A Realistic View at 2016

[Bellhorn04]

The only position in baseball that's an actual grind is catcher.

[moonslav59]

Well, say it took $25M... Its for 1 yr not 10 yrs or 7 yrs. Its hard to tell how bad his feet are, only he knows for sure. I think he also said preparing for the season keeps getting more difficult, although he's notorious for his lack of urgency in many of his off-seasons/Spring trainings and starts the season off slow. Obviously this season was not a slow start for him, but he didn't have a great spring and took a lot of time off as i remember.

 

I respect his decision to retire. I'd also respect the Red Sox organization to try like hell to get one more year out of him. I doubt the second he retires he sits down in a wheelchair (except maybe as a gag?). I just hope we're as prepared as possible as a team when he does indeed decide to walk away.

 

Agreed.

 

Certainly, if his doctors are telling him that playing one more season may cripple or severely hamper his mobility going forward, then he should totally choose what's right for him. Maybe that's the case, but even if it is, his love for the game might lead to choose taking that risk with the idea that the enjoyment he would get out of one more year might outweigh that risk. It's his choice.

 

Maybe offering much more money would not be that much of an enticement, but I do recall him complaining about his contract in the past. Maybe offering a possible part-time job is not enticing either.

 

My point is why not make a cushy offer and let him decide?

 

Some players still enjoy the game even as they play through pain. It's his choice.

 

Us fans have no say, but I certainly do not "want him to retire".

[moonslav59]

The only position in baseball that's an actual grind is catcher.

 

True. Maybe pitching's a grind to the arm. SS's do a lot of running, even on balls not hit right to them.

 

Even if you look at standing at a position waiting for a ball to be hit to you as a grind, the DH doesn't even have that to deal with.

 

He has batting practice, batting 4-5 times a night, and occasional running or jogging of the bases.

 

I'm not trying to downplay the position to a point where I'm arguing no matter how much pain Papi is in, he should not retire because the job is too easy. I have said over and over, it's up to him, but it seems like some here are implying that I am calling him a wuss for retiring from a cush job.

 

I'm not. I'll totally respect any choice Papi makes, but as a Sox fan, I'm never going to "hope he retires" until he shows me he looks like he can't do it anymore.

 

Could he drop off a cliff and look like an embarrassment next year? Perhaps, but I think that's highly unlikely.

 

Is Curt Schillings 2008 season making $8M to never play the defining moment of his career? Does anyone really think any less of him for thinking he had one more year in him after his nice 2007 season at age 40? He went 3-0 in the playoffs, and all the memories are still good.

 

BTW, Curt had serious foot issues (bloody sock and all) as well and played a much more demanding position for the feet. He was also a big man.

[User Name]

Playing through those foot issues cost him essentially two years and shortened his career.

[Hugh2]

I think just about anyone would delay retirement or come out of retirement for one more year for the right price, and that applies to all ranges of self interest. I say respect Papis decision....if he really wants to come back for one more year he will/should express interest.

 

I really think there is something to be said about a guy who goes out on top of his game.

[southpaw777]

Yes, a DH. They sit on a bench all day and get up 4-5 times to walk to the plate, swing a piece of wood and, for Papi, jog to 1B every now and then. Yes, he takes a lot of batting practice, but it's not like even that is a "grind".

 

I played baseball for over 20 years. I played 2B, CF and pitched. Then, I switched to softball. It was never close to a "grind".

 

Obviously you don't know the meaning of the word "grind".

 

Look, I'm fine with Papi deciding to retire. I never once even implied otherwise. My point was that the Sox should bend over backwards to try and make him feel welcome to return, even at a diminished part-time role, if needed. Of course, Papi might decide playing every other day is not desirable, and say no, but what's the harm in asking? In trying?

 

I also said mentally as well as physically.

Are you friggin kidding me Moon??? Please dont compare your youth and beer league to a 40+ yo who has been training harder than you ever have for the last 20+ years at the highest level and remain one of the best. Add that to the travel, being away from family. Offseason working out as well as in season to stay in shape, batting cages, video tape, charity events, appearences, Spring training, etc., .it ALL takes a toll on your body after 20 years of it. Trying to maintain injuries...If you You think he does nothing but sit on a bench and hit a ball and play 1b every so often then you really have zero idea what these guys do from a young age. OH, LOL if you actually Think your local beer league softball and youth baseball compare to his career in any remote way shape or form then you need a serious wakeup call...

