A Realistic View at 2016

[moonslav59]

No, why bring Braun in? It's like throwing bad money after s*** money.

 

The idea was to try and get a decent SP'er and very good relief pitcher for cheaper than usual by taking on salary. The swapping of Castillo's salary for Braun's lessens the hit, but I can certainly see why this deal does not really get us what we need most: a top young SP'er.

 

Davies is not likely to be the answer, so I think I agree; giving up Swihart and Devers and not getting at least a solid #2 is not a good idea.

[Emp9]

I don't think I'd do that specific trade, but look... The whole idea on Braun was that If the Sox wanted to secure a bat going forward after Papi retires it would make a little sense. Rumors have it that Mil is shopping Braun. You take on his whole salary, possibly take on half of Castillo's salary and include him in the trade with a couple mid-tier or far away prospects. Ok, not the best plan, but it definitely has it's Pro's. A deal like this wouldn't block Benintendi either and we'd have something to replace Papi with.

 

Young has grown on me a little. A RH bat w/ a career .850 OPS vs LHP. I'm good w/ keeping him and adding a LH bat like Matt Joyce: career .802 OPS vs RHP, who's a FA after 2016 who would be substantially cheaper and I doubt we'd have to give up too much. If the Pirates fall off a bit more in their very competitive division, I'd try to trade for him to compliment Young in a heartbeat.

[S5Dewey]

No thank you to proven steroids users. Pass.

 

This. Braun is a known and self-admitted PED user who tried to throw others under the bus in an attempt to cover up for what he did. The lowest of the low. This is a guy who should be ostracized from baseball. Let his contract run out and let him fade away, being grateful that at least we can be happy that the Red Sox aren't enabling him further. No team should be sending the message that they don't care what he - or anyone else - has done in the past, that all if forgiven if they can still play the game.

 

Allowing Braun to stay in the game past this contract only shows the younger players coming up that while the owners will give lip service to the ills of PED usage in the real world they embrace these players by lavishing millions of dollars on them.

 

Just say "NO" to PED users.

[Emp9]

I get your perspective, yet we still invite Clemens to the booth...

[Spudboy]

No thank you to proven steroids users. Pass.

 

That is one very good reason.

 

And the guy is a bold faced liar. No honor or integrity.

[Bellhorn04]

Pitching pitching pitching. That's all we need.

[mvp 78]

I get your perspective, yet we still invite Clemens to the booth...

 

What test did Clemens fail? When did he act they way Braun did?

[Kimmi]

That is one very good reason.

 

And the guy is a bold faced liar. No honor or integrity.

 

Have to agree with Slash and S5 on this one. He's not the type of character guy we need, and I don't want the Sox acquiring any known steroids users.

[Kimmi]

What test did Clemens fail? When did he act they way Braun did?

 

Personally, I didn't even like seeing Clemens in the booth.

[Kimmi]

Pitching pitching pitching. That's all we need.

 

I agree, the team should focus on pitching. That said, Moon is on point in thinking that perhaps we can acquire good pitching for fewer prospects if we are willing to take on a bad contract. Also, if pitching proves to be too expensive, then I hope the FO would upgrade the offense in whatever way they can, provided the price is right. Upgrading the offense should be less expensive than upgrading the pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

What test did Clemens fail? When did he act they way Braun did?

 

When did Clemens lie? Hmmm...

[Bellhorn04]

I agree, the team should focus on pitching. That said, Moon is on point in thinking that perhaps we can acquire good pitching for fewer prospects if we are willing to take on a bad contract. Also, if pitching proves to be too expensive, then I hope the FO would upgrade the offense in whatever way they can, provided the price is right. Upgrading the offense should be less expensive than upgrading the pitching.

 

Moon is trying to acquire pitching and get rid of Castillo in one fell swoop. He thinks big.

[Kimmi]

Moon is trying to acquire pitching and get rid of Castillo in one fell swoop. He thinks big.

 

I am not in agreement with that particular trade idea for a couple of reasons. However, the idea of taking on a bad contract in order to save on prospects is a valid one.

[bowman]

Any moves to upgrade is a plus. Unless the sky falls in, I'm sure moves will be made. Trading someone who you know who he is, is easy, trading young talent that may be stars some day is hard. Bottom line is if you feel you have a team that can make a run at it, you have to pull the trigger on a trade to give you a chance. It may not come around next year. I wouldn't make such a deal unless I felt the team had a shot at the prize, or the pliers were trading for will be part of the future. Bagwell for Anderson just to try to make the playoffs was stupid. That team had no shot a making a deep run. Never bought into it. Like trading Moncada for Bartolo Colon.

