Trout: 1312 PAs in the minors (ages 17-19)

412 at AA (age 19)

93 at AAA (age 20)

 

There are exceptions to most rules, but not many non-pitchers jump from AA to MLB and hit the ground running.

[Nick]

Moon, don't you have to factor in playing at high level college programs? Was Benitendi's college at bats meaningless?

[moonslav59]

Moon, don't you have to factor in playing at high level college programs? Was Benitendi's college at bats meaningless?

 

No, they are far from meaningless. I'm all for fast-tracking Benintendi and Moncada, but I trust Sox management for the most part.

[User Name]

Guys don't need a "set amount of AB's". They need to show the people who are paid to make these f***ing decisions that they are both physically (numbers) and mentally (demeanor, ability to handle adversity) ready for the big time.

 

The approach to get guys up here is anything but formulaic, and even mentioning it as such shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how prospect development does (and should) work. Michael Conforto got fast-tracked to the big leagues because of his performance and team needs. How is he doing these days?

[moonslav59]

Guys don't need a "set amount of AB's". They need to show the people who are paid to make these f***ing decisions that they are both physically (numbers) and mentally (demeanor, ability to handle adversity) ready for the big time.

 

The approach to get guys up here is anything but formulaic, and even mentioning it as such shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how prospect development does (and should) work. Michael Conforto got fast-tracked to the big leagues because of his performance and team needs. How is he doing these days?

 

Agreed.

 

It's very rare that players fast-tracked out of need do well; you are right.

 

I trust Sox management to judge when these two are ready, and they may have to decide to promote them before they want to, such as they had to do with Swihart last year and Bogey at 3B in 2013. If Holt can return soon and play well, we may be able to hold off any forced promotion. If Brentz keeps doing well, they'll be no rush on Benintendi. If Moncada is needed at 3B, 1B or LF, there will have to be a period for him to learn a new position well enough to not be embarrassed at the ML level. I'm not sure how long that period might take. Barring injury to Pedey, Moncada's only use to us this year may be as a DH or PH'er in September.

[Nick]

I blame the whole Xander experiment on JF's love affair with Drew. It really bothered Xander. And for what? Don't get me started on our manager.

[Nick]

Pedy is under contract through the 2021. His body will not hold up. Not the way he plays.

[moonslav59]

Pedy is under contract through the 2021. His body will not hold up. Not the way he plays.

 

That is the one reason for grooming Moncada to stay at 2B, but I'm not sure he will ever become an average fielder at 2B. I still think his best spot may be LF, but I'm no expert on positional projections on players, especially ones I've never seen play.

 

I think Holt's best position is 2B, but I don't want him having to play FT anywhere (assuming Pedey gets hurt). We also have guys like Hernandez, Rutledge, Marrero and Dubon that could end up at 2B, if Pedey falters.

[moonslav59]

I blame the whole Xander experiment on JF's love affair with Drew. It really bothered Xander. And for what? Don't get me started on our manager.

 

I'm still not sure the move to 3B was what "messed Bogey up". He may have had a struggle had he stayed at SS. He may have been rushed to the bigs due to being in a pennant race and Middy flopping badly.

 

Certainly, the move to 3B may have been a significant factor, despite how well he played 3B at the end of 2013. The 2014 Drew fiasco was a shame.

 

Remember though, several prospect services mentioned Bogey eventually being better suited for 3B, and we'll never know if Sox management felt that was a significant possibility, but I don't think they ever did. Bogey's growth on defense at SS has surprised many people, myself included.

 

The trade of Iggy told me, Bogey was going to be their man at SS all along. Perhaps, Bogey's play at 3B to end the 2013 season convinced the Sox to keep him there longer.

 

To me, the biggest positional mistake Sox management made was keeping Ellsbury in CF and moving JBJ to LF.

 

JBJ was and is a better defensive CF'er than Ellsbury, and Ellsbury had previous experience in LF.

[Nick]

You called it with Bradley in CF and Betts in right. Bradley is our best CF, period.

 

At some point I'd like to see every high ceiling guys at their best position. If Moncada projects out as LF then Benintendi should be moved. Maybe not today but at some point.

 

I just don't think 3B ultimately is Shaw's best position.

 

I don't see a DH in our organization. We may have to live with Hanly because of his contract but it's a big drop off from Papi.

 

Question is will Vasquez improve his hitting before Swihart becomes adequate defensive catcher?

 

Who is our 1B? Keep HANLEY there and acquire a power bat to DH?

 

Do we make a blockbuster deal to acquire pitching or wait until 2017 FA market?

[mvp 78]

Pedy is under contract through the 2021. His body will not hold up. Not the way he plays.

 

Can't let Pedroia go! He's our best pitching coach! Love watching him grind through another season with a dirty uniform!

[Bellhorn04]

I blame the whole Xander experiment on JF's love affair with Drew. It really bothered Xander. And for what? Don't get me started on our manager.

 

I think you're overstating the 'love affair' a wee bit, considering that the Sox didn't sign Drew until Middlebrooks got injured at the end of May.