Not trying to sound mean or dispresectful, but i think that comment is kinda ignorant.

Edited June 4, 2016 by southpaw777

[mvp 78]

It's not "kinda" ignorant...

[Spudboy]

[moonslav59]

I think just about anyone would delay retirement or come out of retirement for one more year for the right price, and that applies to all ranges of self interest. I say respect Papis decision....if he really wants to come back for one more year he will/should express interest.

 

I really think there is something to be said about a guy who goes out on top of his game.

 

I don't think management going to Papi and saying something like this as not respecting his decision, "We know you have stated you want to retire, and we respect your choice, but we'd just like to know, if you might be interested in playing one more year. We could offer you $20M, and we're willing to give you 2-3 days off a week, if you feel you need to allow your feet to rest as needed. If you say no, we totally understand and there will never be any hard feeling.

[moonslav59]

I also said mentally as well as physically.

Are you friggin kidding me Moon??? Please dont compare your youth and beer league to a 40+ yo who has been training harder than you ever have for the last 20+ years at the highest level and remain one of the best. Add that to the travel, being away from family. Offseason working out as well as in season to stay in shape, batting cages, video tape, charity events, appearences, Spring training, etc., .it ALL takes a toll on your body after 20 years of it. Trying to maintain injuries...If you You think he does nothing but sit on a bench and hit a ball and play 1b every so often then you really have zero idea what these guys do from a young age. OH, LOL if you actually Think your local beer league softball and youth baseball compare to his career in any remote way shape or form then you need a serious wakeup call...

Not trying to sound mean or dispresectful, but i think that comment is kinda ignorant.

 

Baseball is the easiest physical game in the world. DH'ing is the easiest position in the easiest physical game in the world.

 

I never said there wasn't a mental grind, so assuming I meant that and am ignorant is a miscalculation on your part.

 

I also mentioned that being a DH involved serious batting practice, but even that is not a big physical activity.

 

I have no idea how much pain Papi is in, and how much going to bat and running the bases from time to time affects his feet. I have said if the pain is too great, then it's obvious what he would probably choose to do.

 

We all know many players love the game so much, the enjoyment outweighs the pain of injury. That's Papi's call no doubt, but I see no harm or disrespect in asking, if he'd consider another year. In fact, I see it more as a sign of deep respect, if the offer is presented in the right way, and the dollar amount shows tremendous respect. Papi has said in the past that dollar offers relate to respect, so $25M for a 41 year old DH, is just about the ultimate show of respect.

 

It's always been his call, and I'm not trying to say it isn't or shouldn't be, but again, I see no harm in asking.

[moonslav59]

It's not "kinda" ignorant...

 

Right. It's not even close to ignorant.

[Emp9]

One of the main reasons I like having a DH is because it can prolong careers that would've/could've been cut a little short. It is less demanding. Is Ortiz at that point where even DHing is too demanding? So it seems. He also probably weighed his options taking his legacy into account, endorsement deals (less work-more $) he can do until the end of time, maybe an analyst even? Who knows? Maybe $25M for one more year really wouldn't be worth it for him. It's still a good discussion. I do dream of him winning another WS this season and calling it quits. To me that would be the ultimate send off. A couple nice trade deadline acquisitions... Maybe that happens.

[mvp 78]

Golf is easier than baseball.

[mvp 78]

I like the DH because it is horrible watching pitchers hit.

[User Name]

Baseball is the easiest physical game in the world. DH'ing is the easiest position in the easiest physical game in the world.

 

I'm sorry but I have to ask. Did you actually play baseball at all? Because pitching and catching are two of the most physically demanding positions in any sport, the baseball season makes up for the lack of in-game activity with sheer number of games, and even worse, almost everything in baseball (especially hitting, besides pitching of course) is done in an explosive manner and is conductive to injury. It's not playing running back, but come on.

[User Name]

Also fishing, billiards, curling, golf, and squash sure are tough!

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Also fishing, billiards, curling, golf, and squash sure are tough!