[Kimmi]

Any moves to upgrade is a plus. Unless the sky falls in, I'm sure moves will be made. Trading someone who you know who he is, is easy, trading young talent that may be stars some day is hard. Bottom line is if you feel you have a team that can make a run at it, you have to pull the trigger on a trade to give you a chance. It may not come around next year. I wouldn't make such a deal unless I felt the team had a shot at the prize, or the pliers were trading for will be part of the future. Bagwell for Anderson just to try to make the playoffs was stupid. That team had no shot a making a deep run. Never bought into it. Like trading Moncada for Bartolo Colon.

 

I agree to a certain extent on pulling the trigger if you feel like you have a shot. But within reason. I don't think you mortgage your entire future trying to win now when the winning now is not guaranteed.

 

In other words, I do not subscribe to the "Win now at any cost" philosophy.

[S5Dewey]

I get your perspective, yet we still invite Clemens to the booth...

 

I know. I will never understand why NESN invited Clemens to the booth.

 

At the same time, I learned a lot from watching him give a televised pitching clinic. I need some of that sometimes to remind me that there's a lot about the nuances and intracasincrisies (sp?) of the game that I don't understand.

 

As for Clemens, I like the message but I hate the messenger. [Disclaimer - I don't actually "hate" Roger Clemens. I've never even met the guy. It's his actions that I very much dislike. As to "proof", some people actually believe that OJ Simpson is innocent too.]

[Spudboy]

I know. I will never understand why NESN invited Clemens to the booth.

 

At the same time, I learned a lot from watching him give a televised pitching clinic. I need some of that sometimes to remind me that there's a lot about the nuances and intracasincrisies (sp?) of the game that I don't understand.

 

As for Clemens, I like the message but I hate the messenger. [Disclaimer - I don't actually "hate" Roger Clemens. I've never even met the guy. It's his actions that I very much dislike. As to "proof", some people actually believe that OJ Simpson is innocent too.]

 

Can't say that I disagree with any of this S5. That pitching insight was fantastic and he was quite affable. Overall Clemens seems like a pukard.

 

He was in the booth because he was being embraced as one of "our guys". Something Braun has never been and hopefully never will be.

[Nick]

I'm old school....

 

Like or not, Fenway is built to hit home runs. Don't get me wrong. We have great contact hitters with mid-level home run hitters in Betts, Bradley, Xander and Dustin. That's a GREAT GROUP. We can't ask for better up the middle players. Just imagine how great the team will be with 'normal' corner players and DH position.

 

I always thought corners fielders should provide some power. David Ortiz is just having a phenomenal season and lifting our power numbers. We will have Young, Swihart, Shaw and Hanley but there is not a 30 homer hitter in that group which we will need when Ortiz retires.

 

Instead of taking on Braun's contract, why not simpy sign a free agent with power? Blue Jays have two FA that I would like to see in Fenway. There's not a top of the line SP available in free agency this year.

Moon suggested we spend money on SP but who?

 

The truth is that not all of our top prospects will become major league stars. I trust DD to make the right trade to acquire starting pitching. Assuming we sign our #1 pick, I think Espinoza is expendable.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Nick

[Jasonbay44]

I know Braun is not only a steroid user but also an *******, so he isn't a good example of wanting a guy whose a proven cheater. But would you guys really be against a guy like Nelson Cruz because his steroid past? From everything I've head about him it was a one time thing, he apologized, has been clean since and everyone pretty much forgave and forgot.

 

Steroid users don't really bother me, yeah I don't want them specifically, but if they are gonna be allowed to play, I'd take them if they fit a need and other teams think the same way. Nelson Cruz a year after being suspended was signed by the Orioles and carried them into the playoffs. Peralta got a big pay-day after being suspended in 2013, etc.

[User Name]

Encarnacion would be my target. Excellent OBP/power combo, and tailor-made (.547 SLG) swing for Fenway

[moonslav59]

I know Braun is not only a steroid user but also an *******, so he isn't a good example of wanting a guy whose a proven cheater. But would you guys really be against a guy like Nelson Cruz because his steroid past? From everything I've head about him it was a one time thing, he apologized, has been clean since and everyone pretty much forgave and forgot.

 

Steroid users don't really bother me, yeah I don't want them specifically, but if they are gonna be allowed to play, I'd take them if they fit a need and other teams think the same way. Nelson Cruz a year after being suspended was signed by the Orioles and carried them into the playoffs. Peralta got a big pay-day after being suspended in 2013, etc.

 

I'm not a big Braun fan either, and I suggested an offer like the one I did to generate discussion and ideas for similar type trades. Braun is available, but as I have said all along, our biggest need is pitching. That's why I added Davies and Thornburg, but looking at the suggested trade deeper, I don't like it either. Giving up Swihart and Devers without getting a better SP;er than Davies is not worth it.