 

I'm guessing that he's never heard of bowling either.

[Kimmi]

Us fans have no say, but I certainly do not "want him to retire".[/b]

 

I don't think anyone "wants" him to retire. What we are saying is that we would rather see Papi retire this season and go out on top, like he deserves, rather than try to hold on too long. There's a difference.

 

How sad is it to watch a once great player trying to continue to play when clearly his time is up? If he did come back next season, and that inevitable drastic decline hits him, it would be really tough for him, management, and the fans to see him struggle everyday, then eventually either moved down in the order, benched, phantom DL'd, or even worse, DFA'd because he is hurting the team. That is not something that I want to see Papi suffer through in his last year of an otherwise great career. I would much rather see him being awesome and having a lot of fun like he is this season. Go out on top, on his terms.

 

Now, I realize that he might be very good next year. But I also realize that it is unlikely he will be as good as he is this year, and it is also quite likely that he will not be very good. It's hard to know, even though he's not showing any signs of drop off right now.

 

I'm guessing the FO has approached him or will before the season ends about playing another year. The decision will ultimately be his. I'm sure everyone here would welcome him back with open arms if he decides to return.

[Kimmi]

I'm guessing that he's never heard of bowling either.

 

What's wrong with bowling?

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball is the easiest physical game in the world.

 

How can you say that, moon. Did you see what happened to Swihart yesterday? And injuries like that happen all the time in baseball. I think baseball is actually one of the hardest sports on the body because it involves a lot of unnatural movements and awkward positions.

[User Name]

And a lot of maximum effort sprints/swings/throws.

[Youk Of The Nation]

What's wrong with bowling?

 

Nothing is wrong with it, it's just another sport that's not as physically demanding as baseball. Hell, my grandmother was in a bowling league until a few years ago. She switched to a lighter ball when she started using her oxygen tank, and only stopped because she couldn't stand up for long periods of time. She could still throw the ball if they allowed people in wheelchairs in her old league.

[Bellhorn04]

Pro bowling does have one similarity to pitching a baseball, because the strike ball in bowling requires a twisting of the wrist that imparts a lot of side-spin.

[S5Dewey]

I don't think anyone "wants" him to retire. What we are saying is that we would rather see Papi retire this season and go out on top, like he deserves, rather than try to hold on too long. There's a difference.

 

How sad is it to watch a once great player trying to continue to play when clearly his time is up? If he did come back next season, and that inevitable drastic decline hits him, it would be really tough for him, management, and the fans to see him struggle everyday, then eventually either moved down in the order, benched, phantom DL'd, or even worse, DFA'd because he is hurting the team. That is not something that I want to see Papi suffer through in his last year of an otherwise great career. I would much rather see him being awesome and having a lot of fun like he is this season. Go out on top, on his terms.

 

Now, I realize that he might be very good next year. But I also realize that it is unlikely he will be as good as he is this year, and it is also quite likely that he will not be very good. It's hard to know, even though he's not showing any signs of drop off right now.

 

Fans tend to remember a player's last year. As i may have said before, I'd rather see a player like Papi who has the opportunity to leave an outstanding legacy go out a year too early rather than a year too late. Even Derek Jeter, Mr. Yankee himself, may have hung around a year too long and he'll be remembered for that almost as much for his Glory Years.

"Yeah, Jeter had some great years on some very good teams and won a handful of rings, but that last year....".

 

Papi can leave now without that "but" at the end of the sentence. Legacy, baby. Legacy.

[Emp9]

I like the DH because it is horrible watching pitchers hit.

 

This is my #1 reason as well😎

[Spudboy]

I like the DH because it is horrible watching pitchers hit.

 

Yup.

 

Intentionally allowing a black hole to bat 3 or so times each game is antithetical.

 

Put someone up that can hit and add to the game.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

What's wrong with bowling?

 

Nothing, just saying it's less physically demanding then baseball.

[moonslav59]

One of the main reasons I like having a DH is because it can prolong careers that would've/could've been cut a little short. It is less demanding. Is Ortiz at that point where even DHing is too demanding? So it seems. He also probably weighed his options taking his legacy into account, endorsement deals (less work-more $) he can do until the end of time, maybe an analyst even? Who knows? Maybe $25M for one more year really wouldn't be worth it for him. It's still a good discussion. I do dream of him winning another WS this season and calling it quits. To me that would be the ultimate send off. A couple nice trade deadline acquisitions... Maybe that happens.