[moonslav59]

Encarnacion would be my target. Excellent OBP/power combo, and tailor-made (.547 SLG) swing for Fenway

 

Edwin is a beast! I'd love to have him on the Sox roster, and I'm assuming you mean via free agency this winter. I'm not sure how we can afford to sign him and get a solid SP'er and RP'er without paying a huge luxury tax, unless we trade a few top prospects for a couple inexpensive but solid arms.

[S5Dewey]

I know Braun is not only a steroid user but also an *******, so he isn't a good example of wanting a guy whose a proven cheater. But would you guys really be against a guy like Nelson Cruz because his steroid past? From everything I've head about him it was a one time thing, he apologized, has been clean since and everyone pretty much forgave and forgot.

 

Steroid users don't really bother me, yeah I don't want them specifically, but if they are gonna be allowed to play, I'd take them if they fit a need and other teams think the same way. Nelson Cruz a year after being suspended was signed by the Orioles and carried them into the playoffs. Peralta got a big pay-day after being suspended in 2013, etc.

 

I know I'm pretty hard-ass about this and I don't care that others may think so.

 

Here's my problem with Cruz.

2011 $3.65M 29 HR

2012 5.00M 24 HR

2013 10.50M 27 HR in 109 games. (Was linked to biogensis scandal and served 50 game suspension)

2014 8.0 M 40 HR (turned down a $14m QO from the Rangers. Shame on the Rangers for offering it to him. Shame on him for thinking he could get MORE!))

2015 14.5 M 44 HR

2016 14.5M On pace for ~45 HR

 

Issue #1 with me: I could be very contrite for $14.5M

Issue #2 with me: Either he suddenly learned how to hit during his 50 game suspension or the effects of the PED's are still with him.

Issue #3 with me: He continues to reap some pretty significant rewards for his PED-induced 2014 season and I'd prefer the Sox not reward him for it.

 

So no thank you.

[mvp 78]

Edwin is a beast! I'd love to have him on the Sox roster, and I'm assuming you mean via free agency this winter. I'm not sure how we can afford to sign him and get a solid SP'er and RP'er without paying a huge luxury tax, unless we trade a few top prospects for a couple inexpensive but solid arms.

 

There are no solid FA pitchers this offseason.

[Slasher9]

I know Braun is not only a steroid user but also an *******, so he isn't a good example of wanting a guy whose a proven cheater. But would you guys really be against a guy like Nelson Cruz because his steroid past? From everything I've head about him it was a one time thing, he apologized, has been clean since and everyone pretty much forgave and forgot.

 

Steroid users don't really bother me, yeah I don't want them specifically, but if they are gonna be allowed to play, I'd take them if they fit a need and other teams think the same way. Nelson Cruz a year after being suspended was signed by the Orioles and carried them into the playoffs. Peralta got a big pay-day after being suspended in 2013, etc.

 

I do not want the red sox to ever sign or trade for a proven ped user. Cruz included.

[User Name]

Even if unknowingly and probably because of an OTC-type thing, Ortiz failed a test. So should the Sox not have signed him to all of those contracts?

[Slasher9]

Even if unknowingly and probably because of an OTC-type thing, Ortiz failed a test. So should the Sox not have signed him to all of those contracts?

 

Tell me what he failed for?

[User Name]

Tell me what he failed for?

 

They never released it, but he failed the test. At the moment it was not forbidden either, but he failed the test. The point is that square "no users" stance is ridiculous. It depends on the situation.

 

What about Mondesi Jr, who failed over an OTC medication in the silliest of manners?

[Slasher9]

They never released it, but he failed the test. At the moment it was not forbidden either, but he failed the test. The point is that square "no users" stance is ridiculous. It depends on the situation.

 

What about Mondesi Jr, who failed over an OTC medication in the silliest of manners?

When you can tell me what Ortiz failed for when it was a banned substance I will take the stance that I don't want him on my team. No ped users on my team is my stance. You don't need to try and explain how I'm "wrong". You can have your own stance and welcome all the cheaters to the sox if you want. That ain't me.

[Nick]

Well the Sox are at it again...Castillo appears to be following Craig route.....hey that's another $11M in cap savings....lol Maybe we can do the same with Sandoval and pretend the FA signing never happened...of course it will still cost Henry but I don't care.

 

funny math, funny accounting but within the rules....it will reduce the luxury tax liability since we will be taxed this year at 30%....every $1M reduction over the $189M threshold saves $300K.

 

This is why the Baltimore skipper hates us....we just pretend mistakes never happened...if some idiot scout cost me $70M, I'd fire his ass.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Nick