 

I totally get this sentiment, but I think even Papi might be surprised at having his best career OPS year (by 100 points!) at this point in his career. My guess is he probably expected some decline this year, and maybe that played a part in his decision to say he wanted to retire after this year.

 

My point is that even Papi might be looking at his numbers, looking at how much fun it is to be playing this great, and thinking one more year might be more enjoyable than whatever pain he will go through physically.

 

I just want the Sox to make him a fantastic offer and then respect his final decision.

 

Worst case scenario: he says yes and has an awful season or a serious injury. That would be unofrtunate, but it would be up to Papi to weigh the risk of that ending vs the chance of having another season like this or even 75% of this.

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry but I have to ask. Did you actually play baseball at all? Because pitching and catching are two of the most physically demanding positions in any sport, the baseball season makes up for the lack of in-game activity with sheer number of games, and even worse, almost everything in baseball (especially hitting, besides pitching of course) is done in an explosive manner and is conductive to injury. It's not playing running back, but come on.

 

I played baseball, football, basketball and hockey maybe about 300 days a year until I was in my late 20's (mostly baseball and basketball after 21). I played some soccer, raquetball and volleyball as well, but I was talking about the 4 major sports when I said baseball was the "easiest". I guess I was assuming that was implied. Golf, car racing and other mentions are games or hobbies to me- not really sports, but I don't want to get into semantics or arguments about what we should call a sport or not.

 

It's not even close: baseball is by far the easiest sport. Okay, maybe a couple positions are demanding and might be harder than being a placekicker in footb, and if you want to go down that road to prove I was wrong, feel free to go there. Overall, baseball is a cakewalk over any other major sport, especially physically, and that's what we were discussing with Papi and his feet.

I never claimed MLB wasn't a mental grind. As much as I played baseball over my life, I never became a very good hitter. Hitting a round ball going 80+ mph with a rounded bat is an exercise in futility. I marvel at the skills of guys like Papi. I realize it takes work, but the work is not as physically demanding as being great at other major sports.

 

Papi is not a pitcher or a catcher. When he does play in the field, he plays 1B- the second most easy position next to DH. I don't say this to try and minimize the pain Papi might feel just walking to the plate. It was meant to put his situation in perspective.

 

Only Papi and his doctors know just how bad his feet are. Like I've said all along, if they are in that bad of shape, then the argument is essentially over, unless Papi chooses to continue to play through pain due to feeling the enjoyment of the game outweighs the pain. If his pain is as bad as many of you seem to think it is, then I guess he should have retired last year or the year before. This season is evidence that Papi enjoys the game enough to play one more season- at least.

 

I don't understand why my position of wanting us to just offer him a tremendous offer and let him decide has been met with such ferocious opposition.

[moonslav59]

I don't think anyone "wants" him to retire. What we are saying is that we would rather see Papi retire this season and go out on top, like he deserves, rather than try to hold on too long. There's a difference.

 

How sad is it to watch a once great player trying to continue to play when clearly his time is up? If he did come back next season, and that inevitable drastic decline hits him, it would be really tough for him, management, and the fans to see him struggle everyday, then eventually either moved down in the order, benched, phantom DL'd, or even worse, DFA'd because he is hurting the team. That is not something that I want to see Papi suffer through in his last year of an otherwise great career. I would much rather see him being awesome and having a lot of fun like he is this season. Go out on top, on his terms.

 

Now, I realize that he might be very good next year. But I also realize that it is unlikely he will be as good as he is this year, and it is also quite likely that he will not be very good. It's hard to know, even though he's not showing any signs of drop off right now.

 

I'm guessing the FO has approached him or will before the season ends about playing another year. The decision will ultimately be his. I'm sure everyone here would welcome him back with open arms if he decides to return.

 

It would be his choice to weigh the risks vs the possible massive enjoyment of having a similar year to this one so far.

 

The fact is, people here have said "I want him to retire".

 

I'm wondering if BILL805 is on this site.